Featured Pakistan Navy Type 054AP Frigates - Update, News & Discussion

[HaMoTZeMaS]

Contract signed for two but will have 4 by 2021. What am I missing? 2 built in Karachi?

Yes I heard Gen. Amjad talked in his video saying That Pak might be building two through ToT
This will be Huge for Pak experience vise and for future challenges

Also, we might be learning to overhaul the ships just like our fighter Jets

Can we please leave the name debate out of thisPLEASE!!!!!!
Regards
A

such kind of waste of time for debating Kawwa Halal ha ya Haram

 

[iLION12345_1]

Albratos is smaller lighter and with simple launcher
Hq16 simply wouldnt fit a sub 3000 tone ship without compromising other stuff
While albratos was built for smaller sub 2000 tones ship

HQ-16 is bigger because it’s old and outdated, Albatros wasn’t built for smaller ships, it’s just newer and better. It has longer range, faster speeds and more accuracy.

Contract signed for two but will have 4 by 2021. What am I missing? 2 built in Karachi?

The contact signed was for 4, all 4 were built in China. Pakistan got ToT for Babur class instead, 2 of those were built in Turkey, the other 2 are being built here.

Yes I heard Gen. Amjad talked in his video saying That Pak might be building two through ToT
This will be Huge for Pak experience vise and for future challenges

Also, we might be learning to overhaul the ships just like our fighter Jets

such kind of waste of time for debating Kawwa Halal ha ya Haram

 

[ziaulislam]

HQ-16 is bigger because it’s old and outdated, Albatros wasn’t built for smaller ships, it’s just newer and better. It has longer range, faster speeds and more accuracy.

The contact signed was for 4, all 4 were built in China. Pakistan got ToT for Babur class instead, 2 of those were built in Turkey, the other 2 are being built here.

Say what ever you want but there is an interview of the developer of albratos cleatly stating how was it SPECIFICALLY design for smaller ships, the New cold launch system and everything else... was purely design for smaller ships.

Remeber most users still prefer hot launch but smaller ships have issues like protecting the launch area from the bloom.

Its an interesting/informative video..

Hq 16 has new upgraded versions but was build for heavier chinese ships

 

[iLION12345_1]

Say what ever you want but there is an interview of the developer of albratos cleatly stating how was it SPECIFICALLY design for smaller ships, the New cold launch system and everything else... was purely design for smaller ships.

Remeber most users still prefer hot launch but smaller ships have issues like protecting the launch area from the bloom.

Its an interesting/informative video..

Hq 16 has new upgraded versions but was build for heavier chinese ships

Do some basic research brother, HQ-16 has no new versions. There’s only ever been one naval version of HQ-16 and that’s the HQ-16A, it’s getting old by this point, China is apparently working on a new version but it’s not ready yet. The bigger Chinese ships all use HQ-9 and not HQ-16 for a reason. All the new Chinese destroyers have switched to HQ-9.

Bottom line is, CAMM-ER/Albatross NG is just simply better than HQ-16A and that has nothing to do with the ships size.

 

[ziaulislam]

Do some basic research brother, HQ-16 has no new versions. There’s only ever been one naval version of HQ-16 and that’s the HQ-16A, it’s getting old by this point, China is apparently working on a new version but it’s not ready yet. The bigger Chinese ships all use HQ-9 and not HQ-16 for a reason. All the new Chinese destroyers have switched to HQ-9.

Bottom line is, CAMM-ER/Albatross NG is just simply better than HQ-16A and that has nothing to do with the ships size.

Bottom line is you think chinese are dumb and guy who is media presentor for alberatos is an idiot..
Typical mindset

 

[S.Y.A]

Bottom line is you think chinese are dumb

he isnt saying that, he is simply saying that hq16 were developed in an another time, and were not meant to be a primary weapon, and hence lack the bells and whistles of one.

 

[Shotgunner51]

you think chinese are dumb

Bro, perhaps we are LOL! Navy may be dumb enough not to make sea-based version of HQ-16C which already is in active duty with army for some years, I can't be sure though.

