Pakistan Navy---A Day Late & A Dollar Short:---

[randomradio]

I'll post some itty-bitty open source "facts" about the IN that nobody here seems to be aware of.

1. IN-USN-JMSDF anti-sub exercises have gone a 'little bit' further than what NATO has done to date. Those who know more will know what I'm talking about and why it goes a 'little bit' further.

2. We thought the P-8Is will have our best sensor capabilities. But we were wrong.

3. Underwater tech is something we have very high competence in. That's why it has mostly been indigenized even though we have the best global stuff available to us.

Lastly, I don't understand why people are acting so ignorant. Whatever cooperation the Israelis have with the US in ASW, we have pretty much the same level of cooperation with the Israelis. This is no secret. In fact, we cooperate with the Israelis in some of the most sensitive tech there is.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

hahaha you just want to troll and force me to say that yes u exist because of our grace not even god can save u n ur nation if that kinda war breaks out

So why the grace after mumbai 2008 then?

Don't say it, please come and try. Like all indians, you're just talk and hot air. No substance. If you want to impose war, go ahead and try. Otherwise keep your mouth shut. Actions speak louder than words. Dribble on the net solves nothing.

 

[帅的一匹]

Hi,

Respectfully---kaho khait ki---suno khalian ki---.

The first thing in car sales 101 is learn to listen to what is being said by the customer---because there is only the time of first 30---45 seconds where a decision has been made by the customer if they buy from you or not.

See---I do not have any issue with getting 8 submarines in the 10 years time period.

The issue I have is having the 5 billion dollars tied to ONE PROJECT for the term of 10 years.

This project could have been easily split in two 5 year periods---. The first 5 billion split in two--2 1/2 for 4 subs---and 2 1/2 billion for the navy and air force---.

And then at the begining of the 5th year another contract signed for 4 more subs.


The reason of it being signed like this is the COMMISION on 5 billion dollars and kick backs---.

With one item for purchase---the commission / kickback is much larger than if it would have included naval vessels and aircraft as well.

In this day and age---there is nothing deceptive about any program---be it on the surface or under waters---. Each and everything is in public domain---. Libraries in the U S are full of INNOCENT MATERIAL---you just need to know where and what to look for---.

Just like you invested your life in the air force---I invested mine in library books---full time.

You lose the chidlren because your screwed up in your assessment of the enemy---you guys wanted to make a vietnam of the U S in afghanistan---not realizing that over 4 million vietnamese died in that conflict and vietnam is still not the same---.

Not realizing that you were allowing a christian army to invade a muslim nation.

If you had listened to this car salesman some 15 years ago and gone in and killed OBL and his team in afg---and had a strong marketing / propaganda campaign against the fundos / terrorists---and not busy in blaming the U S for the 9/11---you would not have been in this place.

If you had listened to this car salesman---you would have made a much better deal with the U S---and what are the americans---they are CAR SALESMEN---the congressmen---the senators---the staffers---the president---the vice---they are worst than a car salesman.

If you had read the history of the Japans---you would have learnt---either they were a warrior clan---or they were a peasant / farmer clan---.

You would have learnt that the japanese warriors were very bad at making deals---but the peasants were very good deal makers---and so were the koreans.

All this blood shed and sacrifice that you mentioned---because you did not make the right deal---you did not recognize your enemy---you did not fight the enemy hard enough right from day one---.

Why were you not able to recognize the enemy---because of a lack of knowledge---because you have the lack of books in your country---no libraries to enlighten the mind and give you information.

Which one of you talks about Pakistan first and keep the islamic brotherhood away---.

If you had known world history---you would have known that there is blood gore death and destruction---murder and plunder of scales unknown from the lands where the U S military has gone thru---.

They murder and butcher in the name of their god---other nations may stop after awhile---but the U S does not know when to stop.

If you had read history my man---you would have know---not to let the Lion get the taste of Blood---. You would not have allowed the christians to kill the muslims---because once the christians found out---that the muslims die as easily as anyone else---they would not stop the killing---.

My brother---you are a good person at heart---we disagree on many issues---but trust me on this---I know the devil beyond your wildest imaginations---.

MK although I respect you a lot, you shall have evidence that China bribe Pakistan to buy 8 subs in one go. It defy China's dignity and bruise Pakistan's ego as well. 8 sub is not that much and 5 billions includes set up assembly line to build 4 subs in Pakistan.

@MastanKhan How do you know PNS doesn't have plan to go for surface fleet in the next few years?

Most of time Pakistan and China keeps cooperation in low down, maybe now the frigate programme is undergoing quietly somewhere. Be it type 057 or 054. Never forget that Pakistan sub once sinked a Indian ship.

