Pakistan Navy---A Day Late & A Dollar Short:---

[Aasimkhan]

your ideas about employment of submarines are so brilliant, unorthodox, out-of-the-box that I think PN should find you wherever you are and give you a rapid accelerated promotion and make you commander of submarine force.

I am sure you will boggle the minds of Indians also just like you boggled mine

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Hi,

Knowing the americans as much as I do---they allowed the sub to get in close---knowing very well that it could do nothing at all---. They just wanted the chinese to have a moment of glory---and that is all.

Never sell the americans short---.

As for the indian sub---. Subs don't surface 40 miles from enemy coastline to breath---that sub was a diversion for another subthat was deep inside pakistani waters---and this sub sacrificed its location to get the attention for the other sub to escape---.

Wow Americans allowing Chinese sub to pop up next to their carrier during an exercise ... Leaving their top brass embarrassed ... So the Chinese could have a moment of glory ?

Sounds grand..!

Maybe they could send Emma Stone for a date with me so I could have mine too? What do you say?

 

[Aasimkhan]

Wow Americans allowing Chinese sub to pop up next to their carrier during an exercise ... Leaving their top brass embarrassed ... So the Chinese could have a moment of glory ?

Sounds grand..!

Right now half of US antisubmarine force is trying to find two Russian subs in Mediterranean sea with little luck. Americans are good but they r not GOD.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Right now half of US antisubmarine force is trying to find two Russian subs in Mediterranean sea with little luck. Americans are good but they r not GOD.

The Russians sent an allegedly obsolete one so the advanced one can "steal" the precious dish from the mid while the other sub gets caught ... And the advance one escapes !

Bravo ...

 

[MastanKhan]

Bhai it was chased for 3 days, then it surfaced. It was forced to surface


from where you learnt this tactics? "When they are on a critical mission and an obsolete sub needed to be used as a diversion" i never ever heard of such tactics

Hi,

So what is wrong with hearing it the first time---. In real life there is no such thing as a " i never ever heard of such tactics ".

See---we are talking about matters of national security---so what would you do---if you found out at a later date that this could happen or it did happen---would you shoot yourself to admit to your blunder---?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

This meme defines this thread;

 

[war&peace]

It is a pity that the idiots and trolls on the thread have drowned otherwise an excellent topic for discussion into rants and counter rants. There are multiple styles and manners to approach the same issue. What @MastanKhan is advocating is one approach and what PNS leadership did is another approach. Both have pros and cons. MK's approach is more holistic but as @Bilal Khan 777 said that everything is not public and a lot of information is secret which I wish is the case. However, some trolls and idiots claiming that our planners are the best and they can't commit mistakes, I would like tell them that our planners haven't just made mistakes, they have made blunders, partly because they have been arrogant and partly because their upper storeys are emptier than interstellar space. If your planners were so smart, today we would have been tier 1 exporter of high tech weaponry to the world. We got a lot of golden opportunities on platter but we just ignored them and I wish if those could be investigated and truth is told to the nation that how and when those professionals and experts let the nation down.

We can begin by asking questions like

• why PNS opted for Agosta instead of Scorpene or Merlin?
• but more importantly, what happened to all the ToT that we got as part of Agosta deal?
• why did we not build our own indigenous submarine when we got the ToT, team and the facility?
• why did we not start building large ships (>2500 tonnes) indigenously?
• why did we not protect our assets like Atlantique?

A fair trial will reveal that these "angels" had some bad ulterior motives or severe professional incompetency to tackle the problem.

Just think, read books, and newspapers, connect the dots and you will get a better picture..please use your mind. I'm not suggesting they have messed up this time too, no I think they have done this to secure the 2nd strike capability of which submarines are an integral part. So personally I think navy is doing the right thing and I guess the orders came from NCA instead of just the Naval Chief

 

[MastanKhan]

please use your mind.

Hi,

Only if they could listen to the Late Bob Woolmer----" a mind is like a parachute---to use it---you have to open it "------that was specially meant for you Mr M.Phil student---.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Hi,

So what is wrong with hearing it the first time---. In real life there is no such thing as a " i never ever heard of such tactics ".

See---we are talking about matters of national security---so what would you do---if you found out at a later date that this could happen or it did happen---would you shoot yourself to admit to your blunder---?

I would use my common sense brother, which you are not using at the moment

 

[Zarvan]

Hi,

Pakistan's military conglomerate has again been caught short---the surfacing of the indian sub 40 nautical miles away just when the chinese naval ship was visiting pakistan---and the inauguration of CPEC route at Gwadar just showed the pak navy was woefully ill-equipped.

A few years ago when the rumors surfaced about pak military signing a 5 billion dollars deal for 8 chinese subs and supply time of 10 years from the time of signing---and delivery of the last submarine---.

I had written that---that deal was totally ill prepared and ill conceived---. I had stated that the target should have been 5 years project---number of submarine cut in half---and the other half split between surface ships and an aircraft of the type of JH7B---.

