Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[Penguin]

USD 300 million is the actual price of each Ada corvette. Have you wondered what they removed which reduced cost by USD 50 million ?

Perhaps some items are re-used from decommissioned Tariq class e.g. asw torpedo tubes, harpoon, possibly Phalanx in place of 21 cells RAM (maybe convert Phalanx to SeaRAM)?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

But Dunya news reported ada class and T-129 deal can you confirm which ship is PN going for and what it may have?

Milgem II, however they will be modified.
One Media house also reported that the ships will be built in Kamra.

 

[Frankenstein9321]

Reading comments here, i came to a conclusion that, best way for pakistan as a whole going forward is by making indigenous long range SAM like S400. Not only it will help pakistan defend better(defense shield), we can also use it for navy and other purposes. I see no reason for pakistan not to go for indigenous long and short range systems. They already make Manipads like Anza, they also have 10 plus missiles with different ranges like Shaheen and Ghauris, not to mention cruise missiles. It is also mentioned that pakistan make their own Radars, so for me its a no brainer to go for these long range SAMs indigenously. I think it should be easier to integrate, since we know how to make missiles. I think PA should invest into this and PN will benefit from this. PN can make ships no problem, FACs proves that. Also we will be making our own subs under license once we complete the 8 on order. Since china is bringing their machineries and systems in karachi and will leave them with KSEW. After that we should have no trouble making our own subs. I also researched that KSEW has started to make a dock for these subs. So for me in conclusion we need to invest in local long range SAM system...

 

[Basel]

Milgem II, however they will be modified.
One Media house also reported that the ships will be built in Kamra.

Which AShM is expected to be fitted on those?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Which AShM is expected to be fitted on those?

Nothing has been finalised yet.
Most probably Chinese.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The Muslim intelligentsia in Turkey firmly believes that it's their duty to help Pak in all ways possible no matter how trivial or infinitesimal it is!!!! I am pretty sure the feelings are mutual!! If they have a plan to send Ebraha from Yemen, Irak, Syria etc. those Sheyatin need to understand that they'll also find Ebabil fully ready and equipped!!!!! As for the results, read Sura El-Fil that every Muslim kid knows by heart!!!!!

 

[-------]

The 8 new subs don't just 'replace' the 2 Agosta-70s. This is a clear case of fleet expansion:

PNS Hashmat (135) and PNS Hurmat (136) date from 1978–80. They were modified in the mid 80’s to fire Harpoon SSM’s. They are now approaching 40 years (which is quit old) i.e. end of service life.

Much newer are the three Agosta 90B SSk’s. – PNS Khalid (137), Saad (138) (AIP) and Hamza (139) commissioned in 1999, 2003 and 2008 respectively. These boats are armed with the Exocet SM 39 SSM and are being modified to also fire the Harpoon SSM. The latter boat came fitted with AIP, In addition, the first two of the three boats are being retro-fitted with the 200Kw MESMA AIP, which will quadruple dived endurance at 4 Kt. The first pair are now about 20 years old and should at least last another 10 years, untill 2029, 2033 and 2038, respectively.

The Pakistan government has approved the purchase of eight Submarines at an estimated cost of $5 billion. The deal is confirmed and according to sources the construction process has begun. According to MoDP Pakistan four submarines will be constructed at KSEW under ToT while the remaining four will be built in China.The sub construction work will start simultaneous at both contries and will be provided from 2022 to 2028.

The oldest Agosta-90 will be 23-29 during that period and the youngest 14-20. So, paying of the Agosta-90 will - at the earliest - start only after all new Chinese subs have been delivered. At which time new submarines would be required in order to maintain the increased number of subs for the future.

Kh-35 / 3M24

What can I say, it's a popular class of missile and hard to tell from the outside what the exact (quantitative and qualitative) performance differences are.


FL3000N
Max Range: 6,000 meter (3.24 nautical mile)
Min Range: 500 meter (0.27 nautical mile)
http://www.deagel.com/Defensive-Weapons/FL-3000N_a002627002.aspx

If PL-9C has an A2A range of 22km, it's ground launch range could be around 15km
Max Range: 22,000 meter (11.9 nautical mile)
Min Range: 500 meter (0.27 nautical mile)
http://www.armyrecognition.com/chin...data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video.html
http://www.deagel.com/Defensive-Weapons/PL-9_a002626001.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL-9

plus:
heavier warhead
all round VLS coverage

Here's some information on ATMACA, Turkey will mix'n'match 8x Harpoons and 8x ATMACA on future 16 SSM capable frigates

 

[Penguin]

Here's some information on ATMACA, Turkey will mix'n'match 8x Harpoons and 8x ATMACA on future 16 SSM capable frigates

So, their main difference is range + length/weight (i.e. fuel)

 

[-------]

So, their main difference is range + length/weight (i.e. fuel)

ATMACA will also be network enabled weapon via its Link-16 data-link. I'd like to also mention that a air-launched anti-ship version of ATMACA will not be developed. SOM-J will be Turkey's future air-launched anti-ship missile, which is also network enabled.