By the way HQ-16 series serve along HQ-9 series in layered air defense, similar doctrine for army formations and naval task fleets, just that navy needs separate and bigger ship to house the bigger HQ-9. If the fleet carry out mission closer to shore aka within combat radius of peer land-based forces then no HQ-9 needed, HQ-16 will suffice.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Bottom line is you think chinese are dumb and guy who is media presentor for alberatos is an idiot..
Typical mindset

Let me fix that, bottom line is you’re an idiot who doesn’t know the first thing about any of this technology and seems to think I’m anti-Chinese. There, much better.

Bro, perhaps we are LOL! Navy may be dumb enough not to make sea-based version of HQ-16C which already is in active duty with army for some years, I can't be sure though.

By the way HQ-16 series serve along HQ-9 series in layered air defense, similar doctrine for army formations and naval task fleets, just that navy needs separate and bigger ship to house the bigger HQ-9. If the fleet carry out mission closer to shore aka with combat radius of peer land-based forces then no HQ-9 needed, HQ-16 will suffice.

HQ-16C is unfortunately not in service yet (the improved Army version is HQ-16B, while according to some sources HQ-16C will be the improved naval one). There were rumors/news of a test a couple of years back and It was reported to be in development by some reputable sources, but I don’t have anything concrete to show me that it’s in service.
HQ-16A is still used on all PLAN ships that use the type, keep in mind I’m not calling HQ-16 bad, I’m calling it old, everything gets outdated in the military tech world, obviously China will make a new version which is among the best in class, as HQ-16 was when it was new.

For PLAN not having HQ-16C yet isn’t a big deal given their air defense is so layered as you mentioned, to them 054As with Hq-16s are just support ships. They have been focusing their money and development where it matters, on HQ-9 and the destroyers it’s mounted on. If PLAN does see a future for its frigates (as some think they do, and some think they don’t) and 054B is to be a reality, we will almost definitely see china use HQ-16C on it, as well as several other upgrades like it’s radars and ECM (two things PN does seem to have focused on particularly).

he isnt saying that, he is simply saying that hq16 were developed in an another time, and were not meant to be a primary weapon, and hence lack the bells and whistles of one.

Thank you, someone gets it. This is the sad part about this forum, the moment you say something coming out of China isn’t the best technology ever you’re hounded by both Chinese bots and Pakistani fanboys who think China can do no wrong and makes the best of everything, of course such people are a minority but they make both the good and well informed Chinese members as well as the Pakistani ones look bad.

It’s funny how many people think me and some others (Akh112 comes to mind) are anti-Chinese just because we point out the flaws in Chinese equipment, I’d do the exact same with stuff coming out of any country, and I’ve often praised Chinese technology. But eh, I’m tired of fighting my way through the crowds.

 

[GiantPanda]

If PLAN does see a future for its frigates (as some think they do, and some think they don’t) and 054B is to be a reality, we will almost definitely see china use HQ-16C on it, as well as several other upgrades like it’s radars and ECM (two things PN does seem to have focused on particularly).

China is still building Type 054As for PLAN, the first two of a new batch (up to 20) are already launched.

So whatever happens to the next gen frigate, 054A will be supported in China for a very long time to come.

 

[araz]

Let me fix that, bottom line is you’re an idiot who doesn’t know the first thing about any of this technology and seems to think I’m anti-Chinese. There, much better.

HQ-16C is unfortunately not in service yet (the improved Army version is HQ-16B, while according to some sources HQ-16C will be the improved naval one). There were rumors/news of a test a couple of years back and It was reported to be in development by some reputable sources, but I don’t have anything concrete to show me that it’s in service.
HQ-16A is still used on all PLAN ships that use the type, keep in mind I’m not calling HQ-16 bad, I’m calling it old, everything gets outdated in the military tech world, obviously China will make a new version which is among the best in class, as HQ-16 was when it was new.

