Pakistan Navy---A Day Late & A Dollar Short:---

[Thorough Pro]

by the time those 8 will come, two of the existing will be retired and scrapped, three would be obsolete nearing retirement or going through upgrades to keep them relevant so essentially the effective strength would still be just 8 subs.

And where does the 8 sub deal says we won't buy any surface ships or not acquire aerial surveillance capability? just today we inducted two off shore patrol vessels with more to come, who knew about them?

If you don't have anything rational to put on the table then plz quit or prove him wrong by providing a darn ****** Logical opinion, thank you

 

[Mentee]

by the time those 8 will come, two of the existing will be retired and scrapped, three would be obsolete nearing retirement or going through upgrades to keep them relevant so essentially the effective strength would still be just 8 subs.

And where does the 8 sub deal says we won't buy any surface ships or not acquire aerial surveillance capability? just today we inducted two off shore patrol vessels with more to come, who knew about them?

the point sir @MastanKhan is making is that adopt an holistic approach to grow our military muscles .which we don't seem to be showing any interest in kry gy daikhy gy---- bla bla.

Let me make it more precise and edible by using some images. So here it is our stunted weapons acquisition strategy

And here it is the modest and futuristic approach

Now you draw your own conclusions which one would do the job well in the long run?

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

And here it is the modest and futuristic approach


Now you draw your conclusions which one would do the job in the long run?

It depends, do you want to show off or wrestle mountain bears and lions?

 

[MastanKhan]

Why its hard for people here to understand this one simple Fact that All MK do is crying and Rants WITHOUT PRESENTING A iota of Evidence for RANTS ... and its not HIS OPINION as some cheer Leaders try to Defend his RANTS ..

Hi,

As you have admitted and stated that you do not know didley about the subject---and that is obvious from your outbursts as well---then you would not know a presentation about the subject matter from a bed time story---.

And yet you come out swinging wildly about an issue that you are clueless about---and instead of being ashamed and embarrassed you are yelling and screaming without cause---.

And then you give the example of the 313---and you have no clue about your own religion---you have no clue and understanding as neither did your saviour @Bilal Khan 777 that our prophet Muhammad pbuh---tried his utmost best to arm the fighting men with as many possible weapons that he could find and muster with the resources he had---.

The Prophet pbuh left no stone unturned to find more---but nothing more was available---so he fought with what he had---.

For Paf---there were a million and one options---there were decades where they wasted time and money----when the Yehudan Golda Meir starved her nation following on the example of Prophet Muhammad to buy weapons---these supposed muslim warriors gave away the funds in charity---.

Ask them---why they lied to the nation pakistan and blamed the U S for the sanctions in the 90's---ask them why they kept paying for the F16's even when the sanctions were in place---.

Did you know that once the sanctions were put in place---the Paf kept paying 335 million dollars after the fact---.

You are an innocent young man----whose ego has been hurt---you are finding out that the gods that you have worshipped for years---are not the saints that you thought that they were---your reaction is understandable as your pain is very visible.

For a young honest trusting man to go thru that---it is a terrible thing to know that your military deceived you for years---.

You will get over it in due time---trust me on that.

It feels better to live with little Light, than dying in the darkness ! It's not 1971, today there are so many people who are raising their voice against the military, despite the Fact that the Military is undoubtedly the best function institute in our Country, but all I try to say is that if the military or ISPR would focus more on Public communication, maybe they can make these people shut up. BUT THE FACT IS THAT ISPR is lacking in communicating with the people, so all we want, is that the army and our country Pakistan stays as a strong and Respectable even more than it is today, for this we need more transparency, that will never happen(Yahya Khan-->Tikka Khan->General Niazi -> East Pakistan-> a la Bangladesh). So Mr.Khan ( @MastanKhan ) is trying to fill the gap as an EXPERT, AND YOU CAN, OF COURSE, TRY to take the lead in this role rather than on putt off the light. Good that PDF exists, and poor souls get a voice.....Shukar Alhamdulillah !


regards

Hi,

You have put this so eloquently---" PDF exists---and poor souls get a voice".

 

[CriticalThought]

Hi,

Even though I had wanted to use this term since 6 years ago---I have held back.

I did not want them come knocking at my door---. They might---I have done some google search regarding severity of underwater explosions as compared to surface explosions of the same charge.

Sub launched tactical nuc with small yield with sub surface detonation---are devastating---.

The explosive effect is a multiplier effect of maybe 10---20--30 or a 100 times or more----this mean that if you launch it at any other sub----you don't need to hit it---your target---another sub maybe a mile away and the shock wave could crush it.

You would not need to hit a ship---if it exploded deep underneath the keel---it will destroy any large ship---.

I think that is what pak navy need to pursue----small yield torpedoes with nuc tips---.

Joe Buff writes fiction about modern submarine warfare---if you have not read it---take the time---I think there are 4 works of fiction---

https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Sound-Channel-Joe-Buff/dp/0553762885

A lots of information is fancy stuff---but there are gems in it that cannot be overlooked.

A sub surface torpedo nuc capability would make pak navy take on many an opponent---.

