Pakistan needs to focus & spend more on its education sector which is lagging behind.

[VCheng]

I agree, but there is a fine line between questioning and then prepping someone's mind to go and join BLA/TTP or whatever.

First step is always ideological influence.

Let me remind you the Karachi suicide bomber was a well-read female. We don't have the luxury like other nations to simply keep discussions as online Twitter rhetoric, for us it directly translates into serious destabilisation and terrorism.

Consider the steps taken by Gen Zia, and then by all successive governments, civilian and dictatorships alike, and carefully assess what exactly has the enforcement of the existing ideological conditioning has actually achieved for Pakistan, and then tell us how more of it will actually help. one could easily conclude otherwise based on that half century of experience already.

 

[TheSolution]

Consider the steps taken by Gen Zia, and then by all successive governments, civilian and dictatorships alike, and carefully assess what exactly has the enforcement of the existing ideological conditioning has actually achieved for Pakistan, and then tell us how more of it will actually help. one could easily conclude otherwise based on that half century of experience already.

There doesn't have to be more of  it, there just has to be less or otherwise none of the ideology that makes people like Shari Baloch blow themselves up outside universities in Karachi.

 

[VCheng]

There doesn't have to be more of  it, there just has to be less or otherwise none of the ideology that makes people like Shari Baloch blow themselves up outside universities in Karachi.

As long as the Objectives Resolution is there, Pakistan is going to go downhill. Gen Zia ensured its deterioration actively by growing that fatal poisonous seed into a giant tree. Everyone after him only accelerated the destruction, SNC included. We all can see the toxic fruits of all that just about everywhere in Pakistan today.

 

[_NOBODY_]

I agree, but there is a fine line between questioning and then prepping someone's mind to go and join BLA/TTP or whatever.

First step is always ideological influence.

Let me remind you the Karachi suicide bomber was a well-read female. We don't have the luxury like other nations to simply keep discussions as online Twitter rhetoric, for us it directly translates into serious destabilisation and terrorism.

As long as any entity isn't directly or indirectly promoting terrorism or violence, it should have freedom of speech regardless of how ludicrous its takes may be. However, if an entity starts preaching terrorism or violence then it should be dealt with by any means necessary. An intellectual body is needed to counter the anti-terrorism narratives.

For the record, the biggest counter to such entities is economic prosperity. I mean look at India, look at how much BJP is able to get away with simply because they are delivering on the economic front. It doesn't matter how good the ideals of a state are if it can't deliver on the economic front. This is why our top focus must be to focus on economic development. I would encourage patriotic overseas Pakistanis like you to donate to entities that are doing amazing work for human resource development and intellectual capacity building in Pakistan. I consistently donate to Muzamil Hasan for this, this man is doing incredible work through his podcasts. If you wish to donate to him, you can go to the description of any of his videos to find information on this. There are many others as well who are working on these two these things as well.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Decentralised education is literally the worst idea i've ever heard of. You can disagree with the contents of the cirriculum and we can debate over that, but other than that it is a negative.

Firstly you say that you dont want education to be a business, but then do you expect the government to create a different cirriculum for every other school location? Tf

Also it makes more sense if everyone is taught the same cirriculum, then takes a standardised test, so we can better compare the quality of an individual and his capabilities with his peers across the nation.

This also helps higher education institutions to judge their candidate's capabilities because everyone has taken a standardised test and can be judged equally. This isn't possible if you're taking random different courses and random exams.

This is how it works internationally, and then you have the option to also choose which specific subjects you want to study, but having people study individual cirriculums is pure stupidity and makes you disorganised.

@_NOBODY_ Opinion on this

Decentralised education is fine as long as the curriculum is world-class. For example, if student A has studied IB and student B has done O & A levels, both of them can apply to the top universities in the world as long as they good grades. In Pakistan, universities accept O & A levels from multiple boards, American High School Diploma, Foundation and IB. All of these curriculums are many times better than our curriculums. As long as the universities only accept curriculums that are deemed world-class then things should be fine. In this day and age, people can easily get an education online for free, so apart from financial issues, preparing for any of these boards is not difficult at all. If you don't want this then let there be a standardized test for applying to universities like SAT and AP in the US.

