Pakistan Navy: The Phoenix Rises

[LadyFinger]

It is just me and my thoughts about this organization that Pakistan Navy lost its credibility in my eyes after the Augusta submarine scandal and all that we got to hear after that. I hope while working on upgrading their technology, they will also work on their repo.

It was a shock and a strange moment when people you trust are found out to be the ones who looted your assets.

 

[sady]

I can vouch for the reactor part, I know it was 80-85% complete in 2008. I guess if @Oscar is revealing it now publically, then that must be 100% tested and ready.

I think it is smart not to divulge sensitive details. This intel is still enemy worthy. We all have a person who knows sensitive stuff but it is better to keep it.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

It is just me and my thoughts about this organization that Pakistan Navy lost its credibility in my eyes after the Augusta submarine scandal and all that we got to hear after that. I hope while working on upgrading their technology, they will also work on their repo.

It was a shock and a strange moment when people you trust are found out to be the ones who looted your assets.

The scandal was on MCMVs, not Agosta, and its all done and over, and everyone moved on. So should you.

 

[LadyFinger]

Your word it is. People heard a lot otherwise. Ordering me? You have retired now.

The scandal was on MCMVs, not Agosta, and its all done and over, and everyone moved on. So should you.

 

[ConcealCarry]

I have been sitting on this and other sensitive info for years without ever divulging anything. Pak developing nuclear reactors for subs is not a secret anymore, it was officially divulged a few years ago on our media.

I think it is smart not to divulge sensitive details. This intel is still enemy worthy. We all have a person who knows sensitive stuff but it is better to keep it.

 

[sady]

I have been sitting on this and other sensitive info for years without ever divulging anything. Pak developing nuclear reactors for subs is not a secret anymore, it was officially divulged a few years ago on our media.

media reports are not worth the toilet paper. Second hand info is. It confirms it. Just to let you know and not in patronising way many fish pdf for info.

I have been sitting on this and other sensitive info for years without ever divulging anything. Pak developing nuclear reactors for subs is not a secret anymore, it was officially divulged a few years ago on our media.

Btw a lot of cut work had been done by 2015....tc ☺

 

[Zarvan]

Some of my friends suggest me that subs are our answer to Indian Navy surface ships and after listening to this answer, I really want to bang my head on the wall. Seriously guys is this your answer, or you just forgot that India also have subs and and they are buying and producing more. Nobody has stopped India from producing subs neither it's prohibited on them. India will not only keep producing Destroyers and Frigates and Corvettes but also both AIP and Nuclear Submarines. So if some one out there wants to suggest me that 14 to 16 submarines are the answer to Indian Navy which in near future would have around 100 big ships than I would really love to meet that person personally.

We don't stand a chance with only 12 Frigates and 14 Submarines. We need much bigger Navy. I mean much much bigger. Finally people will like to call it radio behavior but which ever Frigate we go for in future, that should have VLS which can fire long range cruise missiles. Answering every threat with nuclear boogy is stupidity and eventually of no use. We need to build conventional power. Yes I know the budget story but we have to take drastic steps. @Oscar @Horus

 

[MilSpec]

@Oscar Brilliant article. You should be writing more.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

what is with this fascination for aircraft carriers

 

[SQ8]

As Gwadar continues to progress the navy's wants and needs cannot be or rather will not be ignored. It's too important to shove off to the side and leave it till later. As the troops in the tribal areas start cleaning up the last little bits of resistance and peace is finally resorted the focus will be on the Navy.
@Oscar in all of this where do Pakistan navy's special forces (SSGN) have a role to play. I seldom hear of their role in any analysis.