A sub-surface nuke can indeed have devastating effects on naval assets. There are a couple of problems though:

1. Testing. Testing on land is already bad enough and is closely monitored, but at least if it is done deep underground and precautions are taken, the polluting effects can be limited. A test under water would create outrage worldwide and would work against Pakistan's best interests. There was a time of innocence during the 1950s when powers like USA and Russia held tests everywhere - islands, space, you name it. But most of the world has now wizened up to it.

2. Controlling the effects. I read somewhere that the Americans tested creating artificial Tsunamis using a nuclear detonation beneath the ocean floor. A lot of planning was involved and the tsunami was supposed to hit an island. Unfortunately, it hit the very ship that was assigned to monitoring the whole event. The ocean is too vast ,and the processes too complex for anyone to predict the effects and outcomes of sub-surface explosions.

3. The submarine itself becoming a casualty remains a real danger. Why take the risk when similar devastating effects can be achieved using different means?

4. In the end, Pakistan's economy (via fishing) is also dependent on fishing in the Arabian Sea. Why shoot one's own leg and endanger our own livelihood?

In the end, a sub-surface detonation would be a last ditch effort where all else fails.

My sole interest in nukes at sea is in breaking up Indian naval strike groups. I want to change Indian calculus such that multiple assets strung close together at sea becomes an unviable option. Scattered assets can then be picked up through pack hunting by our subs. That's the jist of my philosophy.

@MastanKhan @Oscar @Aether @Sarge @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @Zarvan @Windjammer

 

[Pakistan First]

Hi,

Pakistan's military conglomerate has again been caught short---the surfacing of the indian sub 40 nautical miles away just when the chinese naval ship was visiting pakistan---and the inauguration of CPEC route at Gwadar just showed the pak navy was woefully ill-equipped.

A few years ago when the rumors surfaced about pak military signing a 5 billion dollars deal for 8 chinese subs and supply time of 10 years from the time of signing---and delivery of the last submarine---.

I had written that---that deal was totally ill prepared and ill conceived---. I had stated that the target should have been 5 years project---number of submarine cut in half---and the other half split between surface ships and an aircraft of the type of JH7B---.

So---that all the three facets are covered at the same time in parallel---by three different groups---which has three times the force multiplier effect---.

So rather than just having 4 submarines in 5 years----you would also have 3-4 frigates of the 5000 + tonnage capacity plus at least 4 sqdrns of heavies---be it the JH7B---or the J16's----and some smaller vessels in the 500---1500 tonnage---.

After the 5 years---another deal of 5 billion signed for more subs and ships if needed.

The casual and callous attitude of the pak military showed that it did not foresee or visualize such an incident happening so close to its waters---and that shows a very poor understanding of what is at stake in the arena---at Gwadar---the arabian sea---the gulf---.

Basically---pak military has been caught with its pants down one more time.

Your points have been noted and strict action is underway against all the involved Admirals. We will be seeking your professional advice and guidance in all future planning of our military resources. Thankyou.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Oh please.



Hmm, that's interesting.



Again, that's merely an assumption.

Hi,

Pakistan's military conglomerate has again been caught short---the surfacing of the indian sub 40 nautical miles away just when the chinese naval ship was visiting pakistan---and the inauguration of CPEC route at Gwadar just showed the pak navy was woefully ill-equipped.

A few years ago when the rumors surfaced about pak military signing a 5 billion dollars deal for 8 chinese subs and supply time of 10 years from the time of signing---and delivery of the last submarine---.

I had written that---that deal was totally ill prepared and ill conceived---. I had stated that the target should have been 5 years project---number of submarine cut in half---and the other half split between surface ships and an aircraft of the type of JH7B---.

So---that all the three facets are covered at the same time in parallel---by three different groups---which has three times the force multiplier effect---.

So rather than just having 4 submarines in 5 years----you would also have 3-4 frigates of the 5000 + tonnage capacity plus at least 4 sqdrns of heavies---be it the JH7B---or the J16's----and some smaller vessels in the 500---1500 tonnage---.

After the 5 years---another deal of 5 billion signed for more subs and ships if needed.

The casual and callous attitude of the pak military showed that it did not foresee or visualize such an incident happening so close to its waters---and that shows a very poor understanding of what is at stake in the arena---at Gwadar---the arabian sea---the gulf---.

Basically---pak military has been caught with its pants down one more time.

This is a very very irresponsible thread which you started. instead of congratulating your navy which smoked out a snake from its hiding place (the indian sub) you have started criticizing. Remember submarine hunting is considered most callous of the military operations, it amounts to finding a needle in a hay stack. In spite of all their state of the art technolgy USA has often been surprised by Chinese subs (which are considered clanky by some, though i have a personal different view) by surfacing right in front of their aircraft carrier well inside their carrier group. We spotted the enemy, tracked it and i am sure must have locked it as well, WELL DONE PAKISTAN NAVY WE R PROUD OF YOU

 

[MastanKhan]

This is a very very irresponsible thread which you started. instead of congratulating your navy which smoked out a snake from its hiding place (the indian sub) you have started criticizing. Remember submarine hunting is considered most callous of the military operations, it amounts to finding a needle in a hay stack. In spite of all their state of the art technolgy USA has often been surprised by Chinese subs (which are considered clanky by some, though i have a personal different view) by surfacing right in front of their aircraft carrier well inside their carrier group. We spotted the enemy, tracked it and i am sure must have locked it as well, WELL DONE PAKISTAN NAVY WE R PROUD OF YOU

Hi,

Knowing the americans as much as I do---they allowed the sub to get in close---knowing very well that it could do nothing at all---. They just wanted the chinese to have a moment of glory---and that is all.