For PLAN not having HQ-16C yet isn’t a big deal given their air defense is so layered as you mentioned, to them 054As with Hq-16s are just support ships. They have been focusing their money and development where it matters, on HQ-9 and the destroyers it’s mounted on. If PLAN does see a future for its frigates (as some think they do, and some think they don’t) and 054B is to be a reality, we will almost definitely see china use HQ-16C on it, as well as several other upgrades like it’s radars and ECM (two things PN does seem to have focused on particularly).

Thank you, someone gets it. This is the sad part about this forum, the moment you say something coming out of China isn’t the best technology ever you’re hounded by both Chinese bots and Pakistani fanboys who think China can do no wrong and makes the best of everything, of course such people are a minority but they make both the good and well informed Chinese members as well as the Pakistani ones look bad.

It’s funny how many people think me and some others (Akh112 comes to mind) are anti-Chinese just because we point out the flaws in Chinese equipment, I’d do the exact same with stuff coming out of any country, and I’ve often praised Chinese technology. But eh, I’m tired of fighting my way through the crowds.

Hi
I have never seen you angry and making a personal attack. So what brought that on!!!!? Anyways I have read the whole debate and tend to agree with you. I also agree with your notion that the Chinese lag behind in this field as they are currently concentrating on HQ9s and 052/055s.
Cool down young man and relay the information that you have. People who read fora fan sift through gems and Carbon and your message gets through. Interestingly if the 054Ps have a more advanced FCR this might point to the system being upgraded as newer tech becomes available or we find the "jugaar" in the form of a hybrid with induced genes from the West. This might be a reason why the Babar induction and subsequent developments are so important. Currently it may not be possible for us to manufacture the whole system but building the armaments might be a possibility for network wide use. This may produce the economy of scale one needs to think of. I 2ould also be looking at what the PAF procures to see whether some form of harmony can be achieved. A few thoughts here( purely my own) for your consideration and elaboration.
Kind regards
A
PS: moving on rather than bashing your head against the wall is always a wiser move.

 

[serenity]

The HQ-16 for navy can also be used in anti-ship role. Not every consideration is for fighting against top tier military navy like US.

Type 054A was sent on many Africa region missions for anti-piracy and escort missions. The HQ-16 has a heavy warhead and can do both ballistic attack on land targets or as secondary anti-ship missile. All SAM can perform secondary missions as anti-surface but some are more flexible and suitable for these secondary roles.

As SAM it is getting old but due to larger frame it can be easily upgraded to be 100km or more range and much more powerful electronics and more electronics than can be fitted into something smaller.

PLAN uses a packable missile in larger universal vertical cell system so each launch cell fits four SAM instead of one HQ-9. All larger surface ships use the larger type and do not use HQ-16.

HQ-16 is basically only for Type 054A which are used either as anti submarine role or as limited fighting against low tier threats. It was not designed to have the larger launch system and the frigate does not have the depth for those launchers. It can only use HQ-16 as largest SAM unless future modification for the new medium range SAM on larger launchers referred to as the triple 5 missile.

So basically Type 054A for now can only have HQ-16 as a medium range SAM and it must have some air defence for at least self protection. The HQ-16 did not receive as much upgrading and new developments as compared to HQ-9 due to limit of the platform as a smaller and shorter ranged missile also as a less useful missile. But it is good enough for the role of air defence for Type 054A itself and as a secondary anti-surface role.

HQ-16 being so large can also be upgraded with new rocket engine and seekers if they want but there is not as much urgency since PLAN's main SAM is the HQ-9 and development energy was all directed to new medium range missile the triple 5.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Hi
I have never seen you angry and making a personal attack. So what brought that on!!!!? Anyways I have read the whole debate and tend to agree with you. I also agree with your notion that the Chinese lag behind in this field as they are currently concentrating on HQ9s and 052/055s.
Cool down young man and relay the information that you have. People who read fora fan sift through gems and Carbon and your message gets through. Interestingly if the 054Ps have a more advanced FCR this might point to the system being upgraded as newer tech becomes available or we find the "jugaar" in the form of a hybrid with induced genes from the West. This might be a reason why the Babar induction and subsequent developments are so important. Currently it may not be possible for us to manufacture the whole system but building the armaments might be a possibility for network wide use. This may produce the economy of scale one needs to think of. I 2ould also be looking at what the PAF procures to see whether some form of harmony can be achieved. A few thoughts here( purely my own) for your consideration and elaboration.
Kind regards
A
PS: moving on rather than bashing your head against the wall is always a wiser move.

