What's new

Pakistan hopes MBS will make brief stopover

Without using a Russian route to Europe. How does it keep Russia out of the Chinese orbit. It seems like it puts Russia squarely with just the Chinese option.

Sure Russia is selling more crude to India, but is it enough to sway Russia.

All of this is too early to tell, until the Chinese make a counter offer and see how it lands. SA may want to mend fends with Biden, and it maybe part of a larger effort to mend fences with the west, but frankly the balls in SA and the GCC court, Iran is isolated and the Arab have their pick of suppliers. They can dictate terms. This railway is then investing into their own region.
Its not a one sided endeavors. Russia too would not like be a junior partner in Russo-China relationship. But to have some leverage against China, it too need some partners apart from China. Moreover Russia also knows that the China expansion would one day reach their home to(read Manchuria and recent Chinese map. Thus Russia, too would like to have some friends to keep China at bay and India can provide that catalyst as well as acting as a mediator between them and the West!!
 
. .

Why Saudi Arabia has left Pakistan out in the cold​


Unless Islamabad undertakes structural economic reforms and addresses ongoing political instability, Riyadh is unlikely to play saviour this time around

The removal of Imran Khan as Pakistan's prime minister in April 2022 ushered in a political crisis, and a year since his departure, it shows no signs of abating.

The political upheaval in Islamabad has transformed into a major cataclysm, with impacts on the country’s political, economic and social life. And as Pakistan teeters on the edge of financial default, its traditional partners are not coming to the rescue.

Khan was ultimately removed from power through a no-confidence vote in parliament after a dispute with Pakistan’s army chief over the removal of his favoured intelligence chief. Having also refused to allow the US to use Afghan bases for operations in the country, Khan had become a liability for Pakistan’s military establishment.

After his removal, mass demonstrations erupted across Pakistan, alongside rare protests in Arab Gulf states, indicating that Khan’s voting base remained solidly behind him.

Meanwhile, the coalition government that replaced him, under the leadership of Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif and with the military’s backing, fell deeper into the throes of a financial crisis - and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has delayed a multibillion-dollar bailout.

It was expected that the Sharif government, considered more acceptable to global and regional stakeholders, would be able to secure substantial financial grants from states such as Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Qatar.

These assumptions were not baseless, as the Sharif family has close ties with the Saudi royals. Former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif spent his political exile in the kingdom after Pakistan’s 1999 military coup. Unlike Khan, whose attempts to project himself as a leader of the Muslim world put him in Riyadh’s crosshairs, Shehbaz Sharif was expected to be politically servile to the kingdom.

Mounting costs​

Many believed this political docility and Sharif’s personal links to Gulf royals would eventually be enough for Pakistan to secure crucial financial aid - but so far, this has not been the case. So why are Arab Gulf states, and in particular Saudi Arabia, reluctant to step in?

Over the past decade, Saudi Arabia has provided Pakistan with several financial bailouts, including a $1.5bn loan in 2014, a $3bn deposit in 2018, and another $3bn in 2021, among other aid. A year ago, Sharif’s new government approached Saudi Arabia for a new support package, and last August, Riyadh opted to renew $3bn in deposits as Pakistan continued IMF negotiations.

But after Pakistan failed to reach a final agreement with the IMF, no fresh bailout package was initiated by the Saudis. Last November, General Asim Munir assumed command of the Pakistani military, and he swiftly visited Saudi Arabia; following his trip, reports emerged that the Gulf state was considering increasing its deposits in Pakistan’s central bank to $5bn and making other investments in the country. But beyond a recent $1bn oil-sector deal, little has materialised.

The reasons for Saudi Arabia’s wariness cut across political, economic and geostrategic domains. While Riyadh has long been a source of financial support for Pakistan, the latter’s economic crisis has only worsened, and subsequent governments have appeared reluctant to fully implement IMF reforms, owing to their inherent political costs.

This has raised questions within Saudi decision-making quarters over the wisdom of repeatedly salvaging Pakistan’s economy. At the same time, Saudi Arabia’s no-strings approach to foreign aid is changing in general, and the kingdom has been in talks with international financial institutions on new ways to support cash-strapped states such as Pakistan.

It is becoming evident that fiscal belt-tightening and improved governance practices are no longer just the IMF’s demands, but also Saudi Arabia’s aid conditions vis-a-vis Pakistan.

Political instability​

There is also a political dimension to the Saudi disinclination towards providing financial assistance to Pakistan. Since his removal from power, Khan has continued to gain ground against the current government, with a recent poll putting his popularity at 61 percent, compared with just 32 percent for the incumbent prime minister.

As the federal government tries to avoid holding elections in key provinces, and as the targeting of politicians and political workers. by authorities continues, political instability is a given. The emphasis by a former Saudi ambassador to Pakistan on the link between political and economic stability further suggests that renewed financial engagement hinges on a rapprochement between various political players and state institutions.

The Saudi-Pakistani relationship also has a geostrategic angle. The two countries maintain close defence ties, and their armed forces routinely hold joint exercises. Pakistan has also deployed soldiers to Saudi Arabia in training and advisory roles. In this way, Pakistan continues to contribute in an indirect manner towards Saudi national security.