Never sell the americans short---.

As for the indian sub---. Subs don't surface 40 miles from enemy coastline to breath---that sub was a diversion for another subthat was deep inside pakistani waters---and this sub sacrificed its location to get the attention for the other sub to escape---.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Hi,

Knowing the americans as much as I do---they allowed the sub to get in close---knowing very well that it could do nothing at all---. They just wanted the chinese to have a moment of glory---and that is all.

Never sell the americans short---.

As for the indian sub---. Subs don't surface 40 miles from enemy coastline to breath---that sub was a diversion for another subthat was deep inside pakistani waters---and this sub sacrificed its location to get the attention for the other sub to escape---.

Mr Tom Clancy (lol) thanks for putting us wise on submarine tactics, and what might the other sub

Hi,

Knowing the americans as much as I do---they allowed the sub to get in close---knowing very well that it could do nothing at all---. They just wanted the chinese to have a moment of glory---and that is all.

Never sell the americans short---.

As for the indian sub---. Subs don't surface 40 miles from enemy coastline to breath---that sub was a diversion for another subthat was deep inside pakistani waters---and this sub sacrificed its location to get the attention for the other sub to escape---.

thank you mr Tom Clancy(lol) for putting us wise on submarine tactics of Indian and US navies. well now that you know too much since when have subs starting diving in pairs?

Hi,

Knowing the americans as much as I do---they allowed the sub to get in close---knowing very well that it could do nothing at all---. They just wanted the chinese to have a moment of glory---and that is all.

Never sell the americans short---.

As for the indian sub---. Subs don't surface 40 miles from enemy coastline to breath---that sub was a diversion for another subthat was deep inside pakistani waters---and this sub sacrificed its location to get the attention for the other sub to escape---.

If 40 miles wasnt deep enough then the other "DEEP INSIDE" wali sub must be at 40 meters, right ?

Hi,

Knowing the americans as much as I do---they allowed the sub to get in close---knowing very well that it could do nothing at all---. They just wanted the chinese to have a moment of glory---and that is all.

Never sell the americans short---.

As for the indian sub---. Subs don't surface 40 miles from enemy coastline to breath---that sub was a diversion for another subthat was deep inside pakistani waters---and this sub sacrificed its location to get the attention for the other sub to escape---.

Submarines operate alone, these r not wolf packs of 1940

 

[MastanKhan]

Mr Tom Clancy (lol) thanks for putting us wise on submarine tactics, and what might the other sub

thank you mr Tom Clancy(lol) for putting us wise on submarine tactics of Indian and US navies. well now that you know too much since when have subs starting diving in pairs?

Hi,

When they are on a critical mission and an obsolete sub needed to be used as a diversion---like in this case---an older model indian sub surfaced to breathe---.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Hi,

When they are on a critical mission and an obsolete sub needed to be used as a diversion---like in this case---an older model indian sub surfaced to breathe---.

Bhai it was chased for 3 days, then it surfaced. It was forced to surface

Bhai it was chased for 3 days, then it surfaced. It was forced to surface

from where you learnt this tactics? "When they are on a critical mission and an obsolete sub needed to be used as a diversion" i never ever heard of such tactics

 

[MastanKhan]

Bhai it was chased for 3 days, then it surfaced. It was forced to surface


from where you learnt this tactics? "When they are on a critical mission and an obsolete sub needed to be used as a diversion" i never ever heard of such tactics

Sir,

That 3 day time period allowed someone else---a more sophisticated sub to escape undetected.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Bhai it was chased for 3 days, then it surfaced. It was forced to surface


from where you learnt this tactics? "When they are on a critical mission and an obsolete sub needed to be used as a diversion" i never ever heard of such tactics

Lol .. Very good tactic... Face embarrassment in any case ...


And in case of war... Get fked along with the moral of your troops...

@MastanKhan I respect you and all ... But please stop making childish claims on a public forum .... Doesn't make you look good ...

 

[Aasimkhan]

Hi,

When they are on a critical mission and an obsolete sub needed to be used as a diversion---like in this case---an older model indian sub surfaced to breathe---.

your ideas about employment of submarines are so brilliant, unorthodox, out-of-the-box that I think PN should find you wherever you are and give you a rapid accelerated promotion and make you commander of submarine force.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Sir,

That 3 day time period allowed someone else---a more sophisticated sub to escape undetected.

And what was the "more sophisticated" sub doing? Poaching fish ?


And what did India achieve ? Global embarrassment and the Indian sub commandant probably loosing his command ?

And your claims are based on what? Your conspiracy theory?


This is a public forum .. And frankly your ranting.... If not please back up your conspiracy theory.