 

[HRK]

Alhumdullilh no. Allah's mercy interceded. The investigating officer died.

yaqeenan ''kisi kali zaban wale ki dua lagi ho gi us koooo " .....

 

[CriticalThought]

And stop playing with tactical Nukes drammmmmm , Its extremely dangerous in current and almost lethal (against Pakistan) in future Geo-political environment.
We need to modernize our Armed Forces and we have to increase their capabilities and also numbers , Yes we can not match our enemy in numbers , but better and latest eqm and training is the answer to that . Now just think for a minute , What are we doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes we are almost too late , but if we speed up things we can do it in 5 to 10 years.

Brother, every sane person agrees that we need to build up our naval fleet. There can be no two opinion on that. But, we must look at the reality of the situation as well. A 2:4 ratio of ships 'supported by subs and aircraft' is not good enough because the enemy has more subs and more aircrafts. We also need to answer the very important question: what if the enemy attacks tomorrow? We need a to plan for this contingency.

Rather than mere words, can you please show objectively how it is financially viable for us to become a credible naval power in the next 5 to 10 years that can deter Indian naval aggression? And can you answer the question of how you will defend yourself if the enemy attacks tomorrow?

We are living in a time of a lowered nuclear threshold in South Asia. Indeed, these are dangerous and very sensitive times we are living in. But the fact of the matter is that this lowered nuclear threshold has led to some modicum of peace. And no matter whether me and you like it or not, the army is not going to suddenly change this doctrine.

What are the main tenets of this doctrine? In the face of a massive, overwhelming Indian attack, battle commanders are allowed to use tactical nukes to counter Indian numerical supremacy.

Unfortunately, the sea remains an area where Indian hegemonic designs can succeed and disturb the delicate balance of power. It makes absolute logical sense to extend the doctrine to sea. What are the main tenets of this doctrine? They do not change at all. We are still planning for the contingency of an overwhelming attack to nullify the enemy's numerical advantage. The only thing that changes is the theater of war.

If such a doctrine is adopted, it will still take time to operationalize it. We still need a system for tracking, monitoring, and targeting the enemy. This takes time but I argue that this is the best short to medium term option for us. Hence, instead of arguing amongst ourselves, we need to set forth with determination and make it a possibility.

It must be understood that I am NOT proposing complacency in further development of our naval fleet. That effort needs to progress in parallel with what I call Pakistan's Force Equalizer.

 

[Khafee]

I'll post some itty-bitty open source "facts" about the IN that nobody here seems to be aware of.

1. IN-USN-JMSDF anti-sub exercises have gone a 'little bit' further than what NATO has done to date. Those who know more will know what I'm talking about and why it goes a 'little bit' further.

2. We thought the P-8Is will have our best sensor capabilities. But we were wrong.

3. Underwater tech is something we have very high competence in. That's why it has mostly been indigenized even though we have the best global stuff available to us.

Lastly, I don't understand why people are acting so ignorant. Whatever cooperation the Israelis have with the US in ASW, we have pretty much the same level of cooperation with the Israelis. This is no secret. In fact, we cooperate with the Israelis in some of the most sensitive tech there is.

Open a separate thread and then spew your blind jingoism. Stop derailing this thread.

 

[Hamza913]

Well the enemy does not sympathize with our financial situation and fight according to our plans.

We never have money but corruption and kick backs never stop.

Our plans are based around what the enemy will most likely do, so yes they will most likely fight the way we plan. If they don't, we have many other things to hit them just as hard, if not harder.

 

[randomradio]

Open a separate thread and then spew your blind jingoism. Stop derailing this thread.

The point I made is expanding the PN as the IN's rival is an entirely pointless exercise. That fact doesn't change.

 

[Khafee]

The point I made is expanding the PN as the IN's rival is an entirely pointless exercise. That fact doesn't change.

You didn't make any point, you ranted as usual. So when are you opening a separate thread to rant about how IN is better than NATO in ASW ?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You are insane bro you want substance and actions well read any neutral posts source
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_wars_and_conflicts

if you deny it to be credible then try this
http://www.worthview.com/list-of-wars-between-india-and-pakisthan/

I don't cry on history but look at the graph of wars and its gonna continue even now as a result giving even greater defeat, my last post sorry try to talk facts not here to set illogical posts . You should know this by my low no of my posts, I love discussion with facts with neutral brain and have no interest in idiot like you.

And yet more talk and no action. More delusions yet india still hasn't managed to destroy an enemy that is more than 7x smaller than it and doesn't have abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems like you do

When the war actually starts than please come and talk. Other than that, don't want to hear any more delusional bollywood chit chat

Think you are also suffering from "lesser men" syndrome which is common to your kind. Here is the REAL reason why indian men hate Pakistan so much:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6161691.stm

 

[MastanKhan]

MK although I respect you a lot, you shall have evidence that China bribe Pakistan to buy 8 subs in one go. It defy China's dignity and bruise Pakistan's ego as well. 8 sub is not that much and 5 billions includes set up assembly line to build 4 subs in Pakistan.

