Featured Pakistan Navy Type 054AP Frigates - Update, News & Discussion

[Akh1112]

It’s a Babur missile renamed.

you dont just rename, theyre different missiles with different mission sets. They have different modes of operating due to the different mission sets.

 

[m52k85]

China selling advanced warships to Pakistan is bad news for India – and America

View attachment 792183
Tom Fowdy
is a British writer and analyst of politics and international relations with a primary focus on East Asia.

10 Nov, 2021 07:56
View attachment 792181
China has sold Pakistan a state of the art frigate

Reuters

As the first frigate for Islamabad’s navy was launched this week, Beijing sent a statement of intent that it has various ways and means to stop the US and its allies encircling it.

Over the past several years, India and China have increasingly become geopolitical competitors. While the Galwan Valley border clash last year was epitomized as the biggest trigger, the mutual distrust runs much deeper and wider, not least as the United States has used India as a strategic counterweight to China's growing power, as part of its ‘Indo-Pacific’ strategy.

In response, Beijing has solidified its economic, strategic and military partnership with Pakistan, India's primary adversary.

While China and India continue to trade at a high level, surpassing $100 billion recently, this strategic game is firmly locked in place, and the newest development affirms this.

It has tilted from China feigning neutrality on India-Pakistan disputes, to it being much more explicit in backing Islamabad against New Delhi. Yesterday, China's state run tabloid the Global Times announced that Beijing had “delivered to Pakistan the largest and most advanced warship China has ever exported,” selling them a Type 054A/P frigate built by the China State Shipbuilding Corporation Limited (CSSC).

The PNS Tughril is the first of four frigates being constructed for the Pakistan Navy. The ship is a highly capable platform with large surface-to-surface, surface-to-air and underwater firepower, as well as possessing stealth and surveillance capabilities.

While Pakistan has long been integrated with China's military-industrial complex, this naval deal marks a new milestone, not only in the message it sends to India, but also in being yet another step Beijing is taking to offset Western efforts of maritime military containment around it. These efforts were accelerated with the launch of the AUKUS nuclear submarine deal earlier this year. In doing so, Pakistan's contribution to this contest now cannot be ignored.

On paper, the People's Republic of China has only one true ‘treaty ally’ – a country it guarantees to defend militarily – and that is North Korea, even though its relationship with Pyongyang has not functioned as a complete alliance since the end of the Cold War.

Beyond this, Beijing has maintained a longstanding foreign policy tradition of ‘non-alignment’, which crystalized during the Sino-Soviet split in the 1950s and 1960s and saw Mao Zedong pivot to support the developing world. In the decades since, China has maintained this position, at least at face value, in an effort to not antagonize the United States (which worked for a long period) and to not divide the world into dangerous Cold War blocs.

However, the world is changing. Some commentators, such as Chinese-American political scientistMinxin Pei, have argued that the inauguration of initiatives like AUKUS meant China would “lose” an arms race.

The US has indeed attempted to rally allies against Beijing anyway, with the specific focus being in the maritime sphere, with the ‘Quad’ grouping of India, Australia, Japan and the UK. All of this has involved ramping up naval exercises in the South China Sea and around China's periphery. With China not having as many formal allies, and Beijing’s foreign policy anxiety of ‘encirclement’, the key strategic question for their policymakers has been, “How do we respond to this strategic reality in the maritime domain?”

It is China’s emerging response to this question that shows that commentators such as Pei are being short-sighted. Beijing has moved to utilize a growing number of differing strategic partnerships, inviting other countries into the game to focus on countering specific adversaries where there is a common interest.

For example, this included its first ever joint maritime patrol with Russia last month around Japan. Few contemplated that China would also play the ‘Pakistan card’, giving New Delhi and Washington pause for thought in the western Indian Ocean. The relationship between Beijing and Pakistan, which is often known as ‘China's Iron brother’ is a formal alliance in all but name, tailored for power projection, yet informalized for strategic flexibility.

