Pakistan Navy---A Day Late & A Dollar Short:---

[randomradio]

France, the UK, the US, Norway, Germany, Italy, Canada all parts of NATO with fantastic ASW - surface, subsurface, land, air and space. High levels of integration and cooperation between the bunch as well.

I think... ah forget it, no reason to get worked up over this.

IN's assets are newer and recently upgraded, that's all. NATO is only beginning to upgrade or replace old assets.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

We were running to U.N and China to stop India about violations of ceasefire and we had only 13 days of oil left after such big debt of P.S.O . So it is better we prepare ourself, and arm our military, also navy to the teeth. We have not such big water coastline, 8 new diesel powered submarine is more than enough But To create havoc in enemy line and to disperse enemy unit, for this we need few deep strike fighter with submarines. Maybe they are doing 8 submarine deal in single contract, to lower its cost, but we can also do it 4 submarines with option of 4 more submarines. And allocate funds according to need.
These submarines will give us credible Second strike capability, but we need to complete naval version of Babur cruise missile project as soon as possible.

 

[randomradio]

Can you give me a comprehensive list of the ASW assets Norway is using? If yes, then I'll be willing to do a similar in-depth comparison of the assets of NATO - which I'm likely much more familiar with then you are - and those of India - which I'm likely equally familiar with.

If no, then like I previously wrote I wouldn't want to drag this out further, seeing as how such conclusions like India =+ then NATO can't be arrived at without knowing the assets of both sides. I don't ascribe to your stance, but am willing to give this a go too. ASW is far more then assets, It's a network, but let's start with the assets and potentially work from there.

BTW, Wikipedia wont be any help since it's drastically incomplete. However my Nordic Military Thread can definitely give you a nice start, though as with Wikipedia, it's incomplete because it's focused on pictures.

https://defence.pk/threads/nordic-d...ideos-and-history.347504/page-48#post-8968335

As you pointed out, there's no point going through open source for this. For example, ISRO is a purely 'civilian' entity as well. Plus our 'ocean mining' (pun intended) operations are secret too.

So I was only talking about open source capabilities, which are easy to judge, because most of NATO's open source capabilities are imported, just like India's, and all from the same countries.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir, when you have an intruder in your house, and you take him down, do you switch the safety on your firearm, and put it back in the gun locker? OR do you sweep every room, nook and carny, in your house, and insure that there are no more intruders?

I would be insulting my intelligence, IF I were to believe, that you are not aware, of what would have happened to another sub hiding nearer Pakistan's coast. So what exactly is the point of this line of questioning?

Hi,

This line of reasoning is to keep the guard up and not be lackadaisical and get a lovey dovey feeling over this achievement.

In american terms it is called sleight of hands---even if you are 100% sure that it was the only sub---you BY DEFAULT would assume that there was another one that slipped away---.

It is just like a Cop---even if he knows that you are innocent---he will treat you as being guilty---because you might admit to something else---.

This thinking would raise awareness and keep you more alert.

Look at what happened at Pearl harbor---they guy reports to his commander that he supposedly saw the snorkel of a sub---where it was not supposed to be---or the flight of aircraft coming in and showing on the radar but coming from a wrong direction and were assumed to be friendlies---even though they were in very large numbers---.

What I was saying about the second sub was that it was supposedly doing something---and once the activity of search increased in the arena---the first sub on the outskirt created a diversion---and as the attention was focussed towards the first sub---possibly the second sub slipped away---.

I mean to say---this is basic 101 tactic with pic pockets---. In europe specially young girls---would reach older male tourists and then raise their shirts and show their young shapely boobies----and while the attention of the men were diverted---a pick pocket would do his job and be gone by the time you realized that the boobie show was very costly.

PS---what I am saying over here about the second sub---this would be standard observation procedure in the U S military and intel agy's---it would be by default the base commander would want to know ' why someone did the unpredictable '---.

A standard american military and american intel agencies question would be ' why this sub behaved in this manner so close to our shores '---what was its purpose to surface.

The thing is---I am talking about what I know and how I would deal with it---but if someone does not comprehend it---it is not my fault--- .

 

[MastanKhan]

People just dont understand how freaking dark these times are and what the bigger picture is. I just fear by the time they wake up it may well be too late.
A

Hi,

I was telling you about the dark times coming some 11 years ago---but you were not listening---you wanted to make a vietnam of those---.

11 years later---you taker this term and make it your own and start waving the flag of dark times coming---what hypocracy---.

For 15 years ago---I was talking about the dark times at other venues---but the likes of you were making fun of me---and just like you---they are claiming about the ownership of dark times---.

 

[hacker J]

Whether it was Pakistan or not, you indians were 100% convinced it was we who were responsible. The most pertinent point is WHAT is a nation that is more than 7x bigger than Pakistan and has abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege, going to do about it?

