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PAKISTAN POSITIONING JF-17 FOR GROUND ATTACK ROLE

Hi,

Assad the butcher boy has his way of doing things---& none of them have any finness or artistry in it---.

Pak military is much more experienced than that---. Actually---it is the most experienced in taking action against insurgency and neutering it---.

Just because you have a military and you can kill indiscriminately---does not mean that fighting insurgency is the only solution---a major part of it is to finding ways to resolve the problem---find ways to close the weapons supply lines---making the sides understand that there are no winners in this problem---and only death and destruction---chaos and mayhem---.




Hi,

Are you really stupid---why would I need to write to pentagon---when I had access to the position of power in pakistan---.

What does my post has anything to do with pentagon---are you that big of an imbecile---. I am talking about pak military / pak generals / their bad mistake and you bring in pentagon---are you really that dumb---.
Regretfully my dear friend, what I saw in Yemen not like that; there were a myraid of complexities starting with political interference from Riyadh for decades and failure to allow basic elections. even clearly marked hospitals were deliberately bombed to completely breakdown the civilian population. Food siege etc etc. That was just simply war crimes. By sleeping with GCC Pak would be complicit in the same. Salute them to not joining.
If you do get a chance, volunteer with MSF or Red Cresent. It is a worthy cause but needs guts of steel. I have no words for GCC/KSA except they are criminals of the nth degree and while they will escape justice of this world; there is another court in the life after which they will answer for their crimes - especially Salam and hs monkey brigades.
Let us get back to the jf-17b question at hand.
 
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@Dil Pakistan @MastanKhan you both have made you point but it would have been much better if you could do it without insulting each other!! Is it too much to ask? Why is it so difficult to disagree with each other without any name calling and abuses?


Now please do me a favor, go back to your posts starting from page two, read them and PLEASE edit all insulting remarks towards each other (both your own text and what is there quoted by you). Please do this today as you may not be able to edit these posts later and i will have to delete them all.


None of us want to lose the points made in this debate, it was the foul language that have spoiled everything!!
 
@Dil Pakistan and @MastanKhan put each other on the ignore list and quit making a "tamasha"

I am glad to know there are educated and gifted people on this forum.

I have argued with Mastan Khan before and I can tell you he cannot be changed. Can you imagine being his friend or family? He reminds me of my desi patients who come in telling me what to do and where my medicine is incorrect and their pandoo thinking is correct.

Don’t waste your tome bro... move on.

He is a lost cause.
Personal remarks are not tolerated on this forum!

If you are educated...you wouldnt be talking about another person and taking it personal!

Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people
 
This seems highly unlikely that JF-17 Blk3 would all be duel seaters. PAF would never go for 60+ trainers.
No. they dont need to be dual seats; many prior discussions have noted the second seat area and cover will not be there but will be used for various additions.
 
Anyone know the status of Vixen AESA radar which was on offer to PAF what happen to that offer ....??
@Quwa / @Bilal Khan (Quwa), @Bilal Khan 777 , @Oscar or any other member who cloud update

BTW @Horus some time back hinted about the consideration of Italian AESA .... so which one was on offer Vixen or Grifo ...??
 
Anyone know the status of Vixen AESA radar which was on offer to PAF what happen to that offer ....??
@Quwa / @Bilal Khan (Quwa), @Bilal Khan 777 , @Oscar or any other member who cloud update

BTW @Horus some time back hinted about the consideration of Italian AESA .... so which one was on offer Vixen or Grifo ...??
Grifo-E. GaN based, and lower price vs Vixen.
 
my favorite aircraft to date for ground attack role is Tornado something about that aircraft and it's TFR that just makes me drool, a question to those who know: can we incorporate TFR in JF-17 and will it work in totally unexpected terrain as ours
 
Any specs available about whether it provides wide angle view, tws range etc.

Thanks.
Yes. Page 2.
https://www.leonardocompany.com/documents/20142/3163473/GRIFO_E_MM08942_LQ.PDF.pdf?t=1543843580751

now Vixen is off the table ...??
Yes. The Grifo-E doesn't seem to offer much more in terms of performance vs. the KLJ-7A and LKF601E, but it being GaN-based and cheaper than the Vixen 1000E is interesting.

It was never on. PAF has a good track record with Grifo radars
The Vixen 1000E was on offer during IDEAS 2016, but in 2018, Leonardo offered the Grifo-E as a lower cost alternative.
 
Quwa Premium Excerpt
PAKISTAN POSITIONING JF-17 FOR GROUND ATTACK ROLE
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The Turkish defence electronics supplier Aselsan reportedly said that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has 50 ASELPOD targeting pods on order. The PAF ordered its first batch of eight ASELPODs in 2016, with reports of follow-on orders of unknown quantities. In 2018, Aselsan confirmed that it and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) successfully integrated the ASELPOD to the JF-17 Thunder.

