Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[Penguin]

The Avante is not stealth, old design; the MOSAIC
still but a design and so is the Hyundai if active.

Tay, IMHO Mosaic is simply a beefed up version of the NUMC/Commandante Fulgosi class corvettes

"MOSAIC (Modular Open System Architecture Integrated Concept) is a family of modular ships, representing an excellent solution to the need of an effective and modern combat component, both littoral and off-shore.

These vessels derive from the Comandanti Class Corvettes, but their most distinguishing element is the design, centred on the volumetric modularity and open architecture concepts. In fact, the ships compartments are prearranged to accommodate different kinds of systems, e.g. engines, with no need for a redesign, limiting acquisition and operating costs."
http://navaltoday.com/2012/02/09/italy-orizzonte-sistemi-navali-presents-mosaic/

That's much like Damen Sigma.

See also Abu Dhabi class.

 

[Taygibay]

I know there's a base but at the same time, how
many were floated since the 2012 date of your link?

I'm not saying bad project, just like the Sea Gripen,
but project nonetheless. Just for fun, check how many
navies have tried or will try the Adroit working prototype ...

In this age of 3 for 31 Uber-destroyers for zillions,
it makes sense to wait for a test run?

But again, I'm not gung-ho on my French product or
anything. Just saying that solutions exist to fit the bill
for a single class for PN. Egypt having a Gowind assembly
line is also a plus from the Umma standpoint.

Money and time play the biggest role anyhow as usual.

Good day to you, GTG, Tay.

P.S. I didn't like DeltaMarine's PDF as they labeled
kilometers kn. Very unprofessional ... like a Mars probe.

P.P.S. Why did no one care that the plane downed
by the Gowind in the last vid of Chachag's post #232
was a Thunder?

 

[ghazi768]

As is, a PN variant of Milgem (or FL-2400) could well be fitted with Chinese weapon systems like C802, FL300N, PJ26 76 mm gun, a pair of 25 or 30mm cannon (which may be preferred over US weapons like Harpoon and RAM, not necessarily because of better capability/quality but in view of reliability of logistics/continued deliveries). European sensors and electronics do not appear a problem (see earlier PN acquisition / modernization and how both Turkey and China sourced ships have been outfitted)

Thanks for the pdf by the way, it is very informative.

May be.. but what if re-use of existing inventories is also a motivation..
Harpoon, Phalanx, Mark 42/46 torpedoes..

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Presently the two platforms we have
a) Azmat Class Stealth Ships
b) Potential Milgem Class Stealth Corvettes

Are certainly the best options on table

But certainly it does not rules out future arrivals


This will do for now

Its about filling Gaps in National defence now

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

IMHO, there does not appear to be significantly more space between main gun and forward superstructure edge, or between rear of bridge structure and stack, which is where other variants (Istanbul class) show 'stretch' (for Mk41 and extra 2x4 Harpoon). I'm not saying it is not possible, just that the image doesn't convincingly show it. The description does list a SAM system, but that could well be RAM (I don't see another system depicted in the image).

As is, a PN variant of Milgem (or FL-2400) could well be fitted with Chinese weapon systems like C802, FL300N, PJ26 76 mm gun, a pair of 25 or 30mm cannon (which may be preferred over US weapons like Harpoon and RAM, not necessarily because of better capability/quality but in view of reliability of logistics/continued deliveries). European sensors and electronics do not appear a problem (see earlier PN acquisition / modernization and how both Turkey and China sourced ships have been outfitted)

Thanks for the pdf by the way, it is very informative.

The way I see it is that there is about 20-25 metres between the bridge and the tip of the bow. The main gun could be moved up 2 metres, providing about 6 metres between the bridge and gun. That should be enough for two eight-cell Sylver VLS if arranged at 4.6 m by 2.6 m, like the Gowind 2500.

 

[Taygibay]

Quwa, excellent mate, moving the gun as you know is
not simple, it often being a design fixture.

Plus, on a smaller hull with less depth, it is likely that you
couldn't fit the Sylver array along the deck width as shown
in your image. That could be fixed with the raised section
as that of the Gowind 1000 but you'd still need an extra
bit of hull length. It may fit lengthwise but the gun would be perched
by the bow almost as that couple in Titanic the movie.

Eternal conundrum of the design vs real use, the line between
adaptation and different need is blurry.

Great day to you, Tay

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Where is "today" from the topic title ? @Zarvan

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Quwa, excellent mate, moving the gun as you know is
not simple, it often being a design fixture.

Plus, on a smaller hull with less depth, it is likely that you
couldn't fit the Sylver array along the deck width as shown
in your image. That could be fixed with the raised section
as that of the Gowind 1000 but you'd still need an extra
bit of hull length. It may fit lengthwise but the gun would be perched
by the bow almost as that couple in Titanic the movie.

Eternal conundrum of the design vs real use, the line between
adaptation and different need is blurry.

Great day to you, Tay

Thanks!

The length of the LF-2400 (108 m) is 5 metres less than that of the MILGEM-G (113 m). The MILGEM-G does have VLS (16-cell via Mk41). But the ship beam of the LF-2400 and of the MILGEM-G are identical at 14.5 m.

Note: The MILGEM-G or I-Class frigate is a VLS-capable variant of the MILGEM, but for the Turkish Navy. The obvious route for Pakistan would be to go for the I-Class instead of the MILGEM Ada corvette, but let's assume that isn't the case. It basically seems like a VLS-capable MILGEM Ada would amount to the I-Class.

 

[Penguin]

What Do you all think about Gowind 2500 corvette.