The SSGN and their role has been well covered within various books, as such not much has changed beyond CT expansion.

all of your points are great and i see you are using Command Modern Air/Naval Operations for simulation here.then you surely know the importance of AAW role warships for defence of our fleet.as a magzine of eight hq 7 sam missles is not enough to thwart any saturation attack of bhramos.our f 22 and 21s will be sitting ducks for indian navy or in some senarios even their naval air arm can be enough to wipe most of our surface fleet out(p 8 and mig 29).as it simply impossible to provide our ships with 24 hour air cover in war time.
pls shed some light on this matter too in your article so all other readers can know what we have achieved in last 15 years and what still remains to be achieved.
@Oscar

That depends on how one places the scenario. The saturation attack does make a difference but that can be relieved by working on a combination of surface and subsurface warfare.

i thought mushy said in 2012 that pakistan was developing a nuclear sub. from 2012 to 2016 from the 4 years and consultations from uncle lee would result in some product.
and as for your write up. i thought the t214 deal was scrapped because the germans refused to integrate an slcm which was due to pressure from the US of A which was the deal breaker

Nope. It was not just that.

Since I am not a Navy man, i will make only one observation. The induction of 08 submarines from China do not take away the suspicion that something else may also be in the offing, to complete the nuclear triad.

A really nicely written article. There are as always a few hinderances which @fatman17 pointed out in his original response. It did seem that finance was not the only hinderance to PN surface acquisition. It seems to me we were at the cusp of change in surface platform usage and use of smaller crafts with shoot and scoot capabilityare now more in favour as compared to larger cumbersome and difficult to hide frigates and destroyers.
One of the recent developments has been the construction of 600 and 1500 ton crafts for the MSA. Is this in indication Of things to come?
The other thing to think of is whether the source of surface platforms is being shifted towards non chinese providers? This seems to have been brought about by safety concerns and possibly associated missile deals which the Chinese are not in a position to provide for the moment.
Either case we are looking at long awaited development of a neglected arm.
A

It seems as if the Navy wants its Merchant branch to be more active in the roles of policing the waters and make its focus the defence of the seas. The F-22P's in their initial condition were very non-user friendly; having people take the OHP as the preferred assignment.

I know about the work on miniature reactor for the subs since 2008 from someone who was directly involved in the project and it was 80-85% complete then. My question was about sub construction. This is however possible that instead of building new platform, Pakistan fits the nuclear reactors in the existing subs or the new Chinese subs without ever declaring it publically.

Nothing is going on the existing subs or the S-20s.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Nope. It was not just that.


.

well what killed the deal as all the details were done and was cancelled last minute.
i dont get it?

 

[SQ8]

well what killed the deal as all the details were done and was cancelled last minute.
i dont get it?

EU parliament members and lobbying within the German Parliament.

 

[Hell hound]

The SSGN and their role has been well covered within various books, as such not much has changed beyond CT expansion.


That depends on how one places the scenario. The saturation attack does make a difference but that can be relieved by working on a combination of surface and subsurface warfare.

Nope. It was not just that.


It seems as if the Navy wants its Merchant branch to be more active in the roles of policing the waters and make its focus the defence of the seas. The F-22P's in their initial condition were very non-user friendly; having people take the OHP as the preferred assignment.


Nothing is going on the existing subs or the S-20s.

and about command Modern air/naval operations if you have made any full indo pak war scenario can you pls share it with me thanks.i am looking for one

 

[Hassan Guy]

what is with this fascination for aircraft carriers

All the great nations have Aircraft Carriers

 

[Imran Khan]

All the great nations have Aircraft Carriers

do we have a nation first lets alone great ?

The scandal was on MCMVs, not Agosta, and its all done and over, and everyone moved on. So should you.

sir ji kickbacks and karachi blast in agosta scandel is well known

https://defence.pk/threads/agosta-90b-submarines-sarkozy-took-pak-kickback.62407/

http://pakistan-posts.blogspot.com/2012/06/corruption-in-agosta-90-deal-zardari.html


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...scandal-returns-to-haunt-sarkozy-1720010.html

http://pakmr.blogspot.com/2011/12/former-french-minister-arrested-in.html