So---that all the three facets are covered at the same time in parallel---by three different groups---which has three times the force multiplier effect---.

So rather than just having 4 submarines in 5 years----you would also have 3-4 frigates of the 5000 + tonnage capacity plus at least 4 sqdrns of heavies---be it the JH7B---or the J16's----and some smaller vessels in the 500---1500 tonnage---.

After the 5 years---another deal of 5 billion signed for more subs and ships if needed.

The casual and callous attitude of the pak military showed that it did not foresee or visualize such an incident happening so close to its waters---and that shows a very poor understanding of what is at stake in the arena---at Gwadar---the arabian sea---the gulf---.

Basically---pak military has been caught with its pants down one more time.

Submarine deal is great thing and is needed to counter Indian fleet but we the real issue is we need Cruise Missile equipped Frigates also. We are not focusing on that. We need Frigates which have capabilities similar to French FREMM class I mean can fire both long range cruise missiles and also long range air defence along with good Anti Submarine capabilities. We need 24 of these Frigates and that is minimum number which we need to counter Indian Navy which soon will have around 80 to 100 Major Ships. Even Islam ALLAH has told Muslims you should have at least half the power of your enemy. Finally for Air Power for Navy well for time two squadrons of JF-17 will do the job but as economy improves our Navy should have independent Air Wing which should be have Jets like J-16 or similar. Pakistan Navy needs to have massive growth in next 10 to 15 years otherwise we are seriously doomed. @MastanKhan By the way I am hoping the Submarines will have at least 6 VLS tubes to fire cruise missiles.

 

[Aasimkhan]

This is pitty that the idiots and trolls on the threads have drowned the excellent topic to discuss. There are multiple styles and manners to approach the same issue. What @MastanKhan is advocating is one approach and what PNS leadership did is another approach. Both have pros and cons. MK's approach is more holistic but as @Bilal Khan 777 said that everything is not public and a lot of information is secret which I wish is the case. However, some trolls and idiots claiming that our planners are the best and they can't commit mistakes, I would tell these fools that they haven't just made mistakes, they have made blunders, partly because they have been arrogant and partly because their upper storeys are emptier than interstellar space. If your planners were so smart, today we would have been tier 1 exporter of high tech weaponry to the world. We got a lot of golden opportunities on platter but we just ignored them and I wish if those could be investigated and truth is told to the nation that how and when those professionals and experts let the nation down.

We can begin by asking questions like

• -but more importantly, what happened to all the ToT that we got as part of Agosta deal?kwhy did we not build our own indigenous submarine when we got the ToT, team and the facility?
• why did we not start building large ships (>2500 tonnes) indigenously?
• why did we not protect our assets like Atlantique?

A fair trial will reveal that these "angels" had some bad ulterior motives or severe professional incompetency to tackle the problem.

Just think, read books, and newspapers, connect the dots and you will get a better picture..please use your mind.

O bhai jan, looking in the back-view-mirror and criticizing and asking why why is very easy. Try to walk a mile in the shoes of a General, you will get blisters

This is pitty that the idiots and trolls on the threads have drowned the excellent topic to discuss. There are multiple styles and manners to approach the same issue. What @MastanKhan is advocating is one approach and what PNS leadership did is another approach. Both have pros and cons. MK's approach is more holistic but as @Bilal Khan 777 said that everything is not public and a lot of information is secret which I wish is the case. However, some trolls and idiots claiming that our planners are the best and they can't commit mistakes, I would tell these fools that they haven't just made mistakes, they have made blunders, partly because they have been arrogant and partly because their upper storeys are emptier than interstellar space. If your planners were so smart, today we would have been tier 1 exporter of high tech weaponry to the world. We got a lot of golden opportunities on platter but we just ignored them and I wish if those could be investigated and truth is told to the nation that how and when those professionals and experts let the nation down.

We can begin by asking questions like

• why PNS opted for Agosta instead of Scorpene or Merlin?
• but more importantly, what happened to all the ToT that we got as part of Agosta deal?
• why did we not build our own indigenous submarine when we got the ToT, team and the facility?
• why did we not start building large ships (>2500 tonnes) indigenously?
• why did we not protect our assets like Atlantique?

A fair trial will reveal that these "angels" had some bad ulterior motives or severe professional incompetency to tackle the problem.

Just think, read books, and newspapers, connect the dots and you will get a better picture..please use your mind.

why why why ki rat laga dee hai, do you have any DOLLARS in your pocket? I can give you 20 aircraft carriers if u can pay for them

Hi,

Only if they could listen to the Late Bob Woolmer----" a mind is like a parachute---to use it---you have to open it "------that was specially meant for you Mr M.Phil student---.

