Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[syed_yusuf]

Why can't PN go for south African vls missile on I class frigate

 

[jaatki]

Not on the ADA class.

Take another look at my flags.

Sorry sir flags not visible on mobile version...my mistake.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

A wonderful ship from brother Turkey , armed with latest tools to protect the Near shore assets and Pakistani Interest

Excellent choice between two Brother countries

Thankful that finally our Navy gets the attention they deserve

The planners should certainly need to be commended for their timely purchase. Just fantastic news , 10/10 one can only take a moment to rejoice in such a worthy Sea vessel being purchased

Of course no one in our Media will be commending this beautiful purchase but it up to us to really commend the folks who made this happen

 

[ziaulislam]

If it had been me personally, I would have ordered the LF-2400 (or VLS-equipped ship from China). However, the PN apparently decided it needed a corvette without area-wide AAW coverage. That said, STM hasn't actually shown us the PN MILGEM corvette design - I hope we all get a nice surprise.

it was probably the cost, i bet adding SAM would have cost at least another 400 million on top of current 1B. this would double the amount of funding PN needs given even this 1B is nearly half funded by low interest Turkish loans.

unless PN is looking for separate three-four frigates with air defense from china, the ultimate requirement is atleast 12 ships i guess no VLS doesnt make sense

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Considering the Pakistan Navy's doctrine is Close Shore protection and strategy the ships fit in the overall doctrine for Navy

Also the budget does have to be also considered

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

View attachment 396522

It should be Tariq Class (Type21)

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

it was probably the cost, i bet adding SAM would have cost at least another 400 million on top of current 1B. this would double the amount of funding PN needs given even this 1B is nearly half funded by low interest Turkish loans.
unless PN is looking for separate three-four frigates with air defense from china, the ultimate requirement is atleast 12 ships

Possibly. In any case, the MILGEM Ada's logistics should be relatively close to the LF-2400 should the PN decide to pursue AAW-capable corvettes or light frigates.

 

[Areesh]

now in my opinion they should have went for VLS system with south african system if at all the NATO system was not available(though i believe the issue was money not the availability )

wish ful thinking...one might hope that navy might be looking for heavy frigates for airdefence role from china as the next step

I hope that happens. Or else this is a poor deal. If you don't have money then there is no point buying just for the sake of it. Don't buy something that you don't really just for the sake of it.

Even RAM are not enough but still they would be better. Might improve the outlook of this deal for me.

Before we jump on the PN

Can we say Ada class is a excellent vessel and rather then think the worse, assume that PN has a plan

Remember everything from JF 17s to Ababeel to SLCMs have been built and improved according to longer term plans

I for one sm confident that either way even without VLS we will have a superb platform and will have a air defence plan which will eventually reveal itself

I hope that happens. PN is continuously ignoring air defense and I hope it doesn't come back to bite them during wartime.

 

[ziaulislam]

Possibly. In any case, the MILGEM Ada's logistics should be relatively close to the LF-2400 should the PN decide to pursue AAW-capable corvettes or light frigates.

one thought i had, is whether getting a larger vessel like the LF 2400/modified ADA and leaving space for future VLS upgrade would be a smart move or not..cost for now will not be much different and leaves the option of future VLS open be it even the turkish option once it matures down the line in 4-5 years

 

[ziaulislam]

I hope that happens. Or else this is a poor deal. If you don't have money then there is no point buying just for the sake of it. Don't buy something that you don't really just for the sake of it.
Even RAM are not enough but still they would be better. Might improve the outlook of this deal for me.
I hope that happens. PN is continuously ignoring air defense and I hope it doesn't come back to bite them during wartime.

i believe if they do get RAM B2 than VLS can be forgiven as it is still not a heavy frigate and is nor suppose to take long range long endurance mission requiring long range airdefence.

PN ignored long range surveillance in 1960s and got a big surprise in 1971

 

[Advocate Pakistan]

IMHO, this should be done with all four FAC-Ms, and these c/should receive Phalanx forward as these become available from retiring Type 21s. I would not seek these heavier missiles for Ada (space/weight constraints may apply and/or negative effects on RCS-reduction)



See here regarding the Chinese VLS system
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/type-055-ddg-news-discussions.307231/page-38#post-9201827

3.3m vls versus SD-10A (which is more than 4m?) > for what missile? DK-9C only?

Yes, that's indeed puzzling for me too.
Maybe the Chinese are working on a smaller missile. Similar to the MICA for use on small boats and corvettes.

 

[Basel]

Antiship there are plenty possibilities from the West besides Harpoon: Atmaca (Turkey), NSM (Norway), MM40 blk3 (France), MARTE ER (France), Otomat Mk2 Blk4 (Italy), RBS-15 mk3 (Sweden), with NSM and Marte being lighter missiles and Otomat and RBS-15 being heavier ones and MM40 and Atmaca in the same bracket as Harpoon. If you make friends again with the US, there is deck-launched LRASM to consider. From China, it would be C802A or C602.

The RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missiles, together with the Mk 49 Guided Missile Launching System (GMLS) and support equipment, make up the RAM Mk 31 Guided Missile Weapon System (GMWS). There is little direct equivalent to this. To mind spring primarily the French Sandral (a sixtuple-round, sensor equipped, remote controlled launcher for Mistral Manpads), Tetral (4 round remote control launcher) or Simbad-RC (two round remote control launcher), and the Turkish Atilgan and Bora naval mounts for Stinger and similar MANPADS e.g. Hisar-Manpad. Raytheon (US) used to offer the Sea Scorpion 2 (lightweight RC launcher with 4 Stinger missiles per mount), similar to Bora. Finland has a 6 round manned shiplauncher for Mistral. Wayback, there used to be 2-3 options for naval mounts for the British Startstreak Manpads (including proposed SeaStreak CIWS), now reincarnated into the direct attack laser guided Thales LMM (lightweight multirole missile), for which there are several launcher options, but I don't think this is employed for surface to air role. Possibly a naval launcher for RBS-70, but I don't think this is offered in any other form than found on land (i.e. single, manned pedestal launcher) although there once (late 1980s) was a 2x2 round launcher around the Signaal (now Thales NL) LIOD electrooptical director. But RBS-90 mount or ASRAD/LeFlaSys mount could offer starting points. Israel: Red Sky II (accepts a variety of manpads). From China: HQ10/FL3000N or that QW3 boosted Manpads remote control pedestal mount.

Otherwise, its the larger canister-launched VL systems (France: Mica, UK: SeaCeptor, Germany: Iris T, Sweden: Bamse, South Africa: Umkhonto, Turkey: Hisar-A/O, South Korea (K-SAM) but these need a VLS and a place to install it (which begs the question where to put it on standard Ada)

ASW torpedoes and tubes available from UK (Stingray), France (NTL-90 Murene), Italy ( Whithead A244, A290), or multinational (Eurotopr Mu-90), Sweden (Type 43X2), South Korea (K745 Chung Sang Eo Blue Shark), US (Mk 43-48, 50, 51, 54)

Helicopters: China (Z-9), France (SA 360 Dauphin, SA 365/AS365 Dauphin 2), Multinational (NH90), Italy (AB-212), UK/It (AW-139/1/49/189), UK (AW-159 Lynx), US (Sikorski SH-60/70, S-76)

And so on.

Choices abound. Constraints: a) cost v budget, b) applicable export controls, and c) political considerations.

I much like the

Although I would look to stick on a Thales I-mast, I-400 or at least I-100 given this weapons fit. I-500 with APAR if e.g. with Mk41/ESSM.

What in your opinion fits better in terms of western AShM for these ships other then Harpoons, do you think French will sale weapons to Pakistan as they are ver close to India these days? Also Turkish missile is not mature now, I think Italian and possibly Swedish weapon will be better to have, earlier have proved to be reliable supplier latter offer good product.

Will it be good for Pakistan to JV with SA to develop RIM-162/FL-3000N eqvivalant based on A-Darter (which have LOAL & LOBL modes with offbore capability ) or any similar / better missile?

 

[ziya]

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

@cabatli_53 @T-123456

I was reading an Anadolu Agency interview with STM CEO Davut Yilmaz and noticed that Yilmaz spoke about a 700-ton submarine. I saw the STM TS1700 concept, but did anyone catch a smaller SSK design at IDEF?

Türkiye'nin deniz harp sanayisine yönelik çalışmalarının önemli ayaklarından bir tanesi de denizaltı dizaynı yapmak ve geliştirmek.

Savunma Sanayii Müsteşarlığı öncülüğünde STM tarafından bu yönde çalışmalar yürütülüyor. Bu çabaların sonunda ilk konsept denizaltı dizayn çalışması yapıldı. Bin 700 tonluk bir denizaltı tasarlandı.

Denizaltıdaki yerleşime ilişkin ön dizayn çalışması yapıldı, ardından analiz ve hesaplamaları gerçekleştirildi.

Denizaltı ayrıca yeni teknoloji unsurlarının getirmiş olduğu havadan bağımsız tahrik ünitesinin birçok elemanını yerli imkanlarla üretmek üzere tasarlandı.

http://aa.com.tr/tr/turkiye/turkiye-denizlerde-gelecege-hazirlaniyor/816758​

 

[ziya]

milgem combat management system genesis havelsan

@cabatli_53 @T-123456

I was reading an Anadolu Agency interview with STM CEO Davut Yilmaz and noticed that Yilmaz spoke about a 700-ton submarine. I saw the STM TS1700 concept, but did anyone catch a smaller SSK design at IDEF?

Türkiye'nin deniz harp sanayisine yönelik çalışmalarının önemli ayaklarından bir tanesi de denizaltı dizaynı yapmak ve geliştirmek.

Savunma Sanayii Müsteşarlığı öncülüğünde STM tarafından bu yönde çalışmalar yürütülüyor. Bu çabaların sonunda ilk konsept denizaltı dizayn çalışması yapıldı. Bin 700 tonluk bir denizaltı tasarlandı.

Denizaltıdaki yerleşime ilişkin ön dizayn çalışması yapıldı, ardından analiz ve hesaplamaları gerçekleştirildi.

Denizaltı ayrıca yeni teknoloji unsurlarının getirmiş olduğu havadan bağımsız tahrik ünitesinin birçok elemanını yerli imkanlarla üretmek üzere tasarlandı.

http://aa.com.tr/tr/turkiye/turkiye-denizlerde-gelecege-hazirlaniyor/816758​