Pakistan, Iran connected by inseparable bonds: Imran Khan

[padamchen]

Hahahahaha....

Do you think that you are part English too since they also conquered and ruled Hindush?



No we're not. I saw some clips from Pakistani tv and movies a few times and they were uber Indian in style, language and looks. Also the food is like 100% Hindo tasting and smelling.

Just this summer the BBC put on an entire season of programming dedicated to the culture of Pakistan/India/Bangladesh people and their immigrant community in the UK and they are nothing like Iranians.



I agree but in reality we have different enemies so that wont happen.

Your enemies are India and Afghanistan. We dont have problems with Afghanistan or India. India is an important consumer of Iranian oil and around 15% to maybe even 20% of Afghanistan has an ethnic relationship with Iran (Tajiks). Iran is also an important investor in Afghanistan's reconstruction in the western part of that country and also in Kabul.

Our enemies on the other hand are Saudi Arabia, UAE, Israel and the US. Pakistan is a client state of the US and subordinate of Saudi Arabia who feeds millions of your people and dictates your energy policy whether it is good business practice for you or not.

Pakistan is too poor and backwards to break away from anti-Iran cliques with power like Saudi and Israeli controlled US officials. Just being real.


Lol bro.

Perfectly explained to a pan Islamist dreamer.

Your shared civilizational cuzinhood is with Vedic Hindus.

Diluted and mixed over millennia of mixing with native Dravidian bloodlines (moolnivasi) as they may be, that is the tenuous link.

What you hear drummed in threads like these are thousand year old links of a new conquering faith that originated from Arabia and transplanted itself on both.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

No you're not. None of those ancient peoples were South Asians or had any connection to your people except for maybe conquering some Indian kingdoms.

Parthians were from northeast Iran, they came from what is today known as Semnan in Iran. They have nothing to do with Pakistanis and Indians.

Likewise Scythians were a distant cousin people of Iranians, they had nothing to do with Pakistanis except for raiding and attacking northwest India sometimes.

Hephthalites were invaders and nomads from the Asian steppe that didnt even exist when the Achaemenids were around. They came much later. They had more in common with Chinese and Mongolians than with you.

Dude, just stop. Stop lying to yourself and stop trying to relate yourself to people that invaded and conquered your ancestors. I never saw this with any other nationality of people so desperate to deny who and what they are and try to take pride in being ruled by foreigners that have nothing to do with their own race and people...

The fertile Indus valley saw waves of constant migrations from Central Asia. These were not solely invading armies, but entire tribes and settled in the same fashion as Saxons to the British Isles or Visigoths to Spain. They mixed with locals, forming their own unique cultures and eventually the major ethnic groups of Pakistan as we see today.

Jatts for example, who make up a quarter of the Pakistani population are thought to have been descendants of the Indo-Scythians. These are claims NOT made by us; but by Western anthropologists, historians and other experts in those type of fields. An average Pakistani is too caught up in life to give a damn of who is ancestors were.

Many settlers were various Iranic peoples, who have a massive genetic footprint on modern-day Pakistan. There is absolutely no denying this, the irrefutable evidence is there.

We don't claim to be Iranian. At the end of the day; we are a separate and distinct people despite some similarities. A Pakistani would be offended being called a Farsi or Indian, that transgresses our identity.

But today many people that call themselves Balouch are clearly not related to those original Iranian tribes by ancestry but are some kind of indigenous remnant population plus Gypsy type tribes that originated from India. This is especially true on the Pakistan side of Balouchestan where lots of them look like Indians / Gypsies and you can hear the Indian influence in their dialects.

You keep repeating pseudo-scientific self-hypothesis without providing any factual evidence or support. The only evidence you have provided so far is a laughable youtube vlog.

On the coastal areas some of the Balouch have African ancestry and other ones claim to have an ancestral connection to Omanis and other Arabs (may or may not be true, but probably is for a small number of Balouch).

They are called Makranis or Siddis and they don't claim to be Baloch.

Both of those peoples are historically tribal confederations that dont all have a single ancestral origin. That's the nature of migratory and semi-nomadic tribal confederations are.

This is the only thing I agree with you.

That's just a lie. Those two languages are pretty much the same. I even saw a travel vlog from a guy who had learnt Hindi that visited Pakistan and everyone there understood him. He even said himself that when learning the two languages they're basically the same.

Urdu is a persianized form of Hindustani language (not hindi) which was spoken 1000 years ago.

Stop telling lies. Urdo and Hindi are the same language. People who speak them easily understand and communicate with each other. I've seen it countless times for myself.

Pure Urdu and Hindi are extremely different. What we actually speak is a diluted and broken version of Urdu/Hindustani and hence why we can understand each other. If you want examples of pure Urdu, look at Allama Iqbal's poetry or the Pakistani national anthem.