Seriously are you denied of these tech ?? French tech AIP subs ? Russioan mi35 helis? american cobaras, helina, f 16, artillary M110, M109 A2, M109 A5? , BGM , TOW anti tank missiles? turkish anti air systems ? German assault rifles ? and m not even talking about china yet bro, you have china so does india has israel thats all. All russian equipmets are copied and modified so available through china so firstly stop saying that you don't have access ok.
2. If you so belived in being attacked then let me tell you you were not attacked because of following reasons as per my belief
a) The leadership of india was not that strong the gov was stupid
b) India was worried about a full blown out war againts nuke pak (which they keep on yelling about nuking india)
c) Tension with china

That has nothing to do with indian capability , now try one more mumbai and see yourself torn out belive me time is changing

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Seriously are you denied of these tech ?? French tech AIP subs ? Russioan mi35 helis? american cobaras, helina, f 16, artillary M110, M109 A2, M109 A5? , BGM , TOW anti tank missiles? turkish anti air systems ? German assault rifles ? and m not even talking about china yet bro, you have china so does india has israel thats all. All russian equipmets are copied and modified so available through china so firstly stop saying that you don't have access ok.
2. If you so belived in being attacked then let me tell you you were not attacked because of following reasons as per my belief
a) The leadership of india was not that strong the gov was stupid
b) India was worried about a full blown out war againts nuke pak (which they keep on yelling about nuking india)
c) Tension with china

That has nothing to do with indian capability , now try one more mumbai and see yourself torn out belive me time is changing

But you have more access to the LATEST high tech weaponry and you are more than 7x bigger than us yet our race and nation is still here

 

[CHACHA"G"]

First of all please stop brining Religion and Islam and Our Great Elders in this discussion , If u don't know what u are talking about or with out ZERO knowledge of History or very limited knowledge of Religion.
100s after 100s Examples in our rich and great history about defensive and offensive strategies . We been advice to have our Horses Ready (Horse was Top class and VIP weapon of war at that time) at all times , Our GREAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH had many Swords in HIS (PBUH) House (even HE(PBUH) don't have other House hold Items) What This Great Example means????????? Do u need more !!!!!!!!!!!! What about sending Army to fight in Syria under Young Osama(RA) later First Khalifa Sent that Army????
Now Look at PAKISTAN'S war doctrine , look at PN , My dear Friends You can not defend your self if u don't have ability to attack same Enemy . That's the lesson of history (90%) , Do u Guys remember 1971 , where was that defensive strategy .
I have some differences with MK mindset or thinking but,
I agree with Mr MK that its almost accepting a defeat (only defensive) doctrine , We can not match our enemy in numbers but what about Tech and Better Eqm and training and what about decent numbers !!!!!!! 1 ships vs 4 ships in open waters , you don't need rocket science to think who will lose , but that 1 ship(advance , better eqm and better training ) with help of air and Under sea units can kill at least 2 or u can say have a better chance against 4 enemy ships.
So If we want to have 1 ship y not have a 500m$ ship with all latest eqm available , instead of having 1 , cheap 200$m with less advance and stripe down version of modern ship.(just look at F22ps and some other available )
And stop playing with tactical Nukes drammmmmm , Its extremely dangerous in current and almost lethal (against Pakistan) in future Geo-political environment.
We need to modernize our Armed Forces and we have to increase their capabilities and also numbers , Yes we can not match our enemy in numbers , but better and latest eqm and training is the answer to that . Now just think for a minute , What are we doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes we are almost too late , but if we speed up things we can do it in 5 to 10 years.

 

[Indus Falcon]

It's obvious you missed it, but the discussion is about whether you want to strike Indian ships by air or sea.

Mastan obviously prefers going by air while Critical thinks the Sea is better. I put up counter arguments against both. I pointed to Mastan that we have too many squadrons and A2/AD zones if he wants to go by air. And to Critical, I pointed out our anti-sub assets are better than what NATO has today.

So what's your problem with that?

Some facts are uncomfortable, learn to live with them.

We all know how incompetent IN is, so please go talk BS somewhere else. You are already a laughing stock, but by saying IN has better assets than NATO, you are only making a fool of your self. No one else.

 

[hacker J]

But you have more access to the LATEST high tech weaponry and you are more than 7x bigger than us yet our race and nation is still here

But you have more access to the LATEST high tech weaponry and you are more than 7x bigger than us yet our race and nation is still here

hahaha you just want to troll and force me to say that yes u exist because of our grace not even god can save u n ur nation if that kinda war breaks out

 

[Khafee]

It's obvious you missed it, but the discussion is about whether you want to strike Indian ships by air or sea.

Mastan obviously prefers going by air while Critical thinks the Sea is better. I put up counter arguments against both. I pointed to Mastan that we have too many squadrons and A2/AD zones if he wants to go by air. And to Critical, I pointed out our anti-sub assets are better than what NATO has today.

So what's your problem with that?

Some facts are uncomfortable, learn to live with them.

What have you been smoking? Stop talking crap.

@Aether @waz Dumb troll gone mad.

 

[war&peace]

What have you been smoking? Stop talking crap.

@Aether @waz Dumb troll gone mad.

I think sir for him NATO == Sri Lanka

 

[Khafee]

I think sir for him NATO == Sri Lanka

Just when you think you met the dumbest of the dumbest, another one pops up.

 

[war&peace]

Just when you think you met the dumbest of the dumbest, another one pops up.

two possibilities sir

1. He doesn't know about NATO that includes USA itself
2. He is lying on purpose to irritate and provoke people

I go with option 2

 

[Khafee]

two possibilities sir

1. He doesn't know about NATO that includes USA itself
2. He is lying on purpose to irritate and provoke people

I go with option 2

I will go with option 1. Go through his jingoistic crap.