Already amply discussed. See earlier on.

May be.. but what if re-use of existing inventories is also a motivation..
Harpoon, Phalanx, Mark 42/46 torpedoes..

You would end up with a ship with no SAM, just guns and HARPOON. Bolting on LY-60 is not an improvement.

I know there's a base but at the same time, how
many were floated since the 2012 date of your link?

I'm not saying bad project, just like the Sea Gripen,
but project nonetheless. Just for fun, check how many
navies have tried or will try the Adroit working prototype ...

In this age of 3 for 31 Uber-destroyers for zillions,
it makes sense to wait for a test run?

But again, I'm not gung-ho on my French product or
anything. Just saying that solutions exist to fit the bill
for a single class for PN. Egypt having a Gowind assembly
line is also a plus from the Umma standpoint.

Money and time play the biggest role anyhow as usual.

Good day to you, GTG, Tay.

P.S. I didn't like DeltaMarine's PDF as they labeled
kilometers kn. Very unprofessional ... like a Mars probe.

P.P.S. Why did no one care that the plane downed
by the Gowind in the last vid of Chachag's post #232
was a Thunder?

We've built only 4 Holland OPVs. Does that mean that design for OPC is just a project? DCNS is also in on the OPC project. They have been pushing their Gowind family of vessels as both OPCs, corvettes and light frigates.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I was curious what is the meaning of terminology "Gowind" from French prespective it does not sounds very french name. What is the meaning of this particular name in french history ?

Vertical Missile Launcher Mk 56 GMVLS
# of missiles =4 =12 =32 launch controller (1 per 16 missiles)
Width (cm) 173 366 477 94
Depth (cm) 132 271 417 34
Height (cm) 465 465 465 190
Weight (kg) w/missiles 3,464 10,200 23,859 -
weight (kg) w/below deck launch controller 3,714 10,450 24,359 250

Mk56 VLS (mk48 follow-on)
http://wikivisually.com/wiki/RIM-162_ESSM

I figure, this would be about 1.6m x 2.3m

Wow awesome share , nice images , did not realize these things are so space consuming from vertical placement prespective, amazing piece of tech

 

[Penguin]

The way I see it is that there is about 20-25 metres between the bridge and the tip of the bow. The main gun could be moved up 2 metres, providing about 6 metres between the bridge and gun. That should be enough for two eight-cell Sylver VLS if arranged at 4.6 m by 2.6 m, like the Gowind 2500.

I told you what I think. Is there a need to convince me otherwise?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I told you what I think. Is there a need to convince me otherwise?

You're no fun.

 

[Penguin]

You're no fun.

Milgem/Ada

LF2400

Extra length appears to be behind the stack., mainly.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Milgem/Ada

LF2400

Extra length appears to be behind the stack., mainly.

hmm... The Navantia Avante 1800 is beginning to look really good now ...

 

[Taygibay]

The length of the LF-2400 (108 m) is 5 metres less than that of the MILGEM-G (113 m). The MILGEM-G does have VLS (16-cell via Mk41). But the ship beam of the LF-2400 and of the MILGEM-G are identical at 14.5 m.

Yes but no ... not necessarily, mate!

Where do you measure ship beam? Usually, beam left unspecified
is measured at waterline and widest dimension but that can be at
transom ( Hull flat top level ) too on the vertical and that spot is
anywhere along ship's length. In some ships as Columbus and co
Caravels, the widest point is at waterline but behind mid-length.
On a sail race boat, that is located almost or at the stern. Boat
builders often use the master beam but that can be way forward
right past sheer's end.

But even supposing we use the universal centerline definition,
what are the deadrise and chine? A warship has a hard chine and
that will show until sheer is cleared. That front part can run from
bow to superstructure as shown above by Penguin. In this case,
the incline of the sides forbids a big VLS because the width of
your launcher fits at transom but is wider than your hull at the
lowest point. Your flat bottom box will protrude out hull walls?

As Penguin offered, that can be remedied by extending ship in its
standard / average width portion. One more section and you're good
to go or just about ... That is also why I suggested that the VLS could
be placed lengthwise to minimize the problem which using numbers
from Penguin's visual aid post drops 134 to 100 & 2.59 to 2.27 to
clear that pesky pointy bottom narrowness. But that may put your
gun a bit near bow and hurt its stability as a platform.

The overall idea is that each ship design carries possibilities and
difficulties that can't be ignored when modifying its equipment.
But the idea of VLS to begin with is that they can be placed just
about anywhere without affecting their functioning so that by bow,
behind bridge, behind stack or by the rear deck, it doesn't matter
as long as it fits ship design.
Between mast and stack maybe on your Milgem/LF choices but
the electro-magnetic interferences forbid that choice and missile
plumes would roast your expensive sensors anyhow. Transverse
launchers fit there better. Behind those, possibly.


@

No! Your OPVs are real and they look amazing too but they should be
termed Frigates for all the equipment they carry and punch they pack.
But if, like the Italians, you make a PowerPoint about extending the line
to include carrier and fast attack craft versions, those will be projects!

Now grab that image above and go buy yourself a Monopoly set

And great day both, Tay.

P.S. I'm so sorry, AzadP mate, I forgot you entirely ...
French peeps tend to think it it sounds smart to use
English even incorrectly, even for no reason and odd.

I guess we could understand DCNS to choose English
for commercial reasons and it might be better than the
other folly in French mil. : acronyms like B2M ( yes, a ship ).

All the best to you and yours, sorry again, Tay bis.