 

[Erieye]

Decentralised education is fine as long as the curriculum is world-class. For example, if student A has studied IB and student B has done O & A levels, both of them can apply to the top universities in the world as long as they good grades. In Pakistan, universities accept O & A levels from multiple boards, American High School Diploma, Foundation and IB. All of these curriculums are many times better than our curriculums. As long as the universities only accept curriculums that are deemed world-class then things should be fine. In this day and age, people can easily get an education online for free, so apart from financial issues, preparing for any of these boards is not difficult at all. If you don't want this then let there be a standardized test for applying to universities like SAT and AP in the US.

I agree with this, but my interpretation of his message was complete decentralisation, he opposed national cirriculums entirely, and wanted every education insititution to teach their own thing and have their own exam.

To me the above is kind of a foolish suggestion to be honest, because it's counterproductive and disorganised.

But I agree with your suggestion, you can't exactly stop private institutions offering other world-wide cirriculums from operating anyway, plus I don't see that as a problem since they are of high-quality anyway, but my point is we also require a domestic one for Pakistan with a similar set up to the US/British/Chinese one like you mentioned, just so we can better compare the capabilities of every student across the board using a standardised test, and will also make it a lot more easier for univerisities too for picking candidates.

Most universities accept different kind of cirriculums just as long as they are verified to be of high quality, so domestic ones belonging to the country, and also international ones.

 

[TheSolution]

If you don't want this then let there be a standardized test for applying to universities like SAT and AP in the US.

There should be both actually, meaning accept our domestic standardised system, but also the ability to apply using international cirriculums that are well recognised and high quality.

So Pakistan can have it's own centralised cirriculum system alongside standardised testing across the country, which can be used for universities to gauge the capabilities and value of an individual, but they can also apply using others.

Doesn't Pakistan have its own centralised cirriculum system already?

 

[_NOBODY_]

I agree with this, but my interpretation of his message was complete decentralisation, he opposed national cirriculums entirely, and wanted every education insititution to teach their own thing and have their own exam.

To me the above is kind of a foolish suggestion to be honest, because it's counterproductive and disorganised.

But I agree with your suggestion, you can't exactly stop private institutions offering other world-wide cirriculums from operating anyway, plus I don't see that as a problem since they are of high-quality anyway, but my point is we also require a domestic one for Pakistan with a similar set up to the US/British/Chinese one like you mentioned, just so we can better compare the capabilities of every student across the board using a standardised test, and will also make it a lot more easier for univerisities too for picking candidates.

Most universities accept different kind of cirriculums just as long as they are verified to be of high quality, so domestic ones belonging to the country, and also international ones.

I agree, a strong standardized test like SAT will force the people managing these boards to make sure that their syllabus is up to date. This will automatically improve the syllabus of the national boards.

 

[epebble]

But they do. For their kids of course. Not for every kid in the nation. Just look at IK as an example. Or his own kids even.

IK's sons don't appear to have pursued education with gusto. They might have obtained some paper degrees.

Bristol University says it doesn’t offer Islamic History degree after Imran Khan’s son claim – The Pakistan Daily

Pakistan Latest News. The Pakistan Daily. Latest news from Pakistan. Imran Khan. Afghanistan. Nawaz Sharif. Pakistan Army.

thepakistandaily.com

 

[Erieye]

I agree, a strong standardized test like SAT will force the people managing these boards to make sure that their syllabus is up to date. This will automatically improve the syllabus of the national boards.

Plus decentralisation makes no sense, because how do I compare one student's value to another stundet's, if they studied a completely different syllabus and took an entirely different exam. Now imagine an entire sea of applicants claiming to have studied random syllabus' from different places with different exams. You can't properly compare them.

It means at the end they'll still have to sit an entrace exam similar to the SAT to be considered for entry. But then this defeats the purpose of decentralisation, because you wasted your time learning about random things from your decentralised instiution, but at the end you have to sit an exam according to a certain syllabus, which you should have done from the beginning.

So overall it's better to just have a strongly centralised SAT-like system that is up to date, and of high quality. And all universities in the country can use this to measure the quality of all applicants. And schools can focus their syllabus/cirriculum around it to prepare their students.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Plus decentralisation makes no sense, because how do I compare one student's value to another stundet's, if they studied a completely different syllabus and took an entirely different exam. Now imagine an entire sea of applicants claiming to have studied random syllabus' from different places with different exams. You can't properly compare them.

It means at the end they'll still have to sit an entrace exam similar to the SAT to be considered for entry. But then this defeats the purpose of decentralisation, because you wasted your time learning about random things from your decentralised instiution, but at the end you have to sit an exam according to a certain syllabus, which you should have done from the beginning.

