Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[Penguin]

Well, consider post #2:

*sigh* ... You do realize that when you comment on these things, the chances of them happening drop by 99.9%: Su-35, new assault rifles, etc... (joking).

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Can we confirm if the CAMM is quad-pack'able in the Sylver? The DCNS illustration seems to indicate that each Sylver cell can only take one CAMM. But the MBDA website says, "Sea Ceptor can operate from the SYLVER and Mk41 launchers using a quad-pack configuration to maximise packing density and for optimum installation on smaller ships." Let's say it can be quad-packed. The configuration you laid out looks good. If we could get 6 ships in the long-term, perhaps allocate 2 of them to serve as command ships, and in turn, arm them with 2x3 Babur dual LACM/LR-AShM.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

22 pages gone but its still likely to sign. Can anybody tell when will this likely to change into something concrete?

According to Bilal Quwa, deal ill be finalized in July 2017 (Yes/NO)

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

STM said they expect a decision to be made after July.

 

[Penguin]

Can we confirm if the CAMM is quad-pack'able in the Sylver? The DCNS illustration seems to indicate that each Sylver cell can only take one CAMM. But the MBDA website says, "Sea Ceptor can operate from the SYLVER and Mk41 launchers using a quad-pack configuration to maximise packing density and for optimum installation on smaller ships." Let's say it can be quad-packed. The configuration you laid out looks good. If we could get 6 ships in the long-term, perhaps allocate 2 of them to serve as command ships, and in turn, arm them with 2x3 Babur dual LACM/LR-AShM.

I think the reason CAMM can be quad pack in both Sylver and Mk41 is the LMCO Extensible Launching System, in which MBDA coorperates with Lockheed-Martin. THis is basically a launch canister that can be internally reconfigured.
In addition to use on Mk41 and Mk57, LMCO has developed the Single Cell Launcher (SCL), specifically to take the ExLS).

"MBDA and Lockheed Martin demonstrated the first launch of a Common Anti-air Modular Missile (CAMM) from Lockheed Martin’s MK 41 Vertical Launching System (VLS) launcher using the host variant of the Extensible Launching System (ExLS)."
http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...missile-launch-from-a-mk-41-vls-launcher.html

"The Extensible Launching System (ExLS) is a low-cost solution that integrates new missiles and munitions into the U.S. Navy’s inventory of Vertical Launching Systems (VLS) aboard surface combatants. ExLS was specifically designed to rapidly integrate qualified missiles or other weapons that were developed and certified in an All Up Round (AUR) configuration, such as the Nulka, the RAM Block 2 missile and the Precision Attack Missile. Maintaining the AUR integrity is critical from both a fleet commonality perspective and the need for eliminating costly VLS canister development. ExLS offers the unique ability to snap-in AURs into a reconfigurable system that will provide unprecedented flexibility for the U.S. Navy."
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/ms2/documents/launchers/ExLS Fact Sheet.pdf

Personally I don't see a great need for PN surface ships to have a significant land attack capability (sub, aircraft and mobile ground launch cruise missiles would provided enough options and firepower aka greater numbers), beyond the littoral that is, and so would focus on long-range antiship mission.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Can we confirm if the CAMM is quad-pack'able in the Sylver? The DCNS illustration seems to indicate that each Sylver cell can only take one CAMM. But the MBDA website says, "Sea Ceptor can operate from the SYLVER and Mk41 launchers using a quad-pack configuration to maximise packing density and for optimum installation on smaller ships." Let's say it can be quad-packed. The configuration you laid out looks good. If we could get 6 ships in the long-term, perhaps allocate 2 of them to serve as command ships, and in turn, arm them with 2x3 Babur dual LACM/LR-AShM.

well if it can be quad packed in a mk41 then it can be quad packed into the sylver.

 

[Tank131]

@Penguin you are right about Tiger class being much larger (4000t) infact it seems to be the 057 frigate (at least its shape and layout are incredibly similar.

As for CAMM. It will replace Sea Wolf in a 1:1 ratio on Type 23 from the original VLS tubes on those ships for 32 CAMM. However it is confirmed that in Mk41 and A50 the CAMM can be quad-packed. This is most prominently seen on Type 45 Daring class which were perceived to have too few SAMs with only 48. They will replace up to 12 asters (likely Aster 15s) for 48 CAMM, Leaving 36 Asters in place. My suspicion is all 36 will be Aster 30 (120+km range) while there will be 48 CAMM to mop up from 1 to 60km range. (going from 48 missiles to 84 missiles)

"MBDA has confirmed to DID that the naval Sea Ceptor will be packed into Type 23 Seawolf vertical launch tubes as a 1 for 1 replacement. Reports also indicate that the missile is designed to be quad-packed into DCNS SYLVER A50/A70 launchers on ships like Britain’s Type 45 destroyers, or in American Mk.41 tactical/strike length cells in common use by navies around the world.