Away from the military sphere, the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor will become a primary strategic and commercial route to bypass the Indian subcontinent, access the Red Sea and make China's supply routes less vulnerable to maritime attack in the East, and to avoid being “cut off” during any conflict.

Pakistan is a very important military counterweight to India. While the country is regarded in the West for being poor and often unstable, it is wrong to call it weak. Sometimes, the size comparison with an even larger India can make it seem weaker than it is. Pakistan is a nuclear power with the world's sixth largest army and a population of over 220 million. If China can succeed in developing it, it has more economic potential than many countries in the West. And its long running conflicts with India make it almost indispensable to Beijing.

Beijing is drawing in specific quasi-allies, for specific purposes in pushing back against the US-led coalition. Traditionally, Pakistan is a land power, due to the strategic realities of its wars with India in the disputed Jammu & Kashmir territories of the northeast. For a country of its size, Pakistan's navy is tiny. It has just two destroyers, five frigates, and two corvettes. Bar some submarines, the rest are just patrol boats.

The UK's Royal Navy has two aircraft carriers, six destroyers and 12 frigates, while India has more than 150 ships. So what is China's plan? It’s to help build up Islamabad’s navy as a regionally targeted strategic counterweight that ensures that India, the US, and its allies do not gain hegemony over the western Indian ocean. Beijing can then focus its own resources on the South and East China Seas and Taiwan straits, while drafting in other players.

The trend is quite clear. If the US is going to encircle China with foreign navies, then China will seek to counter that by not just building up its own navy, but also enticing other countries to do so too in their areas of interest.

It's easy to dismiss this week’s news as no big deal, ‘China sold a ship to Pakistan, so what’, but it's certainly not true. It marks a strategic shift by Beijing to sell bigger and stronger state-of-the-art ships to de facto allies; it was not willing to do so in the past but circumstances have changed. The more China arms and builds up Pakistan, the more difficult it becomes for New Delhi to focus on joining containment efforts against Beijing, and the weaker its geopolitical hand becomes, as it is bogged down in its own neighbourhood.

For now, it is uncertain as to whether China can upgrade alliances with any other countries, bar its partnership with Russia. Attempting to do so with Iran would rock the boat regionally in the Middle East; they are likewise prohibited from doing so with North Korea because of UN sanctions. But using its informal method of technically non-aligned, strategic partnerships, Beijing has found an answer to the US-led militarization against it, while it continues to ramp up its own capabilities.

China selling advanced warships to Pakistan is bad news for India – and America

The article would have made sense if China were selling destroyers to Pakistan. These ships are a big step-up for Pakistan's naval capability but hardly anything significant in the big boys' navy. Serious navies have managed to equip their frigates with 100 km+ SAMs etc

 

[HAIDER]

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan on Monday commissioned the first of four Type 054A/P frigates during a ceremony at the Hudong Zhonghua Shipbuilding yard in Shanghai, China.

Named Tughril, the frigate and its sister ships are the most powerful surface vessels planned under Pakistan’s naval modernization program, meant to redress a conventional imbalance with India.


Pakistan’s ambassador to China, Moin Ul-Haq, said in a Navy news release that the frigates will strengthen the service’s ability to respond to maritime challenges, ensure seaward defense, and maintain peace, stability and the regional balance of power.

Ul-Haq also praised China State Shipbuilding Corporation, China Shipbuilding Trading Company, China Ship Development and Design Center, and Hudong Zhonghua Shipbuilding, as well as the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy for ensuring the frigate’s timely delivery amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

The Pakistan Navy did not respond to Defense News when asked if the remaining frigates’ deliveries were on schedule.


Pakistan became the ship design’s first foreign customer under a 2017 deal for two Type 054A/P frigates, with two more ordered in 2018, with deliveries to begin in 2021. They are the most powerful Chinese warships exported to date.

The Type 054A/P is a Pakistan-specific variant equipped with the SR2410C long-range and Type 517/SUR17B air-surveillance radars. Previous reports speculated they would be armed with a supersonic anti-ship missile and/or Pakistan’s Harbah anti-ship, land-attack cruise missile.