So overall it's better to just have a strongly centralised SAT-like system that is up to date, and of high quality. And all universities in the country can use this to measure the quality of all applicants. And schools can focus their syllabus/cirriculum around it to prepare their students.

I will partially disagree as all of these world-class boards are almost the same but they aren't the same in their approach. The syllabus of a standardized test should only mention what topics need to be prepared for the test that's it. It's up to the individuals to prepare for the test in whatever way they find most suitable. No syllabus should mainly be constructed to pass a standardized test.

 

[VCheng]

IK's sons don't appear to have pursued education with gusto. They might have obtained some paper degrees.

Bristol University says it doesn’t offer Islamic History degree after Imran Khan’s son claim – The Pakistan Daily

Pakistan Latest News. The Pakistan Daily. Latest news from Pakistan. Imran Khan. Afghanistan. Nawaz Sharif. Pakistan Army.

thepakistandaily.com

Oh they will pass in third division from some place, just like their famous father.

 

[Erieye]

I will partially disagree as all of these world-class boards are almost the same but they aren't the same in their approach. The syllabus of a standardized test should only mention what topics need to be prepared for the test that's it. It's up to the individuals to prepare for the test in whatever way they find most suitable. No syllabus should mainly be constructed to pass a standardized test.

Yes but the syllabus' will all largely be incredibly similar - and this is because they are all preparing for the same standardised test. This is not really 100% decentralised because it's dervied from the same cirriculum the exam is based upon.

I think this is how it works in the US - they all prepare for the same standardised SAT exams, hence they pretty much learn the same stuff but just syllabus is taught in their own way. not 100% sure here

 

[ACE OF HEARTS]

Except Urdu, Islamiat and Pakistan Studies, all other subjects should be OUTSOURCED to the UK Education system IMMEDIATELY. AKA the Cambridge System.

Part of the cost to be borne by GoP and donors who would happily promote western system of education.

Ministry of Education should become a FEDERAL SUBJECT because emphasis is more on local / provincial preferences rather than National priorities.

THERE IS NO IMMEDIATE FIX TO THE LOCAL EDUCATION PROBLEM / SYSTEM.

WE NEED TO TAKE HELP FROM ABROAD.

 

[Ssan]

Bro, read the syllabus and then compare it to British O & A levels and then tell what isn't bad about it. Read the two articles that I have posted down below. I am not a fan of Dawn but they are 100% correct in their criticism of the SNC. The vast majority of the SNC is all about memorization. There's even less focus on science in SNC as compared to the current syllabus. Instead of going all out in the promotion of science, these retards chose to place even lesser emphasis on it. This SNC turned me from a fan of IK to a hater. It is insane to me that a guy who went to Aitchison College and Oxford University endorses this pathic curriculum.

DISSECTING THE SINGLE NATIONAL CURRICULUM

A closer review of the recently-announced education policy material throws up many issues of concern.

www.dawn.com

A great leap backward

Courses appear to reinforce a closed mindset and have nothing to do with the requirements of a modern education system.

www.dawn.com

Can you please link the syllabus here? Frankly, I would put no weight into whatever Dawn says

I just finished reading those articles but honestly I see a bigger problem in their criticism, while it requires a much bigger emphasis and focus on STEM, they seem to be against having a single national curriculum at all, and want separate provincial curriculums. They see it as wrong...

They also seem to be strictly against the "nationalism" it apparently enforces, and apparently it prevents critical thinking? What does this even mean? Can Pakistan not present its own historical and national narrative to its people?

What does critical thinking even mean in this context... it's as if they want people to question the existence of Pakistan and indirectly promote ethno-separatism. I seriously feel they may be partially funded by certain actors.

In my opinion by preventing a national curriculum, and disguising questioning the existence of a state or even perceived nationalism as preventing critical thinking, it feels these people don't want social/national cohesion. They may be genuine in their opinion, but without social cohesion Pakistan will be ideologically divided and it will undoubtedly fuel ethno-separatism. In Pakistan this translates into terrorism and ethnic riots.

Pakistan is an ideological entity to begin with, without national cohesion and at least common ideological grounds regarding Pakistan, it won't exist. So these people to me seem to be funded by certain actors or aren't very bright.

Honestly given how deep certain foreign elements are operating in Pakistan, I do think they've been prodded to say such things.

Yes when I read Dawn articles, it is clear they are against nationalism in general but have a certain vitriol against religion being part of that nationalism. Clearly they are speaking from point of ideology- not of impartiality.

Those articles should be completely disregarded in this discussion.

If someone posts the syllabus, I would love to go through it.