That capability will be an especial help to the Type 45 Daring Class air defense destroyers, whose single-packed SYLVER A50 VLS cells left them with a low number of carried anti-aircraft missiles compared to their global peers. Giving up 12 Aster-15/30 missiles to get 36 Asters and 48 CAMM-Ms is a good trade. Fortunately, heavy FLAADS (M) re-use of elements from the Type 45’s PAAMS combat & launch system should make integration relatively simple"

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/i-think-i-camm-britains-versatile-air-defense-missile-07293/

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

@Penguin @cabatli_53 @Taygibay

Out of curiosity, since the STM C-1200 corvette is advertised for having a SAM and being capable of air defence roles, is it possible to integrate a VLS to this design? Where could it even be placed? I am thinking it would be between the AShM launchers and stack, but there's some kind of mechanism in place there. I think one could consider VLS-only and place AShM in there?

 

[Vengeful One]

@Penguin @cabatli_53 @Taygibay

Out of curiosity, since the STM C-1200 corvette is advertised for having a SAM and being capable of air defence roles, is it possible to integrate a VLS to this design? Where could it even be placed? I am thinking it would be between the AShM launchers and stack, but there's some kind of mechanism in place there. I think one could consider VLS-only and place AShM in there?

View attachment 386176 View attachment 386175

Very short duration, only 21 days.

 

[Tank131]

@Penguin @cabatli_53 @Taygibay

Out of curiosity, since the STM C-1200 corvette is advertised for having a SAM and being capable of air defence roles, is it possible to integrate a VLS to this design? Where could it even be placed? I am thinking it would be between the AShM launchers and stack, but there's some kind of mechanism in place there. I think one could consider VLS-only and place AShM in there?

View attachment 386176 View attachment 386175

Likely in this size corvette you would have a PDWS style SAM like RAM or FL-3000N. The 22km RAM Blk 2 would make this a potent little vessel. Something like this or the Type 056 is more in line with what PN should acquire if all they want is a peacetime patrol vessel for antipiracy and SLC keeping. MILGEM-ada is too large and expensive and has few additional benefits from a weapons perspective.

If they want most capable vessel, a variant of Tiger/Type 057. If they want cost effective multirole, then I-class or LF-2400 with hopefully a quad-packable SAM like CAMM or K-SAAM.

 

[Taygibay]

is it possible to integrate a VLS to this design?

As is, the answer is no, mate. This ship is just
too short & small to find enough space for a VLS.

We've done marvels in packing punch into vessels
these last few years not only because components
and weapons have shrunk but also thanks to auto-
-mation which allowed a major crew reduction.

All of this said, there remains a physical limit to be
respected and both for range and humans, this is
incompressible. You need a given volume of fuel to
get around at relatively ISO engine performances.
You just can't cut living space too much as it makes
your crew fatigue faster, sooner than mission's end.

In the end, size does matter and if the mission is
moving your 2 bedroom apartment, a Tata Nano is
too small, a pick-up should bring everything if not
at once and a big rig semi is just too big.
It's like that!

If a hull extension isn't possible, pick a bigger boat.

All the best to you and yours, Tay.

 

[Penguin]

Out of curiosity, since the STM C-1200 corvette is advertised for having a SAM and being capable of air defence roles, is it possible to integrate a VLS to this design? Where could it even be placed? I am thinking it would be between the AShM launchers and stack, but there's some kind of mechanism in place there. I think one could consider VLS-only and place AShM in there?

SAM launching system could be as simple as:

Igla-Missile Launching System is a fully automated very short range air defence weapon system using IGLA(S) missiles. The version presented at IDEF 2015 is fitted with what was reported as a 20kW laser weapon system.
As an effective, realiable, affordable Air Defence Solution from ASELSAN, Missile-Igla Launching System highly improves the capabilities of Man Portable Air Defence Systems by providing quick and correct aiming of the missile, improving reaction time, increasing fire power and hit probability.
The laser system has the mission of deterring and preventing the threat to fulfil its task in long range, and destroy the threat in closer ranges with functioning at the speed of light with low costs. Increasing the power level of laser system and consequently its range and affectivity is among the most important activities of ASELSAN’s roadmap.

This is a derivative of the Aselsan Stinger Weapon Platform (SWP), which we in Holland use on our Fennek recon vehicles, with Stingers

 

[Penguin]

http://globalmilitaryreview.blogspot.nl/2012/07/turkish-pedestal-mounted-air-defence.html

 

[cabatli_53]

@Penguin @cabatli_53 @Taygibay

Out of curiosity, since the STM C-1200 corvette is advertised for having a SAM and being capable of air defence roles, is it possible to integrate a VLS to this design? Where could it even be placed? I am thinking it would be between the AShM launchers and stack, but there's some kind of mechanism in place there. I think one could consider VLS-only and place AShM in there?

View attachment 386176 View attachment 386175

I don't suppose C-1200 have capacity to carry VLS system as other members stated but more compact SAM system is possible If required.

 

[Penguin]

Or it could be this Aselsan launcher for Thales LMM, which is a missile based on the British Starstreak manpads (which could probably also be mounted).

Starstreak

Yep, Bora would be another handy MANPAD (Stinger) launcher.