However, Richard Fisher, a senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, told Defense News the speculation can be put aside with the unveiling of a Pakistani ship-launched ballistic missile, dubbed P282.

“Imagery revealed during the commissioning of Tughril confirms that the ‘P282′ is the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) CM-401 hypersonic-speed capable anti-ship ballistic missile,” Fisher said. The CM-401 is a short-range ballistic missile that can maneuver to avoid interception and can allegedly travel at Mach 6.


Highlighting the flexibility of the Type 054A/P, Fisher said the Tughril is the “first Chinese export warship to feature a 32-cell vertical launch system that can be armed with an array of anti-aircraft missiles, ship and land-attack cruise missiles and anti-submarine missiles, as they are on PLA Navy Type 054A frigates.”

The Type 054A/P also carries HHQ-16 medium-range air defense missiles that provide an area defense capability. Pakistan has experienced a capability gap since its lease ran out with the United States for four American Brooke-class frigates in 1994.

Pakistan’s four F-22P Zulfiquar (Type 053H3-derivative) frigates are incapable of dealing with modern missile threats, but might receive upgrades with the fielding of the Type-054A/Ps.

Tom Waldwyn, a naval expert at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said the Type 054A/P ships “will be a considerable improvement … particularly in terms of [anti-submarine warfare] capability” over the 1970s-era ex-British Type 21 frigates that Pakistan acquired in the 1990s. The Type 21s will now undergo decommissioning.


However, he added, India’s Navy “maintains a significant numbers and capability advantage over Pakistan” despite its own programs having suffered “significant delays” and the service’s spread-out deployment among several coastal areas.

Furthermore, the “potentially more lucrative Indian market” had lured European, Russian and American firms away from supplying Pakistan, essentially forcing Islamabad to rely on Beijing for defense equipment, he said.

Though this may have hampered Pakistan’s ability to acquire cutting-edge defense equipment, Waldwyn said the delivery of eight Type 039B Yuan/Hangor II-class submarines will “enlarge the fleet and be a significant capability improvement, particularly if they are fitted with long-range cruise missiles.”

Citing Pakistan’s tests of the submarine-launched Harbah nuclear-capable cruise missile, he said their service entry “would be far more significant to the strategic balance than a handful of new frigates.”

Pakistan receives new Chinese-made frigate. How will it fare against India’s Navy?

Named Tughril, the frigate and its sister ships are the most powerful surface vessels planned under Pakistan’s naval modernization program, meant to redress a conventional imbalance with India.

www.defensenews.com

CM-401 hypersonic missile, with "near space" trajectory, is realizing export earnings
2021-11-12 12:45 HKT

At the Zhuhai Air Show held before, China actually promoted a high-profile hypersonic missile called CM-401, which is enough to show its strong military confidence. Aside from this foreign trade product, it is conceivable that our own use must be a more powerful missile, which may be carried on the 055 destroyer.

It is understood that as early as 2006, the United States clearly defined the tactical concept of "reaching the world in one hour", which became the starting point for the birth of hypersonic missiles. Since then, the major powers have invested huge sums of money to start related technology research, but due to technical difficulties and little results, even the strong overall strength of the United States can do nothing, even less than Russia and China.

As a new concept weapon, the hypersonic series of missiles do not have many molded products, but they lead the direction of missile improvement. Although some hypersonic missiles have been publicly exposed before, only the CM-401 missile is the first to be sold on the international arms market.

It is understood that the CM-401 uses a rocket engine as its power source. It has the fastest speed above Mach 6 and a maximum strike distance of 290 kilometers. It is a true hypersonic missile. It is reported that the missile can be launched on a variety of platforms, has high-strength maneuverability and other performance, and is a nightmare for aircraft carriers and other large warships.

In actual combat, the CM-401 missile runs on the so-called "near space" trajectory, making it impossible for weapons such as air defense missiles to intercept, and greatly increasing its actual power. It can penetrate the opponent's defense line with a quick penetration, thus making a fatal blow. So far, there is no defense system in the world that can effectively deal with such missiles.

