Pakistan may Purchase Chinese Surface-to-Air Missile System HQ-9

[dy1022]

FD2000 and KS-1A in Turkmenistan, already sold to Uzbekistan and offered to Thailand.

 

[ADIL SHERDIL]

PAKISTAN should purchase s300 with tot and make the air space unthinkable for IAF. because with current situation of F16 deal pakistan need to invest heavily on medium to long range SAMS. S-400 is excellent piece of machinery but i think if china gets them (which they will) they will do there magic and make it even better. As for india i read so much articles on this forum they are always interfering in others procurement threads. they should mind there own business like MBT arjun HAL tejas and Mother of all deals RAFALE DEALS for 126 jets Opps sorry i mean 36 jets now my guess is they only needed brochures to read about this jet

 

[War Thunder]

These news of Pakistan trying to buy HQ-9 and 16 from Sinos have been there since quite a while..
Secondly PAF is a defensive airfirce i.e main role is to score kills and protect the airspace in case of Indian intrusion instead of initiating an air attack on India.
Therefore it is very unlikely that a S-400 will shoot the Pakistani birds but any platform like HQ-9 is bound to score a lot of kills in case of an Indian intrusion.

I must say sir, you have poor or little understanding of PAF and Aerial Warfare in general and the history of Pak - india conflicts.
The only way PAF was able to keep the numerical advantage of indians at bay was by being more aggressive and blowing them up while their birds were grounded.

Do you believe PAF or any proper airforce will keep all of its assets for defense of the aerial borders only? That means you allow the enemy to use all its assets for offensive purposes without having to fear an offense and they can divert you in one direction and strike elsewhere.

If the enemy knows you will get them in their own backyard, and you keep them guessing where..... that's when they have to keep more of their assets at home...

 

[帅的一匹]

PAKISTAN should purchase s300 with tot and make the air space unthinkable for IAF. because with current situation of F16 deal pakistan need to invest heavily on medium to long range SAMS. S-400 is excellent piece of machinery but i think if china gets them (which they will) they will do there magic and make it even better. As for india i read so much articles on this forum they are always interfering in others procurement threads. they should mind there own business like MBT arjun HAL tejas and Mother of all deals RAFALE DEALS for 126 jets Opps sorry i mean 36 jets now my guess is they only needed brochures to read about this jet

TOT of S300 from Russia is not gonna be possible, No one TOT strategic weapon. Russia sells India S400 and you buys S300 to counter it, what a logic. Russo will be very happy to do double side business.

 

[ADIL SHERDIL]

actually by s300 i mean Chinese version of it. hq-9

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

I must say sir, you have poor or little understanding of PAF and Aerial Warfare in general and the history of Pak - india conflicts.
The only way PAF was able to keep the numerical advantage of indians at bay was by being more aggressive and blowing them up while their birds were grounded.

Do you believe PAF or any proper airforce will keep all of its assets for defense of the aerial borders only? That means you allow the enemy to use all its assets for offensive purposes without having to fear an offense and they can divert you in one direction and strike elsewhere.

If the enemy knows you will get them in their own backyard, and you keep them guessing where..... that's when they have to keep more of their assets at home...

You are talking about a scenario of a full blown war which is very unlikely to happen b/w Pak and Ind due to a lot of practical reasons.
The most probable scenario is an IAF offensive inside Pakistan on a 'terrorist outfit' inorder to 'punish' Pakistan for a terrorist attack inside India.
In such a case IAF has to face Pakistani SAMs instead of PAF facing any S400.
That said,the above doesn't mean that PAF is not prepared for a full scale war.In that case,there are a lot of other factors to consider in addition to SAMs.

 

[Basel]

These are Pakistani airbases.

Except Pasni airforcebase in Balochistan, each airbase is with in 400 km from Indian border.

90% of Pakistani airbases are within 300 Kms from India border.

If S400s are place 100 kms in Inside India border, along an axis parallel to Pakistan, as you claimed in your post.

Each and and every aircraft, taking off or landing on these bases, will be at a potential risk of being shot down.

For Babur to target S400 , Pakistan will need exact location of S 400 components because.