@MastanKhan How do you know PNS doesn't have plan to go for surface fleet in the next few years?

Most of time Pakistan and China keeps cooperation in low down, maybe now the frigate programme is undergoing quietly somewhere. Be it type 057 or 054. Never forget that Pakistan sub once sinked a Indian ship.

Hi,

Thank you---a nation cannot live on yesterday's victories and when you have an opponent as devious as it is---you have to be on your toes all the time.

Off course the plan to go for surface fleet was there---but there was no urgency in it---it was all lackadaisical---.

There is no PRE-EMPTIVE---there is no procurement ahead of time---it is all being dragged behind grabbing onto the tail.

 

[deckingraj]

I have omitted some of the stuff and respectfully would want to say that this is my last post on this subject...

Ok so let me clear my point as well hopefully some Moderator and TTA will see some sense in it too ..

Thanks and sure...

if after every Post of your's i start typing " That's a Lie " without giving any proves or details about it , there will be a time when you will get pissed too .. and this is case with MK . He wants to have Rational discussion but his OP is based on a Opinion in which he used disrespectful language and mock the Forces and accused them for been Corrupt and incompetent ... That is where i disagree with him .

please note that more than 90% of the discussions on such forums is based on opinions...there is lot of classified information on defense which is not accessible even in one's dreams and even if you by some chance know a bit about it you wont share it here...so in short it is going to be like that...people who are praising their defense forces or those who are trashing them all are actually doing based on opinions...For example - I have no fukcing proof of your govt. involvement in our backyard and so does you...however we both have our opinions and that is what we share...in fact can defend our respective govt stands howsoever absurd till eternity....i hope you get the drift...

and last , as i mentioned in my Post , MK is not my Eternal enemy , i don't even know him .. but on a international forum like this when you are a Senior member and people respect you than it means you have a responsibility to post Good stuff not garbage based on imagination and Rants ..

I will leave it for you to decide..however trashing a post by calling someone car salesman(as if they are dumb) might also break the same responsibilities and maturity you are expecting from him...

 

[Aasimkhan]

Seriously are you denied of these tech ?? French tech AIP subs ? Russioan mi35 helis? american cobaras, helina, f 16, artillary M110, M109 A2, M109 A5? , BGM , TOW anti tank missiles? turkish anti air systems ? German assault rifles ? and m not even talking about china yet bro, you have china so does india has israel thats all. All russian equipmets are copied and modified so available through china so firstly stop saying that you don't have access ok.
2. If you so belived in being attacked then let me tell you you were not attacked because of following reasons as per my belief
a) The leadership of india was not that strong the gov was stupid
b) India was worried about a full blown out war againts nuke pak (which they keep on yelling about nuking india)
c) Tension with china

That has nothing to do with indian capability , now try one more mumbai and see yourself torn out belive me time is changing

ha ha IB KI MAAR, wasnt URI disgraceful eough ?

 

[帅的一匹]

Hi,

Thank you---a nation cannot live on yesterday's victories and when you have an opponent as devious as it is---you have to be on your toes all the time.

Off course the plan to go for surface fleet was there---but there was no urgency in it---it was all lackadaisical---.

There is no PRE-EMPTIVE---there is no procurement ahead of time---it is all being dragged behind grabbing onto the tail.

MK, i followed your post most of the time, especially your passion for deep strike fighter like JH7 and J16, you shall have visions! My suggestion in this point for you is: stay patient. Pakistan can't go bullet for bullet against India, the gap of economy scale is too large. That's why we need CPEC to make the gap smaller in every perspectives. As the Benifits of building sub assembly line in Pakistan, it is very important in the long run than surface fleet. It renders Pakistan Asymmetric advantage.

If PNS chooses to go for large scale of surface fleet instead of subs, Indians will be feel more than just happy.

 

[Aasimkhan]

MK, i followed your post most of the time, especially your passion for deep strike fighter like JH7 and J16, you shall have visions! My suggestion in this point for you is: stay patient. Pakistan can't go bullet for bullet against India, the gap of economy scale is too large. That's why we need CPEC to make the gap smaller in every perspectives. As the Benifits of building sub assembly line in Pakistan, it is very important in the long run than surface fleet. It renders Pakistan Asymmetric advantage.

If PNS chooses to go for large scale of surface fleet instead of subs, Indians will be feel more than just happy.

excellent analysis, rather than numbers we should focus on FORCE MULTIPLIERS.