In the eyes of the outside world, the launch of CM-401 can be described as "good news" for small and medium-sized countries, creating conditions for them to challenge big countries. Of course, the reason why China dares to export this weapon is that there are stronger guys in its hands after all. From the specific attribution point of view, the CM-401 missile is a hypersonic missile with a ballistic operating structure, and its strength is indeed inferior to the gliding hypersonic missile, such as the Dongfeng-17 missile. It is reported that the gliding missile has the advantages of fast attack speed and long range. It can not only operate in accordance with the traditional "near space" ballistics, but also can use "Sanger" or even "Qian Xuesen" ballistics to implement faster attacks. From this, it can be judged that the People's Liberation Army probably installed a more prominent hypersonic missile for the Type 055 destroyer, while the export version of the CM-401 is more for the purpose of earning foreign exchange.

 

[alee92nawaz]

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan on Monday commissioned the first of four Type 054A/P frigates during a ceremony at the Hudong Zhonghua Shipbuilding yard in Shanghai, China.

Named Tughril, the frigate and its sister ships are the most powerful surface vessels planned under Pakistan’s naval modernization program, meant to redress a conventional imbalance with India.


Pakistan’s ambassador to China, Moin Ul-Haq, said in a Navy news release that the frigates will strengthen the service’s ability to respond to maritime challenges, ensure seaward defense, and maintain peace, stability and the regional balance of power.

Ul-Haq also praised China State Shipbuilding Corporation, China Shipbuilding Trading Company, China Ship Development and Design Center, and Hudong Zhonghua Shipbuilding, as well as the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy for ensuring the frigate’s timely delivery amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

The Pakistan Navy did not respond to Defense News when asked if the remaining frigates’ deliveries were on schedule.


Pakistan became the ship design’s first foreign customer under a 2017 deal for two Type 054A/P frigates, with two more ordered in 2018, with deliveries to begin in 2021. They are the most powerful Chinese warships exported to date.

The Type 054A/P is a Pakistan-specific variant equipped with the SR2410C long-range and Type 517/SUR17B air-surveillance radars. Previous reports speculated they would be armed with a supersonic anti-ship missile and/or Pakistan’s Harbah anti-ship, land-attack cruise missile.

However, Richard Fisher, a senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, told Defense News the speculation can be put aside with the unveiling of a Pakistani ship-launched ballistic missile, dubbed P282.

“Imagery revealed during the commissioning of Tughril confirms that the ‘P282′ is the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) CM-401 hypersonic-speed capable anti-ship ballistic missile,” Fisher said. The CM-401 is a short-range ballistic missile that can maneuver to avoid interception and can allegedly travel at Mach 6.


Highlighting the flexibility of the Type 054A/P, Fisher said the Tughril is the “first Chinese export warship to feature a 32-cell vertical launch system that can be armed with an array of anti-aircraft missiles, ship and land-attack cruise missiles and anti-submarine missiles, as they are on PLA Navy Type 054A frigates.”

The Type 054A/P also carries HHQ-16 medium-range air defense missiles that provide an area defense capability. Pakistan has experienced a capability gap since its lease ran out with the United States for four American Brooke-class frigates in 1994.

Pakistan’s four F-22P Zulfiquar (Type 053H3-derivative) frigates are incapable of dealing with modern missile threats, but might receive upgrades with the fielding of the Type-054A/Ps.

Tom Waldwyn, a naval expert at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said the Type 054A/P ships “will be a considerable improvement … particularly in terms of [anti-submarine warfare] capability” over the 1970s-era ex-British Type 21 frigates that Pakistan acquired in the 1990s. The Type 21s will now undergo decommissioning.


However, he added, India’s Navy “maintains a significant numbers and capability advantage over Pakistan” despite its own programs having suffered “significant delays” and the service’s spread-out deployment among several coastal areas.