 

[Penguin]

ATMACA will also be network enabled weapon via its Link-16 data-link. I'd like to also mention that a air-launched anti-ship version of ATMACA will not be developed. SOM-J will be Turkey's future air-launched anti-ship missile, which is also network enabled.

Well, an airlaunched version could simply be the surface launch version minus boosterstage. Not that much of a step, IMHO. Anyway, as I understand it, Som-J is a cruise missile, tailored to internal carriage by the F-35, that can also be used against sea target (rather than an antiship missile per se). It is a joint-venture with Lockheed Martin of the United States. That is kind of the reverse path, compared to Kongsberg NSM antiship missile turned into the multirole JSM (joint strike missile).

 

[araz]

Before we jump on the PN

Can we say Ada class is a excellent vessel and rather then think the worse, assume that PN has a plan

Remember everything from JF 17s to Ababeel to SLCMs have been built and improved according to longer term plans

I for one sm confident that either way even without VLS we will have a superb platform and will have a air defence plan which will eventually reveal itself

I fully concur. This is a very good opportunity and I strongly suspect PN will build on it to make the platform better as newer technologies/ armaments become available.
Regards
A`

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Milgem II, however they will be modified.
One Media house also reported that the ships will be built in Kamra.

Is this what you're referring to? @cabatli_53 noted it as the 'Milgem 2'...

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...n-of-agosta-fleet.433407/page-24#post-8618540

 

[cabatli_53]

Is this what you're referring to? @cabatli_53 noted it as the 'Milgem 2'...

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...n-of-agosta-fleet.433407/page-24#post-8618540

Milgem-2 term used to tell Istanbul class corvette/frigates. Where is that info coming from bro? Is it certain that Pakistani Milgem will be Milgem-2? If true, It will be an impressive news and great input to Pakistan navy. Istanbul class with onboard 16 SSM missiles along with 16 cell VLS + electronic attack + submarine active/passive defence syatems offers a huge fire power and protection capabilities...

 

[araz]

I hope that happens. Or else this is a poor deal. If you don't have money then there is no point buying just for the sake of it. Don't buy something that you don't really just for the sake of it.

Even RAM are not enough but still they would be better. Might improve the outlook of this deal for me.



I hope that happens. PN is continuously ignoring air defense and I hope it doesn't come back to bite them during wartime.

People are failing to see a total shift in the acquisition line of PN. You need to analyze the reasons for it prior to jumping on the platofrm and calling them names.
There have been significant issues with quality of the F22 platforms. A lot of remedial work had to be done to sort those out. The upgradability of the platform also is doubtful which really needs to be investigated further. The level of automation is also a factor as F22p at 3000tons employs 200 people where as the ADA class at 2400 tonnes needs 93 people. I am sure there may be other factors causing PN to change direction so radically.
People talk of SAMs as if the market is full of commodities. There could be a number of reasons why PN has not decided on a SAM. There are no suitable quad packed Chinese offerings. The turkish are similarly barren. The italians may be a source but is there a suitable missile available for PN? Is PN waiting for some project to come to fruition before incorporating it into the boats. There are a lot of things we dont know about this whole deal.
All four boats will be built in Karachi. What level of trianing/TOT/help in designing is available from Turkey in this regard. Where is the level of modernization of the Turkish platofrm as against the Chinese ones and what input will the PN gain and look for before developing its own larger ship? Does this allow us to do a hybrd platform which utilizes materials from China and software /hardware sourced from the West which can be soothed through because the Turks are a reliable source as compared to PN which has been labelled as unrelaible due to the Pak Chinese collaboration,ie guilt by association. All in all there is much more going on under the surface than meets the eye and the failure of a follow up order of modernised F22P is a good indicator of it.
Regards
A

 

[Army research]

Is this what you're referring to? @cabatli_53 noted it as the 'Milgem 2'...

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...n-of-agosta-fleet.433407/page-24#post-8618540

It says kamra....