Pakistanis that speak English does not make them British.
Even so, it does not matter. Urdu is not a native language to us, it was introduced as a national language so no native language takes preference over another.

Anyone with a brain can see how closely connected Pakistanis are with Indians by race, language, culture and history.

Race: Pakistanis are genetically distinct from Indians.
Language: Urdu is a foreign language to us. Native Pakistani languages are only spoken by 3-5% of the Indian population.
Culture: Pakistan does not have a single culture and is diverse, all of our major cultures are starkly different from Indian cultures.
History: In the 4,000-7,000 year old history of the Indus region, there has only been one Indian Empire that conquered and ruled over the Indus region and that too for less than a hundred years before they were driven back. Pakistanis share a longer history with Iranians than they do with Indians (excluding British and Mughal occupations). The native Kingdoms/Empires such as the Gandharas that ruled over the region were culturally distinct from both Indians and Persians.

Hindu scriptures refer to the people of the 5 rivers as "Bahlika" meaning outsiders/foreigners. They followed an incompatible religion and culture to the Hindus.

Pakistan is too poor and backwards to break away from anti-Iran cliques with power like Saudi and Israeli controlled US officials. Just being real.

Pakistan has no intention breaking away with Saudi Arabia or the US, it is simply not in our interests. It has nothing to do with being "poor" and "backward" as you ridiculously claim. You're a country with a shrinking economy, that cannot even accomplish (nuclear program) what we did decades ago and you have the audacity to call us a "poor" and "backwards" nation?

Your Pakistan 'identity' is a fake product of British colonial era policy to divide and rule your race on the basis of their religion so that they could control you and exploit you as their slaves while they looted the resources from your country/QUOTE]
That's quite the opposite as the British were the first to attempt imposing an "Indian" identity on us.

Don't forget, Iranians were British puppets as well. The only difference is that the British lost countless lives trying to subjugate us, they fought constant revolts up till the creation of Pakistan while the Iranians willingly gave their sovereignty away.

 

[padamchen]

U r wrong,,,u read wring history.Pakistanis r a martial bhayya race,,,who fought bravely with each n every invader,,almost winning every time but eventually lost coz of the treachery of few,,n also coz native kings were always treating thm badly so they wanted regime change,,otherwise they always strong martial race,,there bravery was so phenomenal tht every time invaders were impressed by thr valor n gave thr daughters to these martial bhayya people for marriage.this is how Pakistan got its genetic diversity,,,,True story
Most Pakistani bhayyas have persian,arab,turkish,central asia or nordic ancestry,,,,,absolutely nothng to do with north India or any India for tht matter.
So they r right in claiming tht they r same ppl as Iranians

Also perfectly explained. Lolzzzz

Cheers, Doc

Except India, you are correct. I would also include Turkey as it has a strong historical relationship with Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iran.

Much of the propaganda in Iran about India and Indian culture is false. Iranians are just as deluded as Arabs in relation to the Indian Hindu fanatics. Try watching some speeches from Modi, Yogi, and their BJP/RSS cadres. You will see how much hate they have for Muslims, Arabs, Persians, Turks, and Pakistanis.

Indian civilization is based on the Ganges civilization which is centered on the east, along with Bangladesh. Pakistani civilization is based on the Indus river, which we call Sappta Sindh. For example, the story about Sindh-ibadi is based on a Pakistani sailor from Sindh settled in Basra.

Dude, quit already.

Indians love Afghans. And consider Persians civilizational Aryan cuzins.

It's radicalised Sunni Islam you will find most non Muslim Indians having a serious problem with.

Most Indians look at Shias very differently. I'm not a Muslim so please don't say I'm sectarian. I'm just contributing the Indian narrative here to pour water on your blinkered pan Islamist one.

Do try harder.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Mamluk]

Most Indians look at Shias very differently. I'm not a Muslim so please don't say I'm sectarian.

Why? You like Hazrat Ali (RA)? Or just Divide&Kill politics?

 

[padamchen]

Why? You like Hazrat Ali (RA)? Or just Divide&Kill politics?

I am indifferent.

Though I do tend to gravitate towards Shias. (My best friend in my boyhood years, till we left school, though, was a Sunni and is now pretty hardcore).

Especially the clean shaven educated liberal Indian or Irani ones.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Mamluk]

Especially the clean shaven educated liberal Indian or Irani ones.

Cheers, Doc

I could find you a clean shaven educated Sunni man if you'd like. Not convinced that's the reason you 'prefer' Shias over Sunni.

 

[padamchen]

I could find you a clean shaven educated Sunni man if you'd like. Not convinced that's the reason you 'prefer' Shias over Sunni.

Of course man. Allow me some time for a longer reply.