Furthermore, the “potentially more lucrative Indian market” had lured European, Russian and American firms away from supplying Pakistan, essentially forcing Islamabad to rely on Beijing for defense equipment, he said.

Though this may have hampered Pakistan’s ability to acquire cutting-edge defense equipment, Waldwyn said the delivery of eight Type 039B Yuan/Hangor II-class submarines will “enlarge the fleet and be a significant capability improvement, particularly if they are fitted with long-range cruise missiles.”

Citing Pakistan’s tests of the submarine-launched Harbah nuclear-capable cruise missile, he said their service entry “would be far more significant to the strategic balance than a handful of new frigates.”

Pakistan receives new Chinese-made frigate. How will it fare against India’s Navy?

Named Tughril, the frigate and its sister ships are the most powerful surface vessels planned under Pakistan’s naval modernization program, meant to redress a conventional imbalance with India.

www.defensenews.com

CM-401 hypersonic missile, with "near space" trajectory, is realizing export earnings
2021-11-12 12:45 HKT

At the Zhuhai Air Show held before, China actually promoted a high-profile hypersonic missile called CM-401, which is enough to show its strong military confidence. Aside from this foreign trade product, it is conceivable that our own use must be a more powerful missile, which may be carried on the 055 destroyer.

It is understood that as early as 2006, the United States clearly defined the tactical concept of "reaching the world in one hour", which became the starting point for the birth of hypersonic missiles. Since then, the major powers have invested huge sums of money to start related technology research, but due to technical difficulties and little results, even the strong overall strength of the United States can do nothing, even less than Russia and China.

As a new concept weapon, the hypersonic series of missiles do not have many molded products, but they lead the direction of missile improvement. Although some hypersonic missiles have been publicly exposed before, only the CM-401 missile is the first to be sold on the international arms market.

It is understood that the CM-401 uses a rocket engine as its power source. It has the fastest speed above Mach 6 and a maximum strike distance of 290 kilometers. It is a true hypersonic missile. It is reported that the missile can be launched on a variety of platforms, has high-strength maneuverability and other performance, and is a nightmare for aircraft carriers and other large warships.

In actual combat, the CM-401 missile runs on the so-called "near space" trajectory, making it impossible for weapons such as air defense missiles to intercept, and greatly increasing its actual power. It can penetrate the opponent's defense line with a quick penetration, thus making a fatal blow. So far, there is no defense system in the world that can effectively deal with such missiles.

In the eyes of the outside world, the launch of CM-401 can be described as "good news" for small and medium-sized countries, creating conditions for them to challenge big countries. Of course, the reason why China dares to export this weapon is that there are stronger guys in its hands after all. From the specific attribution point of view, the CM-401 missile is a hypersonic missile with a ballistic operating structure, and its strength is indeed inferior to the gliding hypersonic missile, such as the Dongfeng-17 missile. It is reported that the gliding missile has the advantages of fast attack speed and long range. It can not only operate in accordance with the traditional "near space" ballistics, but also can use "Sanger" or even "Qian Xuesen" ballistics to implement faster attacks. From this, it can be judged that the People's Liberation Army probably installed a more prominent hypersonic missile for the Type 055 destroyer, while the export version of the CM-401 is more for the purpose of earning foreign exchange.

Would increase our coastal defense 10x

 

[Irfan Baloch]

what is a pakistani name ?

toba take sigh
ganga ram.. ( hospital)
chaman (daas.. ( our border city in Balochistan)

 

[araz]

Great development. I wish they had used a Pakistani name instead of turgil

Can we please leave the name debate out of thisPLEASE!!!!!!
Regards
A

 

[arjunk]

We could have used names from our history like tipu sultan, umrao khan, haji turangzai, faqir ipi, haider ali, siraj ud dulah, bakht khan, titu mir, palay khan, ajab khan and so many more.
But i guess the state of Pakistan as leftover of british raj doesn't want freedom fighters against british raj to be glorified. We thus have to use ottoman names or old arab warriors.