Thank you for the advice and sorry for my anger.
I personally believe China will soon develop the HQ-16C and will focus on its frigates more in a few years once it has built a sizeable fleet of destroyers, and PN will obviously from such Chinese advancements too. Our F22Ps will be needing MLUs soon and our 054As will also need upgrades in the future, Any new technology PLAN mounts on its frigates will find its way into Pakistani ships as well.

as for PAFs systems, An Italian Package for SAMP/T was revealed recently, PAF would be very interested in Acquiring those SAMs, I wonder how that will work with the Babur and especially the upcoming Jinnah class.

 

[Tank131]

Albratos is smaller lighter and with simple launcher
Hq16 simply wouldnt fit a sub 3000 tone ship without compromising other stuff
While albratos was built for smaller sub 2000 tones ship

Oh i 100% agree. Thats why I mentioned the thai frigate as a template on how to marry chinese platforms with western equipment. The C28A of Algeria also uses a Smart S mk2 while using all other chinese systems (its basically a slightly more advanced F-22P). The Albatross NG with Sylver A50 has been my preferred system for all PN ships as it gives a medium to long range missile which csn be quad-packed in VLS format. A 12-16 cell VLS could be equippied with 48 - 64 CAMM-ER if they utilize they Sylver A-50. Even 12-16 CAMM-ER without A-50 is a huge upgrade over the FM90.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Let me fix that, bottom line is you’re an idiot who doesn’t know the first thing about any of this technology and seems to think I’m anti-Chinese. There, much better.

HQ-16C is unfortunately not in service yet (the improved Army version is HQ-16B, while according to some sources HQ-16C will be the improved naval one). There were rumors/news of a test a couple of years back and It was reported to be in development by some reputable sources, but I don’t have anything concrete to show me that it’s in service.
HQ-16A is still used on all PLAN ships that use the type, keep in mind I’m not calling HQ-16 bad, I’m calling it old, everything gets outdated in the military tech world, obviously China will make a new version which is among the best in class, as HQ-16 was when it was new.

For PLAN not having HQ-16C yet isn’t a big deal given their air defense is so layered as you mentioned, to them 054As with Hq-16s are just support ships. They have been focusing their money and development where it matters, on HQ-9 and the destroyers it’s mounted on. If PLAN does see a future for its frigates (as some think they do, and some think they don’t) and 054B is to be a reality, we will almost definitely see china use HQ-16C on it, as well as several other upgrades like it’s radars and ECM (two things PN does seem to have focused on particularly).

Thank you, someone gets it. This is the sad part about this forum, the moment you say something coming out of China isn’t the best technology ever you’re hounded by both Chinese bots and Pakistani fanboys who think China can do no wrong and makes the best of everything, of course such people are a minority but they make both the good and well informed Chinese members as well as the Pakistani ones look bad.

It’s funny how many people think me and some others (Akh112 comes to mind) are anti-Chinese just because we point out the flaws in Chinese equipment, I’d do the exact same with stuff coming out of any country, and I’ve often praised Chinese technology. But eh, I’m tired of fighting my way through the crowds.

Good points!

 

[Shotgunner51]

Type 054A which are used either as anti submarine role

Yes 054A is PLAN's dedicated ASW (and mine coutermeasure) warship, its role in any task fleet/group is more about dealing with targets under water not above. But 054AP obviosuly plays different role in PN fleet, it will be more demanding on AD performance.

Good points you have made here, the bigger framework of HQ-16 gives it more flexibility in upgrading (new seekers/rocket motor, new propellant, etc) or retasking (e.g. land attack). Perhaps the "Triple Five" project may also extend its compatibility with 054AP's VLS. Given PLAN is also expanding their fleet of 054A, more efforts from both sides (manufacturer of HQ-16 aka SAST, plus a missile developer in Pakistan) could be poured into arsenal associated with this platform.