Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[Taygibay]

For the same ship, depending on what weapons/sensors fitted, the terminology indicates the combat environment it can independently survive in.

Add particulars of designation by nation and fully agreed!
Shoulda posted that pages back to shorten our discussion.

Tay.

P.S. As long as the name implies nothing here a frigate-able
corvette from northern France that some may like ...

http://www.maritime-executive.com/pressrelease/CMN-Offers-New-Ship-Designs-to-Navies-2014-11-12
https://cmn-group.com/products-and-services/military-vessels/corvette/c-sword-90/

 

[Penguin]

well yes they did make a model and no orders. do you expect orders when you display models?

anyway, i may have been wrong. it would be a heavily modified version.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C28A-class_corvette#New_Version

www.eastpendulum.com/cssc-devoile-nouvelle-version-de-fregate-c28a
@Vergennes @Taygibay your translation is needed

Just saying, one model does not a next class make.

Well actually the dia of Babur is reported at 0.53 and 0.54m and that makes it a perfect fit for those 533mm torpedo tubes. It is the C602 that is reported "thinner" with dia of about 0.36m. However as i stated, there sure is one page that mentions/claims the dia to be 0.54m (same as Babur that is)

That's what I said: Babur diameter will not be larger than the torpedo tube diameter. Since there is not a sublaunched versions of C602 (yet), it could be fatter (rather than thinner)

 

[cabatli_53]

There is very little difference between (heavy) corvette and (light) frigate, so lets not state blind on that terminology. For the same ship, depending on what weapons/sensors fitted, the terminology indicates the combat environment it can independently survive in.
@cabatli_53, what - if anything - can you tell about LF-2400 in relation to Ada, resp. Istanbul class ships? The latter are 'set' designs, the former imho is an export variant, which may have been tailored to better fit demands on the export market (e.g. see propulsion: all diesel)


Exactly the kind of image I was hoping for, thx.

LF-2400 is designed for export markets and It has many common design lines with Ada class + VLS behind the funnel. It is also possible that Pakistani variant of Milgem may be LF-2400 contrary to Istanbul class.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

LF-2400 is designed for export markets and It has many common design lines with Ada class + VLS behind the funnel. It is also possible that Pakistani variant of Milgem may be LF-2400 contrary to Istanbul class.

@cabatli_53 bro you're a hero on this forum. I remember the WAFF days when you broke news about Turkey and Pakistan formally agreeing to defence cooperation, which then fed to the F-16 MLU implementation at TAI, MRTP-33, and it has been history ever since. Today, you have resolved a nagging question for many of us ...

@Penguin @Tank131 @Taygibay It looks like the LF-2400 has VLS. Seems like a 16-cell system.

 

[Penguin]

@Penguin @Tank131 @Taygibay It looks like the LF-2400 has VLS. Seems like a 16-cell system.

Well, as I indicated, the increase in length of LF-2400 relative to Ada was behind the funnel. That's a good spot, as it gives a potential of at least 3, maybe 4 decks worth of depth for the VLS, which would allow for longer VLSs, e.g. Chinese ones. And it is relatively nicely centered (along the ship's axes)

http://far-maroc.forumpro.fr/t2160p250-industrie-militaire-turque

As compared to Istanbul class

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Well, as I indicated, the increase in length of LF-2400 relative to Ada was behind the funnel. That's a good spot, as it gives a potential of at least 3, maybe 4 decks worth of depth for the VLS, which would allow for longer VLSs, e.g. Chinese ones. And it is relatively nicely centered (along the ship's axes)

http://far-maroc.forumpro.fr/t2160p250-industrie-militaire-turque

As compared to Istanbul class

Yes it might mean room for the LY-80. I can't tell if it is 12-cell or 16-cell though.

 

[Tank131]

Its displacement is also only 50t more than Milgem and it has significantly better range (5000km vs 3500) so it makes more sense given the potential to have a 4 deck, 16 cell vls. This is why i keep harping on this fact over and over again. If there are cost effective better platforms from the same provider, why is Pakistan not pursuing them? We keep hearing MILGEM, but I truly hope they try for an optimized variant like the LF-2400. Short of this, go for type 056 if you want cost savings or F-16U/Tiger class frigate design (which appears to be based on C28A).

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Its displacement is also only 50t more than Milgem and it has significantly better range (5000km vs 3500) so it makes more sense given the potential to have a 4 deck, 16 cell vls. This is why i keep harping on this fact over and over again. If there are cost effective better platforms from the same provider, why is Pakistan not pursuing them? We keep hearing MILGEM, but I truly hope they try for an optimized variant like the LF-2400. Short of this, go for type 056 if you want cost savings or F-16U/Tiger class frigate design (which appears to be based on C28A).

For what it's worth the LF-2400 appears to be from the MILGEM family (see the rear half of the hull). So it can run either way, but IMO, no excuse for the PN to pick Ada over the LF-2400. Even if it can't afford the VLS and SAM, fine, just buy the hull and keep the space empty for a time when you can afford it!

 

[Penguin]

Yes it might mean room for the LY-80. I can't tell if it is 12-cell or 16-cell though.

16, same as on I-class

Short of this, go for type 056 if you want cost savings or F-16U/Tiger class frigate design (which appears to be based on C28A).

Tiger class is not in any way based on C28A (it is far smaller). F16U is from 2000, no longer offered.