I'm waiting for the day the hypersonic missile "Aurangzeb" will be tested. The seething from Indians will be a sight to behold.

 

[ghazi52]

The second Tughril-Class (Type 054AP) Guided Missile & Air Defence Figate built for the Pakistan Navy, PNS Tipu Sultan, has left for sea trials from Hudong–Zhonghua Shipbuilding yards in Shanghai today.

 

[Shah_Deu]

The second Tughril-Class (Type 054AP) Guided Missile & Air Defence Figate built for the Pakistan Navy, PNS Tipu Sultan, has left for sea trials from Hudong–Zhonghua Shipbuilding yards in Shanghai today.


View attachment 792731

Great news. Love the choice of name as well. Fantastic times for Pakistan Navy.

 

[Tank131]

Not sure how superior CAMM-ER is when it can only fit SAM.. Can it be fitted with anti sub torpedo?

Sorry, it cant. Babur is too small for further add on unless it wants go sacrifice the SAM.

People are making a number of assumptions when we frankly dont have enough information. Do we have any clue as to what VLS the Babur will use? There must be a reason for the selection of Albatross NG (with CAMM-ER) over HQ-16. The reality is the CAMM-ER is a smaller missile with a longer range than HQ-16. additionally, with the proper VLS, the CAMM-ER can be quad-packed overcoming the size and cell number limitations of Babur. Basically if you get a Sylver A50 or any of the Mk-41s, you can quad-pack the CAMM and CAMM-ER. Both would be able to host Yu-8 in theory (based on length). Given the modified 053 class in the Thai Navy (Naresuan class) is around the same size as Babur, and was refit (rather than designed) with a 8 cell mk41 self defense variant (5.3m) it is logical to assume you could get a Sylver A50 in the Baburs. That means IF you get that VLS via Italy, a Babur could theoretically be loaded up to 64 CAMM-ER. The CAMM itself is stated to be 25km+ range. It is known to have been effectively tested out to 60km which is likely its true range. The CAMM-ER is listed at 45km+ and by extrapolation we can suspect that it likely has a true range somewhere in the 85-120km range. A set up of quad packed CAMM-ER in 16 cells of Babur class would far outclass almost any ship in the South Asia with respect to Air defense. Now you could pair this down to 32 missiles (using 8 cells) with the other being devoted to other weapons such as Yu-8 (if it fits). With its 700km Harba missiles, it would also far out range any ship in Surface to Surface combat including Type 054A/P. Granted the missile is far slower than CM401 or Brahmos.

So in the end, it will likely depend on what VLS module the PN gets. The presence of CAMM-ER however in all aspects is superior to HQ-16. It is a smaller /lighter missile, with greater range and with the right launcher, can be higher in number. Additionally, it is an Active seeker vs the vs the HQ-16 being SARH requiring dedicated target illuminating FRC like the 4 MR-90 on the Type 054A/P. This can save on cost and weight with the lack of necessity for multiple redundant sensors for weapons guidance.

 

[CombatSurgeon]

People are making a number of assumptions when we frankly dont have enough information. Do we have any clue as to what VLS the Babur will use? There must be a reason for the selection of Albatross NG (with CAMM-ER) over HQ-16. The reality is the CAMM-ER is a smaller missile with a longer range than HQ-16. additionally, with the proper VLS, the CAMM-ER can be quad-packed overcoming the size and cell number limitations of Babur. Basically if you get a Sylver A50 or any of the Mk-41s, you can quad-pack the CAMM and CAMM-ER. Both would be able to host Yu-8 in theory (based on length). Given the modified 053 class in the Thai Navy (Naresuan class) is around the same size as Babur, and was refit (rather than designed) with a 8 cell mk41 self defense variant (5.3m) it is logical to assume you could get a Sylver A50 in the Baburs. That means IF you get that VLS via Italy, a Babur could theoretically be loaded up to 64 CAMM-ER. The CAMM itself is stated to be 25km+ range. It is known to have been effectively tested out to 60km which is likely its true range. The CAMM-ER is listed at 45km+ and by extrapolation we can suspect that it likely has a true range somewhere in the 85-120km range. A set up of quad packed CAMM-ER in 16 cells of Babur class would far outclass almost any ship in the South Asia with respect to Air defense. Now you could pair this down to 32 missiles (using 8 cells) with the other being devoted to other weapons such as Yu-8 (if it fits). With its 700km Harba missiles, it would also far out range any ship in Surface to Surface combat including Type 054A/P. Granted the missile is far slower than CM401 or Brahmos.