New idea will go in your mind only when you will take out the old ones, your radar screen is cluttered and you hard disk needs formatting then you will start understanding LOGIC

 

[randomradio]

A sub-surface nuke can indeed have devastating effects on naval assets. There are a couple of problems though:

1. Testing. Testing on land is already bad enough and is closely monitored, but at least if it is done deep underground and precautions are taken, the polluting effects can be limited. A test under water would create outrage worldwide and would work against Pakistan's best interests. There was a time of innocence during the 1950s when powers like USA and Russia held tests everywhere - islands, space, you name it. But most of the world has now wizened up to it.

There was no "time of innocence".

2. Controlling the effects. I read somewhere that the Americans tested creating artificial Tsunamis using a nuclear detonation beneath the ocean floor. A lot of planning was involved and the tsunami was supposed to hit an island. Unfortunately, it hit the very ship that was assigned to monitoring the whole event. The ocean is too vast ,and the processes too complex for anyone to predict the effects and outcomes of sub-surface explosions.

That's never happened.

Maybe if you look at an actual test.

My sole interest in nukes at sea is in breaking up Indian naval strike groups. I want to change Indian calculus such that multiple assets strung close together at sea becomes an unviable option. Scattered assets can then be picked up through pack hunting by our subs. That's the jist of my philosophy.

Multiple assets are not strung close together. Anyway, you can see that a number of ships survived in the video even though they were enveloped by the wall of water.

 

[CriticalThought]

Submarine deal is great thing and is needed to counter Indian fleet but we the real issue is we need Cruise Missile equipped Frigates also. We are not focusing on that. We need Frigates which have capabilities similar to French FREMM class I mean can fire both long range cruise missiles and also long range air defence along with good Anti Submarine capabilities. We need 24 of these Frigates and that is minimum number which we need to counter Indian Navy which soon will have around 80 to 100 Major Ships. Even Islam ALLAH has told Muslims you should have at least half the power of your enemy. Finally for Air Power for Navy well for time two squadrons of JF-17 will do the job but as economy improves our Navy should have independent Air Wing which should be have Jets like J-16 or similar. Pakistan Navy needs to have massive growth in next 10 to 15 years otherwise we are seriously doomed. @MastanKhan By the way I am hoping the Submarines will have at least 6 VLS tubes to fire cruise missiles.

First of all please provide the quote where Muslims have been told to have at least half the power of the enemy? If you are referring to Aal-e-imran paarah 4 you need to better understand the meaning.

And sorry to say this Bhai, please don't take it negatively, but your plan is even more unlikely than @MastanKhan except if u have some insider knowledge of sources of funding or a Chinese donation.

We have two options at this stage. Outsource our naval security by allowing them to build bases, or use nukes to nullify Indian numerical advantage. Only in the very long term would indigenous development give us some solid naval muscle.

There was no "time of innocence".



That's never happened.

Maybe if you look at an actual test.

Multiple assets are not strung close together. Anyway, you can see that a number of ships survived in the video even though they were enveloped by the wall of water.

There was certainly a time of innocence where third world countries like Pakistan were unaware of or unable to raise their voices against all manner of environmentally unfriendly activities conducted by major world powers. Dr. Maliha Lodhi recently gave a speech to this effect about nuclearization of space.

Search for nuclear tsunami bomb. I can't find the article I read a while ago but the reason I found it in the first place was because smh.com.au hosted a movie about hypothetical man made tsubamis. Sydney morning herald posts intellectually meaningful content intended to stimulate the thinking of Australian public. That video led me to search for artificial tsunamis.

The effects of an underwater nuke will depend on a large number of factors such as yield, depth etc. The video proves nothing.

 

[Inception-06]

some cheer Leaders try to Defend his RANTS ..

Kia biat karta he, koi respect nai, tum wi bhul gea he, we all are Pakistani Brothers and should respect each other even if we have different opinions, that is only a digital platform and you can hide you behind an avatar, introduce yourself !


Mind your language my comrade, what cheer Leader ? I am YOUR SUPREME LEADER - Bushido (武士道)

 

[randomradio]

There was certainly a time of innocence where third world countries like Pakistan were unaware of or unable to raise their voices against all manner of environmentally unfriendly activities conducted by major world powers. Dr. Maliha Lodhi recently gave a speech to this effect about nuclearization of space.

Search for nuclear tsunami bomb. I can't find the article I read a while ago but the reason I found it in the first place was because smh.com.au hosted a movie about hypothetical man made tsubamis. Sydney morning herald posts intellectually meaningful content intended to stimulate the thinking of Australian public. That video led me to search for artificial tsunamis.

The effects of an underwater nuke will depend on a large number of factors such as yield, depth etc. The video proves nothing.

That's not time of innocence, that's time of 'helplessness'.

There is a lot of fake propaganda about nukes.

The point of the video was you will kill more ships if you do a regular air burst or surface burst rather than an underwater burst. However, a navy that operates under the threat of nuclear war will take precautions, particularly spacing.