Still, Pakistan’s defence engagement with Saudi Arabia has increasingly become low-key and more of tactical significance - a far cry from its military presence within the kingdom during the Iran-Iraq War.

Thus, even as Saudi Arabia recently deposited $1bn and $5bn respectively in the central banks of Yemen and Turkey out of geostrategic sensitivities - and in disregard of its newly adopted foreign aid approach - there remains little appetite within Saudi decision-making quarters to dole out similar aid to Pakistan.

In addition, the newly minted rapprochement between Riyadh and Tehran will reduce Saudi Arabia’s need for such security dependency.

Unless Pakistan undertakes structural economic reforms, implements IMF-approved financial policies and fixes the country’s ongoing political instability, the possibility of renewed Saudi financial support remains relatively low.

The views expressed in this article belong to the author and do not necessarily reflect the editorial policy of Middle East Eye.
It had to be IMF 😞
 
.
The bigger picture here is that CPEC will be neutralized down the road.

@Meengla you might remember me mentioning this before; I'm happy to be validated. Pakistan's utility in the region is no longer required and replaced by a healthy horse rather than a dead one that needs to be carried around; almost all our close allies have had it hearing the same begging speech.

Now you have those retards touting SIFC as if it's some miracle that will save Pakistan. Let me say and mark my words this: to will fail, but it will serve its purpose of funneling funds.

I am not sure about that - is there any reason why Saudia Arabia would refuse China to also use this trade corridor if it is as good as it is ? India is not funding this corridor - so she does not have exclusive rights or veto over it. Saudia Arabia will not let India have any veto over this project - they are looking to actually use their geography for actual economic benefit and they have equally better relations with China.

Saudia Arabia is making plans for a post-oil world. They can see the future and now are making the decisions to secure their future so that they can continue to earn a living ( and this is why they are SSOOO tired of the begging bowl from Pakistan, as they dont see Pakistan make those same decisions it is having to make). Part of that Saudia Arabia's future is having good economic relations with India.

As a side note - the "Abraham Accords" make more sense now with this trade corridor and if you consider the timeline of those accords, you can see how long all stakeholders have been planning this initiative.

This corridor may be good for India, but i also think it will be good for China to, if the economics of the corridor make economic sense - that is.
 
Last edited:
.
Any item in TRANSIT is a cost you fail to understand. A 40% reduction in transit means less cost. TRANSIT IS COST.
I don’t disagree with the premise, but I have always been told shipping by sea is a cheaper. I guess if you take into account the charges at Suez, and the time it takes, if it is indeed a 40% reduction in cost, it speaks highly of rail transport.

I am one of the biggest advocates of rail transport of freight.

So to be clear, the cost reduction comes from bypassing suez, and … what else? Cutting down on travel time?
 
.
Everybody is just talking about trade and goods, but this also opens a route for food transport.

Perishables will benefit, if the transit route is shorter.

If am not wrong there was a study done, to make under sea train route like the connection between UK and France. If something like that can happen between Gulf states and India, it will be a game changer. The cost initially will be enormous, but then benefits will be long-term.

The Chabahar route, is more about connecting Russia and Iran to Indian region as much as it is for giving India a route towards Russia and Europe.

Both this route and Chabahar are not going to cut out each other.

We have been talking about the potential of shipping perishables (especially food stuffs) to the GCC from Pakistan for years on PDF.

This new infrastructure will benefit india, but can benefit Pakistan if it gets it crop yields up and rail infrastructure built.

In fact, if the rail network in Pakistan is extended to Gwadar, and the food storage faculties are built in Muscat, Oman, the distance is only 223 nautical miles, that can be covered in 10 hours (give or take).

To far to cross in a tunnel but would make Gwadar relevant and economical viable.

Btw, if China wanted to build an undersea tunnel it would probably be between China and South Korea. Not a small feat at 250 miles. It would probably cost $150-200 Billion (as probably the Gwadar-Muscat tunnel would cost) . The trade would immediately help pay back the cost of the tunnel, and make use of all the BRI/OBOR infrastructure being built. This would also make it even more attractive for South Korea and Japan to built their own undersea rail tunnel they have been considering, in one way or another, for over 80 years.

We can't be sure as of today which is cheaper mode? Suez or this Land-Sea route. Because the Suez is already crowded, this route which is far more faster could give time advantage over transportation cost, finally resulting in better ROI than Suez. So, we need to wait to see if this project is financially visible for the Indian or other nations.
Hey, you don’t have to sell me on the concept, I’m the biggest advocate for rail based freight. Go back over my posts on this forum for nearly 3-5 years I have been saying this is the way to go.

In fact for Africa, a trans-Sahel route would cut costs in the fastest growing region in Africa, countries all looking to break free of French neo-colonization. If the Chinese take the risk, it can pay off big and link up via an undersea tunnel between Djibouti and Yemen and the to this GCC railway. Then via the GCC railway to Oman and then Gwadar and via Gwadar all the way up to China, by passing the entire Indian Ocean basin, except for the Oman-Gwadar sea leg.
 