So in the end, it will likely depend on what VLS module the PN gets. The presence of CAMM-ER however in all aspects is superior to HQ-16. It is a smaller /lighter missile, with greater range and with the right launcher, can be higher in number. Additionally, it is an Active seeker vs the vs the HQ-16 being SARH requiring dedicated target illuminating FRC like the 4 MR-90 on the Type 054A/P. This can save on cost and weight with the lack of necessity for multiple redundant sensors for weapons guidance.

Unluckily, for cost reasons, Babur-class would be carrying only 12 missiles configuration VLS. Each SAM would be be 1.5 million USD, if not more. So it wouldn't be an air defense umbrella vessel for the flotilla.

 

[IceCold]

@waz @The Eagle
Every thread is being hijacked like this with this name debate. Instead of discussing the machine, we are discussing the name tag.

 

[The Eagle]

@waz @The Eagle
Every thread is being hijacked like this with this name debate. Instead of discussing the machine, we are discussing the name tag.

That speaks volume of quality/knowledge/information on subject. Unfortunate.

 

[ziaulislam]

People are making a number of assumptions when we frankly dont have enough information. Do we have any clue as to what VLS the Babur will use? There must be a reason for the selection of Albatross NG (with CAMM-ER) over HQ-16. The reality is the CAMM-ER is a smaller missile with a longer range than HQ-16. additionally, with the proper VLS, the CAMM-ER can be quad-packed overcoming the size and cell number limitations of Babur. Basically if you get a Sylver A50 or any of the Mk-41s, you can quad-pack the CAMM and CAMM-ER. Both would be able to host Yu-8 in theory (based on length). Given the modified 053 class in the Thai Navy (Naresuan class) is around the same size as Babur, and was refit (rather than designed) with a 8 cell mk41 self defense variant (5.3m) it is logical to assume you could get a Sylver A50 in the Baburs. That means IF you get that VLS via Italy, a Babur could theoretically be loaded up to 64 CAMM-ER. The CAMM itself is stated to be 25km+ range. It is known to have been effectively tested out to 60km which is likely its true range. The CAMM-ER is listed at 45km+ and by extrapolation we can suspect that it likely has a true range somewhere in the 85-120km range. A set up of quad packed CAMM-ER in 16 cells of Babur class would far outclass almost any ship in the South Asia with respect to Air defense. Now you could pair this down to 32 missiles (using 8 cells) with the other being devoted to other weapons such as Yu-8 (if it fits). With its 700km Harba missiles, it would also far out range any ship in Surface to Surface combat including Type 054A/P. Granted the missile is far slower than CM401 or Brahmos.

So in the end, it will likely depend on what VLS module the PN gets. The presence of CAMM-ER however in all aspects is superior to HQ-16. It is a smaller /lighter missile, with greater range and with the right launcher, can be higher in number. Additionally, it is an Active seeker vs the vs the HQ-16 being SARH requiring dedicated target illuminating FRC like the 4 MR-90 on the Type 054A/P. This can save on cost and weight with the lack of necessity for multiple redundant sensors for weapons guidance.

Albratos is smaller lighter and with simple launcher
Hq16 simply wouldnt fit a sub 3000 tone ship without compromising other stuff
While albratos was built for smaller sub 2000 tones ship

 

[waz]

That speaks volume of quality/knowledge/information on subject. Unfortunate.

Bro let’s thread ban anyone who starts this stupidity about names. The forum is becoming a joke with ongoing nonsense like this.