We have some really high class good family Sunnis in India. Blue bloods.

But let's face it, the majority moved with you.

And our perceptions get colored accordingly.

But I'd like to speak more on the Irani than the desi angle. Later.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Valar.]

Kaptaan Sahb... your services are required here.

@Indus Pakistan

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Kaptaan Sahb... your services are required here.

@Indus Pakistan

Interesting. Thanks for tagging. I will jump in later when I get time and size up the discussion is about. I hope it's not @padamchen trying to say Paks are 'Indics' and there is a fracture running in middle of Pakistan between Iranic/Indo-Aryan. The irony being he himself is a deposit Iranic in a ocean of Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic and Indo Aryan. Anybody see the contradiction?

Ps. My position is pretty similar @Talwar e Pakistan who has posted stuff that is congruent to my thinking.

 

[padamchen]

Interesting. Thanks for tagging. I will jump in later when I get time and size up the discussion is about. I hope it's not @padamchen trying to say Paks are 'Indics' and there is a fracture running in middle of Pakistan between Iranic/Indo-Aryan. The irony being he himself is a deposit Iranic in a ocean of Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic and Indo Aryan. Anybody see the contradiction?

Ps. My position is pretty similar @Talwar e Pakistan who has posted stuff that is congruent to my thinking.

Lol

Its true though.

But that's not what I'm saying here.

I'm rubbishing pan Islamist linkages. Something you would love to do but oftentimes need to resist the urge. Strongly.

Do catch up quickly. Should be fun.

Cheers, Doc

 

[MultaniGuy]

Indian also eat meat.. what are you trying to say?

I agree with @Iqbal Ali , we are Punjabi, Pashtun, Sindhi, Baloch and Kashmiris. We got nothing to do with most of Iran or india except small baloch population of Iran and Punjabi who happen to be 2% of Indian population.. and that is logical, almost all countries share some land border does share some linkage.. but you don't deny their unique identity..

Pakistan is a unique country with it's own history and culture.

As for Urdu and Hindi, well in written form it's quite different (litreture) and Bollywood is mostly infulenced by Urdu not otherway around.. but denying that you can't communicate with a Hindi speaker in Urdu is complete Bullshit, Urdu was originated in UP, Bihar, not in Multan or Lahore.

Anyways the Urdu is lagacy of british empire, it was imposed on our ethnicities during British Raj. If it's.upto me I would have get rid of it and impose any small language of Pakistan as national language..

Hindi has quite different vocabulary to Urdu, bhai.

Even saying "thank you" in Hindi is different to saying "thank you" in Urdu.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Pakistan is a unique country with it's own history and culture.

As you pointed out we are Pakhtun, Punjabi, Baloch, Sindhi, Kashmiri painted over the canvas of the Indus Valley geography. This amalgam or alloy makes us unique.

Take the humble iron. Add carbon to it and you get a alloy we call steel. And we all know steel is unique and we differantiate it from iron. As you pointed out only Punjab spills over into India and they only make about 2% of India. I know Dawn newspaper often runs the theme "hey we are same" to the delight of Indian's. The go is grab a Indian from Bihar and he lands in Karachi where he encounters Bihari basti and then that gives him the chance to sing the song "we be same". By that measure a Sikh would feel more at home in Southall, London then in Delhi and a Indian Gujrati more at home in Leicester, UK then in Kolkatta.

The fact is overwhelming number of Pakistani's [excess of 95%] are products of the history played out on the Indus Valley over the last 8,000 years which is not the same as Ganga or Dravid India. This is not to say we don't share much. Yes we do. We even share 99% genome with chimps and some % with bananas.

If people expect one country to have Martians living and the other next door Neanderthals that is not going to happen. Germany and Poland is not some huge divergent chasm but 99% same on both sides. Ditto Polish/Estonia, ditto Russia/Belarus, ditto Portugal/Spain etc

Then you have the farce called US/Canadian border. It's just dividing one bunch of Anglo culture from another Anglo culture.

Anyways the Urdu is lagacy of british empire, it was imposed on our ethnicities during British Raj. If it's.upto me I would have get rid of it and impose any small language of Pakistan as national language..

Agreed. Urdu is direct imposition of the British Empire.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

How many Pakistani communicate in such salees urdu within their social circle?

Most of us speak Urdu with words from our local dialects like Pukhto, Punjabi, Sindhi, etc.

We can all aspire to speak Urdu with that literary prowess.

The fertile Indus valley saw waves of constant migrations from Central Asia. These were not solely invading armies, but entire tribes and settled in the same fashion as Saxons to the British Isles or Visigoths to Spain. They mixed with locals, forming their own unique cultures and eventually the major ethnic groups of Pakistan as we see today.

Jatts for example, who make up a quarter of the Pakistani population are thought to have been descendants of the Indo-Scythians. These are claims NOT made by us; but by Western anthropologists, historians and other experts in those type of fields. An average Pakistani is too caught up in life to give a damn of who is ancestors were.

Many settlers were various Iranic peoples, who have a massive genetic footprint on modern-day Pakistan. There is absolutely no denying this, the irrefutable evidence is there.

View attachment 502515
View attachment 502516

We don't claim to be Iranian. At the end of the day; we are a separate and distinct people despite some similarities. A Pakistani would be offended being called a Farsi or Indian, that transgresses our identity.


You keep repeating pseudo-scientific self-hypothesis without providing any factual evidence or support. The only evidence you have provided so far is a laughable youtube vlog.

They are called Makranis or Siddis and they don't claim to be Baloch.


This is the only thing I agree with you.




Pure Urdu and Hindi are extremely different. What we actually speak is a diluted and broken version of Urdu/Hindustani and hence why we can understand each other. If you want examples of pure Urdu, look at Allama Iqbal's poetry or the Pakistani national anthem.

Pakistanis that speak English does not make them British.
Even so, it does not matter. Urdu is not a native language to us, it was introduced as a national language so no native language takes preference over another.

Race: Pakistanis are genetically distinct from Indians.
Language: Urdu is a foreign language to us. Native Pakistani languages are only spoken by 3-5% of the Indian population.
Culture: Pakistan does not have a single culture and is diverse, all of our major cultures are starkly different from Indian cultures.
History: In the 4,000-7,000 year old history of the Indus region, there has only been one Indian Empire that conquered and ruled over the Indus region and that too for less than a hundred years before they were driven back. Pakistanis share a longer history with Iranians than they do with Indians (excluding British and Mughal occupations). The native Kingdoms/Empires such as the Gandharas that ruled over the region were culturally distinct from both Indians and Persians.

Hindu scriptures refer to the people of the 5 rivers as "Bahlika" meaning outsiders/foreigners. They followed an incompatible religion and culture to the Hindus.


Pakistan has no intention breaking away with Saudi Arabia or the US, it is simply not in our interests. It has nothing to do with being "poor" and "backward" as you ridiculously claim. You're a country with a shrinking economy, that cannot even accomplish (nuclear program) what we did decades ago and you have the audacity to call us a "poor" and "backwards" nation?



Don't forget, Iranians were British puppets as well. The only difference is that the British lost countless lives trying to subjugate us, they fought constant revolts up till the creation of Pakistan while the Iranians willingly gave their sovereignty away.

Great synopsis. Hit it right on the nail.

As you pointed out we are Pakhtun, Punjabi, Baloch, Sindhi, Kashmiri painted over the canvas of the Indus Valley geography. This amalgam or alloy makes us unique.

Take the humble iron. Add carbon to it and you get a alloy we call steel. And we all know steel is unique and we differantiate it from iron. As you pointed out only Punjab spills over into India and they only make about 2% of India. I know Dawn newspaper often runs the theme "hey we are same" to the delight of Indian's. The go is grab a Indian from Bihar and he lands in Karachi where he encounters Bihari basti and then that gives him the chance to sing the song "we be same". By that measure a Sikh would feel more at home in Southall, London then in Delhi and a Indian Gujrati more at home in Leicester, UK then in Kolkatta.

The fact is overwhelming number of Pakistani's [excess of 95%] are products of the history played out on the Indus Valley over the last 8,000 years which is not the same as Ganga or Dravid India. This is not to say we don't share much. Yes we do. We even share 99% genome with chimps and some % with bananas.

If people expect one country to have Martians living and the other next door Neanderthals that is not going to happen. Germany and Poland is not some huge divergent chasm but 99% same on both sides. Ditto Polish/Estonia, ditto Russia/Belarus, ditto Portugal/Spain etc

Then you have the farce called US/Canadian border. It's just dividing one bunch of Anglo culture from another Anglo culture.

Agreed. Urdu is direct imposition of the British Empire.

Another great synopsis.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Most of us speak Urdu with words from our local dialects like Pukhto, Punjabi, Sindhi, etc.

We can all aspire to speak Urdu with that literary prowess.

Besides that, Urdu is the unifying language of Pakistan.

Those who say Urdu is foreign to Pakistan are fooling themselves.

Urdu is here, and is not going away anytime soon.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Why? You like Hazrat Ali (RA)? Or just Divide&Kill politics?

Lol. Non-Muslim internet crusaders are always trying to play the sectarian divide.

Sunnis and Shias aren’t very different in religious practice. We don’t have many issues in Pakistan.

Deobandi Hanafi Sunni Muslims tend to have similar political views also to Iranian Ithna Ashari Shia Muslims.