Last edited:
. .
Its not a one sided endeavors. Russia too would not like be a junior partner in Russo-China relationship. But to have some leverage against China, it too need some partners apart from China. Moreover Russia also knows that the China expansion would one day reach their home to(read Manchuria and recent Chinese map. Thus Russia, too would like to have some friends to keep China at bay and India can provide that catalyst as well as acting as a mediator between them and the West!!
Even if Russia diversifies, it will remain the junior partner in the Sino-Russian relationship.

I know India’s foreign policy is always been to keep Russia as Independent of China as much as possible, going back to the days of Nehru. And info might throw Russia a “bone”; shipping some trade via Russia (Iran), but it will probably be limited to geographic areas economically requiring it, such as Central Asia.

Put aside politics, if the trans-Afghan railway is build and IF Pakistan and Afghanistan allow it, wouldn’t Indian shippers, especially if perishables want to ship via that route to Central Asia.

The economics don’t make as much sense dealing with Russia, poltics require them to get a carve out if you want to help them have some options to diversify away from China. India is a large economy, and demand is substantial, but how much of russia’s decrease in oil/gas can india absorb? How much can China absorb? How long will the US allow India to import Russian oil/gas and re-export it as their own?

Italy pulling out of OROB and Indian conglomerate eyeing the Greece port suggest things are moving in the positive direction!!
Is China selling its access to the port in Greece?

Btw, even if China is shut out of the Greek port. In the future, they are already build a trans-Balkan railway. The only part they need is a link to Iran and Turkey through central Asia or Pakistan to ship directly to Europe, outside of a pathway via Russia. And central Asia is still in Russia’s orbit. The trans-afghan railway (and upgrading Pakistan railways as well as extending to gwadar) is the real game changer being built. Even India’s dedicated freight corridors would feed into this arrangement, if keeping costs lower is the primary consideration.

 
Last edited:
.
Through undersea tunnels???
They will give such proposal which pakistan can't refuse .

I thought India had its bet on Chahbahar. Now its a sea corridor to Oman and then off to Saudi Arabia. Hope you get my gist.

MBS is a good guy. He is using the petro dollars and using it to play the global game. Who so ever plays his game shall be showered with petro dollars.

The Saudis have been warming up to China. Remember China brokered peace between Saudi Arabia and Iran. If you think in terms of binary, that the Saudis have chosen India over Pakistan, then think again.

The Saudis are extremely smart when it comes to foreign policy.
Saudis will guide pakistan to become an obedient child if child wants toffee .
 
Last edited:
.
he gonna stop over and lift his white skirt and say to munir clean it with whiskey then lick it off, i have not washed in the desert for 3 months. maybe kashogi's body part might fall out of the skirt aswell. munir go lick that oil off.
 
.
So to be clear, the cost reduction comes from bypassing suez, and … what else? Cutting down on travel time?
Please look at the map. From Mumbai/Surat/Kandla, the nautical distance through the Persian Gulf and then through Haifa is shorter than sailing into the Red Sea and then to Suez. There has been heavy investment in linking India's heartland to the Western ports through road and rail links.
 
.
I am not sure about that - is there any reason why Saudia Arabia would refuse China to also use this trade corridor if it is as good as it is ?
No, the corridor would be open to everyone, I would think, including China and Pakistan. However, the US is going to be a partner, probably through some equity, and what signal would it send for the viability of BRI if China uses the American- sponsored corridor. The US would certainly use that for propaganda in dissuading countries from BRI.
Is China selling its access to the port in Greece?
There are many ports in Greece.
 
.
wait for it.... Chahcoo whisky is giving hope here...

Screenshot 2023-09-10 at 9.58.07 pm.png
 
.
Put aside politics, if the trans-Afghan railway is build and IF Pakistan and Afghanistan allow it, wouldn’t Indian shippers, especially if perishables want to ship via that route to Central Asia
Theoretically yes, but I think strategically India is de-prioritising Central Asia and Russia and focussing on GCC, Indo- Pacific, Europe and America as trade partners. Putin has destroyed his reputation as someone reliable and practical and there are too many minefields for India in the transit route. While there is still legacy goodwill towards Russia, the potential returns from making financial and political investments in developing a partnership in that part of the world are just not commensurate with the risks.

Unless there is a change in regime in Russia, it will slip further into the Chinese orbit irrespective of what India does.
 
.
Theoretically yes, but I think strategically India is de-prioritising Central Asia and Russia and focussing on GCC, Indo- Pacific, Europe and America as trade partners. Putin has destroyed his reputation as someone reliable and practical and there are too many minefields for India in the transit route. While there is still legacy goodwill towards Russia, the potential returns from making financial and political investments in developing a partnership in that part of the world are just not commensurate with the risks.

Unless there is a change in regime in Russia, it will slip further into the Chinese orbit irrespective of what India does.
So, at least for the time being, Russia is lost to China.
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom