Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[Advocate Pakistan]

The ATMACA has no (correct me if I'm wrong) radar or camera, so a network enabled missile that gives nothing in return is useless, no?

With the military satellites in the sky, GPS, INS devices are also a kind of sensor. Feeding back the location information back to control. There are other types of seekers and sensors too, like ARH, IR. Network enabling also allows the handing over of the weapon control to the other platform.
It helps increase the kill probability and also as the missile can deviate from its flight path due to weather conditions or decoys, the controller can readjust the flight path.

 

[Penguin]

The ATMACA has no (correct me if I'm wrong) radar or camera, so a network enabled missile that gives nothing in return is useless, no?

Guidance = Inertial Navigation System (INS)/Global Positioning System (GPS) + RAdar + Data Link
Seeker = active RF (i.e. an onboard radar)

It's the DL (datalink) that makes your missile network enabled (depending on what kind of DL e.g. one-way or two-way) and suitable for long range engagements (target data refresh via DL).

For the SOM missile, the guidance system comprises:

• INS / GPS
• Terrain Referenced Navigation
• Image Based Navigation
• Automatic Target Recognition
• Imaging Infrared Seeker

An inertial navigation system (INS) is a navigation aid that uses a computer, motion sensors (accelerometers) and rotation sensors (gyroscopes) to continuously calculate via dead reckoning the position, orientation, and velocity (direction and speed of movement) of a moving object without the need for external references

The Global Positioning System (GPS), originally Navstar GPS, is a space-based radionavigation system owned by the United States government and operated by the United States Air Force. It is a global navigation satellite system that provides geolocation and time information to a GPS receiver anywhere on or near the Earth where there is an unobstructed line of sight to four or more GPS satellites. Other satellite navigation systems in use or various states of development include:

• GLONASS – Russia's global navigation system. Fully operational worldwide.
• Galileo – a global system being developed by the European Union and other partner countries, which began operation in 2016, and is expected to be fully deployed by 2020.
• Beidou – People's Republic of China's regional system, currently limited to Asia and the West Pacific, global coverage planned to be operational by 2020
• IRNSS - A regional navigation system developed by the Indian Space Research Organisation.

Terrain Referenced Navigation is a navigation procedure in which the current position of the aircraft is determined by means of a section of the terrain profile of the respectively overflown area, called the flight route , using a digital terrain model and made available for navigation. TRN is terrain-based navigation with instruments. Aided by ground following radar and laser altimeter.

Automatic target recognition (ATR), is the ability for an algorithm or device to recognize targets or objects based on data obtained from sensors.

Image-based navigation aims at navigating objects by processing series of image data. These image data may be recorded with passive sensors like digital cameras or active instruments like laser scanners. Image-based navigation allows to extend the definition of navigation beyond the so far primarily geometric task.

 

[Advocate Pakistan]

Guidance = Inertial Navigation System (INS)/Global Positioning System (GPS) + RAdar + Data Link
Seeker = active RF (i.e. an onboard radar)

It's the DL (datalink) that makes your missile network enabled (depending on what kind of DL e.g. one-way or two-way) and suitable for long range engagements (target data refresh via DL).

For the SOM missile, the guidance system comprises:

• INS / GPS
• Terrain Referenced Navigation
• Image Based Navigation
• Automatic Target Recognition
• Imaging Infrared Seeker

Thank God someone came to the rescue. I was gonna give up explaining.

 

[Basel]

Nothing has been finalised yet.
Most probably Chinese.

Hope it comes with good western sensors and weapons package.

So this isn't something new, this is basically the ability to change targets, most missiles that can hit moving targets can do that too

It is said that it will have ability to hover or fly over certain area and guide other weapons to targets or provide area data to command center.

 

[Penguin]

It is said that it will have ability to hover or fly over certain area and guide other weapons to targets or provide area data to command center.

Loitering 'hanging around' a certain area and providing data to base (i.e. using a 2-way data link, so that the missile cannot only receive information but also send back new data, either to base or to other weapons i.e. functioning as a remote sensor)

 

[-------]

That spreadsheet is already getting out-dated soon as 'Harpoon Block II+' will be further enhanced with Data-Link.

http://navy-matters.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/harpoon-block-ii-what-changed-in-three.html

Some of the comments on the blog make good analysis of having a Network-Enabled weapon

 

[MastanKhan]

The Muslim intelligentsia in Turkey firmly believes that it's their duty to help Pak in all ways possible no matter how trivial or infinitesimal it is!!!! I am pretty sure the feelings are mutual!! If they have a plan to send Ebraha from Yemen, Irak, Syria etc. those Sheyatin need to understand that they'll also find Ebabil fully ready and equipped!!!!! As for the results, read Sura El-Fil that every Muslim kid knows by heart!!!!!

Hi,

I believe that the reality has hit Turkey very hard that they have to look inside their circle of influence---rather than outside of it---.

Inside its circle of influence---Turkey holds a top position---outside of it---it becomes an ordinary nation.

If the inner circle of influence gets stronger---the force will carry its influence outwards as well.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Turkey can be Economic Giant !

If it can figure out that if it serviced the Muslim countries with various technical solutions / Engineering it can be Germany of Muslim world

I always find so much similarities in German / Turkish design on various products

And I am not talking about Defence products , I am generally talking about day to day items
in Electronics, Food products , Home usage items , Medical items etc

Business chances lie across North Africa to far east asia for Turkey

 

[Advocate Pakistan]

Yes, agree with the posters above and On top of that I would like to add that Turkey should stop looking towards joining European Union because no matter what the Europeans won't treat Turkey as a leader. Turkey should look towards the Central Asian Turkish States and lead them as it enjoys considerable influence in those countries. Similarly Pakistan should leave SAARC for better and start confidence building measures in Central Asia with help from Turkey. ECO was a good platform with lots of scope but the issues with Iran and Afghanistan dilemma remains an obstacle somewhat. However, if we start working on an alliance between Turkey, Turkish States in Central Asia and Pakistan than maybe 20-30 years down the line, we can tilt the majority Afghan views in the Alliance's favour with Turkmen, Uzbek and Pashtoon especially favouring the alliance.
So, we should start working alot on cultural exchanges, people to people contacts, learning each other's languages, better communication systems between our countries and especially provide students with lots of scholarships from countries of this brotherhood.
However, at present Turkey should remain with the NATO and continue to develop it's defence industry, same applies to Pakistan who should develop her defence industry especially in areas of Ballistic Missile Defence with help from China and even Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmen should try to TOT some key Russian technological advances. Later on all can work towards platform commonality between the alliance members.
Such an alliance will be a good hedge against any possible aggression from Russia, U.S., Europe, India even China and would bring a strategic stability and self sufficiency in the region.

 

[Tank131]

Regarding the ships, my suspicion is that there will be no RAM launcher. It will eitjer be replaced with FL3000N OR phalanx from the retiring Type 21s. I tjink that plus some other subsystems like towed sonar amd radios would be where you are seeing a cost savings. That being said, i would want to see if they get RAM, Could they get the block 2 varient. Also, @Penguin or @cabatli_53, would it be physically possiblr to replace STAMP with a gun based CIWS like phalanx or the AK630s fora added layer of protection?

 

[syed_yusuf]

even 24 cell FL-3000N will be a good choice instead of RIM or HQ-17 could also be examined. may be PN is interested in Umkhonot missile from south Africa

 

[cabatli_53]

Turkey is planning to integrate rail-guns on naval applications but We don't know When they are fully operational but What reporter told, is signalling impressive capabilities and improved firepower.

Tufan family rail-gun

300km range

 

[Penguin]

Regarding the ships, my suspicion is that there will be no RAM launcher. It will eitjer be replaced with FL3000N OR phalanx from the retiring Type 21s. I tjink that plus some other subsystems like towed sonar amd radios would be where you are seeing a cost savings. That being said, i would want to see if they get RAM, Could they get the block 2 varient. Also, @Penguin or @cabatli_53, would it be physically possiblr to replace STAMP with a gun based CIWS like phalanx or the AK630s fora added layer of protection?

Stamp

No deck penetration

• Type : remote-controlled stabilised machine gun
• Weight : 220 - 225 kg with ammunition
• Ready-to-fire rounds : 200 rounds (for 12.7 mm MG)

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3064.html

Vietnames AK630 - above deck portion

Below deck portion

Gunmount 1,800 kg (4,000 lb) (AK-630M)
2000 rounds in belt: 1,918 kg (4,228 lb)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-630

Phalanx CIWS

No deck penetration
Weight 12,500 lb (5,700 kg), later models 13,600 lb (6,200 kg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS

 

[cabatli_53]

Regarding the ships, my suspicion is that there will be no RAM launcher. It will eitjer be replaced with FL3000N OR phalanx from the retiring Type 21s. I tjink that plus some other subsystems like towed sonar amd radios would be where you are seeing a cost savings. That being said, i would want to see if they get RAM, Could they get the block 2 varient. Also, @Penguin or @cabatli_53, would it be physically possiblr to replace STAMP with a gun based CIWS like phalanx or the AK630s fora added layer of protection?

Stamp has a low silhuet/weight compared to CIWS like platforms but I suppose Milgem has enough space especially sides to integrate a CIWS like platform in same place.

 

[Penguin]

You could possibly go for the bigger 30mm Stop/Smash gunmount.

Or Bora (with Stinger)

Or with some other missile system (eg. here witth Hellfire)

or some other missile system mount (here an Aselsan mount with Thales LMM)

Or a combined gun/missilemount (Oto Melara Mod 584 MARLIN-WS, with Mistral)

Or a combined laser/manpads mount