This recent news would confirm that the PAF is not only committed to inducting the ASELPOD, but that it will position the JF-17, its mainstay fighter, as a prominent ground attack asset.

Currently, the PAF has equipped the JF-17 to deploy the 60-100 km Range Extension Kit (REK) or Takbir – i.e., a precision-guided bomb (PGB) kit for MK-80-series general purpose bombs (GPB) – and C-802 anti-ship cruising missile (ASCM). A laser-guided bomb (LGB) should follow the integration of the ASELPOD. In March 2019, the PAF also test-fired a new precision-guided munition of an unknown typev.

With the ASELPOD, the JF-17 can hit fixed and moving ground targets. In terms of the latter, it can use the ASELPOD to designate – or “lase” – a target for its LGBs, even if the target is moving. Similarly, the JF-17 could also, potentially, use laser-guided air-to-ground missiles (AGM) – though it is not known if the PAF is seeking an AGM (akin to the AGM-65 Maverick).

The Case for Repurposing Older JF-17s for Ground Attack Missions

On first thought, it would make sense for the PAF to equip the upcoming JF-17 Block 3s with the ASELPOD. The JF-17 Block 3 will reportedly have a greater payload and, potentially, a dedicated hardpoint for special mission equipment, such as targeting pods, reconnaissance pods, and others.

However, the Block 3 will also be a high-tech asset with more qualities suitable for operating in contested air space, such as an integrated electronic warfare (EW) suite, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, and helmet mounted display and sight (HMD/S) with high off-boresight air-to-air missile.

The Block 3’s main purpose will likely be to shore-up the PAF’s ability to fend-off high-tech threats, such as the Dassault Rafale (albeit, with the need of greater numbers and other supporting assets). However, for ground attack missions, especially in a low-intensity, counterinsurgency (COIN) context, the PAF may rely more heavily on the JF-17 Block 1 and/or Block 2.

There is a limit to the Block 1 and Block-2’s upgrade potential – i.e., they cannot reach true Block 3 levels – and they are, at this stage, older airframes. It could also be the case that the Block 3 has a higher upgrade ceiling or potential due to its structural changes, which the designers likely made to ensure that the fighter could carry an AESA radar, integrated EW suite, and other subsystems from the onset.

Given the PAF’s turn on the JF-17B – i.e., a platform it had intended for only export, and now expanding the PAF’s new JF-17 orders to 76 aircraft – the likely route for additional “high-tech” JF-17s would be to order more of them. In other words, the future mainstay of the PAF fleet (especially if the PAF is unable to acquire another off-the-shelf fighter) would be the JF-17 Block 3/JF-17B and its direct evolutions.

However, moving to the Block 3 does not mean that the Block 1 and Block 2 are any less valuable. To the contrary, they could amount to a significant upgrade for ground attack missions. Having retired the A-5, the PAF lacks a close air support (CAS) asset analogous to the Jaguar. Thus, there may be an opportunity to repurpose older JF-17s for this role, and not only for COIN, but for conventional CAS operations as well.

https://quwa.org/2019/07/01/pakistan-positioning-jf-17-for-ground-attack-role-2/

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A very excellent read. On a side note, something the article didn't mention is that the Block III will also feature bigger and more widened intakes to adjust for new engine and give the jet more speed.

I think it's likely that the Mirages will be replaced by these upgraded Block IIs while for air superiority and to replace F-7P Block IIIs will be inducted.

I am hopeful that with its new design, much more advanced tech, low maintenance cost and price tag, tailoring to fly like a F-16, it will replace the F-16 in international market eventually.

The biggest issue I think for the JF-17 Thunder at the moment is its frame's and body's life. Compared to other jets at same level or above, it is generally half. Not expensive to maintain but hectic to replace and maintain ofcourse overall.

PAF needs to designate more to composite materials as well as PLC management so that it receives the attention and sales globally that it deserves.
Which bigger engine will be used in block 3 ???
 
@Dil Pakistan @MastanKhan you both have made you point but it would have been much better if you could do it without insulting each other!! Is it too much to ask? Why is it so difficult to disagree with each other without any name calling and abuses?


Now please do me a favor, go back to your posts starting from page two, read them and PLEASE edit all insulting remarks towards each other (both your own text and what is there quoted by you). Please do this today as you may not be able to edit these posts later and i will have to delete them all.


None of us want to lose the points made in this debate, it was the foul language that have spoiled everything!!

Hi,

Done---as much as I could. Thank you.
 
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