1. Because Babur is not a anti radiation missile.

2. Damage radius of a cruise missile like Babur is only couple of hundred meters.

It will hard to get exact location of S400 components.

1. Because Pakistani recon flights over S400 batteries, will be shot down.

2. S 400 is a mobile system, its component can quickly change their location.

3. Pakistan does not own any real time, imaging satellites.

Even if, Pakistan some how manages to get the exact co-ordinates of S400 components. 9M96 missiles of S 400 family has been specifically designed to engage low fly cruise missile.

Even if 9M96 missile fails to engage Babur , there is always Pantsir S1 point defense cannons, protecting S 400 components from low flying threats.



Where as my sources are not imaginary and can be presented to other posters.

India will be very daring if they deploy S-400's 400km range missile batteries within 100km from border, because India knows that Pakistan can track and rain hell on any system in this range using various type of systems, therefore in war there are rare chances that India will bring those that close to border.

Pakistan can hit targets upto 350km from border with easy as we have many systems available to do that.

 

[Skaði]

1. Because Pakistani recon flights over S400 batteries, will be shot down.

2. S 400 is a mobile system, its component can quickly change their location.

@Sven / @SvenSvensonov (if you're unimpressed by a person that has only thirty posts, try looking at his original account instead. The guy knows his sh*t) had a nice take on some of these points, which are not correct in some instances, in response to a query posed by @Spectre

take a look (I've bolded Spectre's questions):

- Would you characterize the purchase - strategic or tactical?

Strategic. Long-ranged missiles and a high-powered radar, it's for protecting critical targets, military and civilian.

People will tell you the system is mobile, and it can move, but it's not a high-mobility air defense system that can shoot while moving, like NASAMS can:

S-400 is a big, cumbersome weapon systems that combines a lot of parts that need time to setup, warmup, sweep for targets and then engage them.

These S-400 batteries have been setup in Syria following the incident with Turkey:

- How much stock can we put on S-400, there is vast division of opinion regarding it's efficacy with Russians hyping it's virtues

A lot of stock. Russia does two things very well. Missiles and electronic warfare, offense and defense. The US considers this to be one of the most threatening SAM systems on Earth.

other parties indicating that it can be countered easily with EW and or saturation attacks which is likely to be the case in major conflict.

Also a lot. Because nations recognize this is a threatening platform and are or have developed hardkill and softkill countermeasures to defeat it. It's susceptible to electronic attack, and it can be overwhelmed too by decoys, jammers, chaff countermeasures, saturation attacks by drones, artillery and rocket fire... there's a lot of ways it can be overwhelmed.

But the S-400 launchers aren't alone. In this photo, also of an S-400 battery in Syria, we can see a Pantsir S-1 that has been deployed alongside S-400. It's job is to defeat rocket, artillery and mortar fire, and low-flying aircraft like UAVs or attack jets and helicopters.

We recognize S-400 is a threat, and they recognize we can threaten S-400. Both sides have measures to lessen the effectiveness of the other's measures and countermeasures.

- Are there other comparable systems in which we have access to in arms market? If not then are there any domestic projects in development.

I don't follow Indian missile defense systems too closely, so I can't answer the question pertaining to domestic projects or developments, but I can answer the first part and the answer is "No".

Unless you're buying Chinese variants, there's nothing on the market that can provide the same capabilities in a land-based system.

For naval SAMS, it's a different story, but SAM development in outside of Russia and China is mainly centered around short-to-medium ranged anti-aircraft missiles like surface launched AMRAAM (See NASAMS) or ESSM and SAMP/T or ballistic missile defense like the medium range MEADS:

And longer ranged THAAD:

Neither MEADS nor THAAD are very capable against aircraft. And SAMP/T, NASAMS and comparable missiles lack range and don't perform well against missile threats.

S-400 combines a bit of both. Capable and long-range anti-aircraft and short-range, and less competent anti-missile capabilities.

- How much areas can one of these system can cover - We probably have around 40- 50 HVT in India.

That depends on where it's being put. How far can the radar see? Are there obstructions that can mask an hostile force in the distance that would obscure targeting or confuse a radar operator, like mountains or trees? Is the missile system on a hill or in a valley that would hamper its sensors ability to track and identify targets at greater ranges.