 

[Arsalan]

That's what I said: Babur diameter will not be larger than the torpedo tube diameter. Since there is not a sublaunched versions of C602 (yet), it could be fatter (rather than thinner)

Sir Babur is 0.53m (that is in accordance with the torpedo tube dia) that is certain. It is the C602 diameter that is not confirmed as such. All we can do is compare it with other weapon systems (if we can find some pics of it along side other systems with known dimensions). That will make things a lot more clear.

This one is official

@cabatli_53

Any latest news in Turkish media regarding MILGEM talks with Pakistan ?

@Penguin so here it is. OUr dear friend got us what we were looking for.
It states the diameter of C602 as 540mm, that is almost same as Babur.

Thanks @TheOccupiedKashmir

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

In terms of air defence configurations, I imagine the following could be possible:

• Chinese PESA (or AESA?) radar + LY-80 MR-SAM
• Saab Giraffe AMB + Umkhonto EIR
• Thales SMART-S Mk2 + Umkhonto EIR or MBDA CAMM or MBDA Aster-15
• Turkish AESA radar + Hisar-O or Umkhonto EIR or MBDA CAMM or Aster-15

Just a thought, but I think the notion of a domestically-built AShM would make a lot of sense moving forward. It basically provides the PN (and PAF) flexibility in terms of source codes and radar integration.

Heavy-hitting systems such as the C-602 (Zarb?) and Babur will have a capacity trade-off (6 vs 8 missiles), but in-exchange for range and warhead payload. Seeing the 4th Azmat FAC, it looks like the PN is going to examine this route, and in the future, some warships might swap out the 2x4 for the 2x3. But if a mixed inventory of AShM are going to be maintained, I hope Pakistan opts to license manufacture the C-802 or the TL-7.

 

[Penguin]

MBDA did sell Spada/Aspide 2000 to Pakistan. MBDA makes CAMM, Mica and Aster 15/30.
China did sell LY-80.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

MBDA did sell Spada/Aspide 2000 to Pakistan. MBDA makes CAMM, Mica and Aster 15/30.
China did sell LY-80.

...and the PN did recently buy from Britain (i.e. SharpEye), so buying from Britain these days isn't a major issue at the moment. MBDA CAMM/Sea Ceptor should be plausible. Considering Algeria's C28A purchase, it should be possible to pair the C-802 to the Thales Smart-S Mk2?

 

[Penguin]

...and the PN did recently buy from Britain (i.e. SharpEye), so buying from Britain these days isn't a major issue at the moment. MBDA CAMM/Sea Ceptor should be plausible. Considering Algeria's C28A purchase, it should be possible to pair the C-802 to the Thales Smart-S Mk2?

Sylver A43, with a mix of e.g. 14x1=14 CAMM-ER (> 45 km against multiple targets) and 2x4=8 CAMM (>25km against multiple targets), would make for a nice asset. Backed by Chinese 24 round FL3000N, 76mm cannon, 2x single 30mm cannon and 2x3 C602 or 2x4 C802A.

I've assumed CAMM-ER is not quadpacked (but it may be possible). If you needed more SAMs, then the mix could be 12x CAMM-ER and 16x CAMM. Or you might do 12 CAMM-ER, 2x4 CAMM and 2x4 Nulka decoys (using Lockheed-Martin Extensible Launching System, see http://www.mbda-systems.com/?action=force-download-attachment&attachment_id=10897)

Those antiship missiles can in principle be paired with a combat management system that takes data from pretty much any sensor (i.e. a Chinese missile does not require a Chinese radar for initial targeting). Target data also comes from ESM - elint/sigint/rdf - and e.g. helicopter mounted radar or datalinked inform from an MPA or even sonar (screw noise). A compatible datalink is most important.

Incidentally, CAMM-ER will be offered to modernize Spada / Spada 2000 systems on land, replacing Aspide / Aspide 2000 missile. Might be interesting for Pakistan, as Spada / Aspide 2000 user.

Singapore Technologies Marine (ST Marine) introduced ST Marine Next Generation Frigate
2x8 cell VLS, 6x4 AShM

See also http://kementah.blogspot.nl/2013/05/republic-of-singapore-navy-formidable_19.html

This caught my eye because of its general similarity to I-class in terms of outfit (with the exception of the AShM count, of course ;-)

St. Marine NGF was presented a IMDEX 2013

It appears based on / related to new ST. Marine 95m OPV

Source http://www.defence24.com/151398,euronaval-2014-dluga-lista-kandydatow-na-okret-patrolowy-czapla (EuroNaval 2014)
See here for OPV pics http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Justin177adb/media/DSC_0058.jpg.html

http://maxdefense.blogspot.nl/2013/12/updates-on-philippine-navys-frigate.html

http://www.w54.biz/showthread.php?2317-Pics-from-IMDEX-2013&p=37151&viewfull=1

http://s496.photobucket.com/user/happywho/media/IMDEX 2013/20130515_124116.jpg.html

Another very similar ship in this weight class: German’s TKMS MEKO D 100 patrol frigate

At IMDEX 2009, eyeing Malaysian demand, Germany TKMS launched the MEKO D-100 program which is a 98.20 meters long and 17 meters wide ship with displacement of 2490 tons and maximum speed of 26 knot. It is equipped with a 16 cell vertical launch system, its anti-ship missile device is designed to be kept hidden under the deck, which will effectively reduce the radar from tracing it.
http://www.klsreview.com/HTML/2009Jan_Jun/20090608_01.html

 

[IceCold]

22 pages gone but its still likely to sign. Can anybody tell when will this likely to change into something concrete?