What altitude is the missile system at? Different altitudes lead to different performances by the missile, same with humidity or dry air.

The Earth's not flat or uniform and there's a lot that can affect the missile and sensors performance.

You'll see all sorts of maps, promotional photos, posts and claims of S-400's 400km ranges.

But that's not realistic given, plus only one missile in an S-400 system has that range and it's for intercepting large aircraft like heavy bombers or AWACS platforms.

- Is it likely to change the military balance b/w India-Pakistan and if Yes then to what extent?

It'll hamper the effectiveness of Pakistani cruise missiles and aircraft, even over Pakistani airspace. It's a potent weapon system that can't be downplayed.

Will it change the military balance? I never suggest anything can because for every system there's an antidote to foil it, but it shouldn't be underestimated or brushed off either.

It's no wonder weapon, as many are extoled here on PDF but certain members of certain nationalities, but it's a damn fine piece of kit too.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

this attitude will keep you behind.
"Will not let us".. make them give you, improve relations and move from there

We don't need the west, today China and Turkey are investing in the next 5th generation stealth jet, both of them have also produced state of the art MBT's that can help us with tot in producing Al-Khalid 2, we can also acquire quality SAM's from both those two allies as well as Russia, we are also in the process of buying 8 submarines from China that will be fitted with the nuclear capable naval version of Barbur cruise missile, I think you have forgotten but recently Russia lifted it's cold war era arms embargo from Pakistan and recently sold Mi-35, with India today willing to sit on the US lap do you really think Russia would not be interested in improving ties with the nation that brought down the USSR?

We have suffered enough being an ally to the USA, after all that we have done for them we would have been in a far better and a stronger position had we allied with Russia, we don't need the west and their hypocrisy.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide

Indian propaganda:

https://defence.pk/threads/hypocris...th-busting-the-bangladesh-war-of-1971.369878/

 

[DavidSling]

Or my your own authors and generals? Who expose your states propaganda!

Anyway, this discussion took a sharp turn.
Gratz Pakistan for the new system, may it will bring more stability to the region

 

[waz]

Good move, the HQ9 is an incredibly potent system, which uses a powerful AESA radar. With missiles travelling at mach 4.2 and engaging at a max range of 200km, you can pretty much blunt forward strikes coming in.

 

[mb444]

Well hope we get it but hope Bangladeshi won't buy it too

Bangladesh inevitably likely to purchase it in time..... Not sure why it should bother Pakistan...

 

[帅的一匹]

Good move, the HQ9 is an incredibly potent system, which uses a powerful AESA radar. With missiles travelling at mach 4.2 and engaging at a max range of 200km, you can pretty much blunt forward strikes coming in.

Maybe China will sell PA the 200 KM version, same range as the HQ9 PLa uses. This is iron brother relationship. How many PA is gonna induct?

 

[vsdave2302]

PAKISTAN should purchase s300 with tot and make the air space unthinkable for IAF. because with current situation of F16 deal pakistan need to invest heavily on medium to long range SAMS. S-400 is excellent piece of machinery but i think if china gets them (which they will) they will do there magic and make it even better. As for india i read so much articles on this forum they are always interfering in others procurement threads. they should mind there own business like MBT arjun HAL tejas and Mother of all deals RAFALE DEALS for 126 jets Opps sorry i mean 36 jets now my guess is they only needed brochures to read about this jet

I agree with you. When china itself has buy s 400 inspite of having HQ 9, it tells a story of its own. Yes, As you says, If Pakistan buys S 300, it will be very difficult for IAF to penetrate Pakistani sky. If Pakistan shows its intention, india will try to stop russia from selling it to pakistan like they stoped \US to sell F 16 to Pakistan.

Good move, the HQ9 is an incredibly potent system, which uses a powerful AESA radar. With missiles travelling at mach 4.2 and engaging at a max range of 200km, you can pretty much blunt forward strikes coming in.

But my choice is S300. That is very fast, has a long range , A great flight envalope and great accuracy and recognized by all. Turkey has already rejected HQ 9.