Pakistan Has Settled All Scores With India

[Chhatrapati]

India signs a water treaty.

What happened to Indus Water Treat?

 

[Nyayadhikari]

we are Muslims- they don't consider us the same people or if they do they want us to behave a certain way= cant accept us as is
f em- no need to create pan- whatever

it brings softness imo

You talk as if Muslims are standing with their arms stretched with love for Hindus. I mean just look at this forum and you will know. Don't take the moral high ground here. If anything, muslims hate hindus , christians and sikhs with similar intensity if not higher than vice versa.

 

[Maula Jatt]

You talk as if Muslims are standing with their arms stretched with love for Hindus. I mean just look at this forum and you will know. Don't take the moral high ground here. If anything, muslims hate hindus , christians and sikhs with similar intensity if not higher than vice versa.

cool, lets hate each other than
such is the fate, such is life in SC

 

[Nyayadhikari]

You guys have never admitted defeat in losing a territory larger than the European country of Austria to Pakistan in 1947-48 still held by Pakistan to this day but you have changed the narrative as if India has gained anything in Kashmir while the truth is the other way all these territories were Indian as per agreement pre-partition but Pakistan made the gain post partition.

Was the state of Jammu and Kashmir under Indian rule when you occupied a part of it ?

 

[SIPRA]

The OP is ill founded. Pakistan has yet to settle many scores with India. Keeping in view the mindset of Hindutvadi India, peace between India and Pakistan is a mirage.

 

[DrasticMeasure]

Great what about other achievements ??? What about pakistani economy ??? Has pakistan been to space?? Does pakistan have the success that Indians are achieveing worldwide??

The only thing India and Pakistan have achieved parity on is making our people suffer pain due to losses.

 

[Nyayadhikari]

cool, lets hate each other than
such is the fate, such is life in SC

I dont hate anyone. I just wish for Scientific Temper and friendly relations in South Asia. Religion was a great unifier in ancient and medieval times. Religion has kept South Aisa fd up. Not against private religion though but against the usual dck measurement contests.

 

[SIPRA]

No resolution of Kashmir issue, per wishes of Kashmiri people; No peace. Period.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

I dont hate anyone. I just wish for Scientific Temper and friendly relations in South Asia. Religion was a great unifier in ancient and medieval times. Religion has kept South Aisa fd up. Not against private religion though but against the usual dck measurement contests.

Religion of God gives inalienable God given rights to mankind. This is a practical necessity which obviously isn't dck measurement contest, however, disbelievers exploit religion for political and power purpose. Without faith in God they come up with no moral, philosophical or ethical purpose of religion other than abuse. Corrupted religion becomes idolatry.

 

[Green Machine]

It is n

Here is an Indian view, since you made the effort to ask for it.

a) India lost the war with China because Indian leadership (at that time) was naive and unprepared for a military confrontation with China. Given that India does not have the same attitude with respect to China, would the result be any different if India were to fight China today? Personally, I think it would be a miracle if India manages to hold its ground against China in an all out war. China is many times more powerful than India now than it was in 1962.

b) India lost the salvo with Pakistan in February 2019. No excuses for this. IAF was simply caught napping and complacent to not expect such shoot and scoot encounters. I can only hope that lessons were learned.

c) India has never strategically lost a full blown armed conflict with Pakistan. I'll not claim that India has militarily won all conflicts with Pakistan because that is debatable. Even today, if Pakistan is to unilaterally attack India (without directly aided by China in a secondary front), India will prevail.

If Pakistanis truly believe that Pakistan has nothing more to settle with India, then both countries can convert LoC to International Border and live in peace

Musharraf offered to recognise the LOC as the border but this was actually refused by India - there was some back channels talks with M Singh.

1962 was the first and only time India in its short history fought a country of similar size and it lost 38,000 sq km in Aksai Chin.

Pakistan on the other hand has bloodied powers much much larger than itself not just India but also USSR and US.

The 1971 one bit is quite preposterous. Mughals ruled India before Brits came? There was no Hindu rule as such for which you are claiming to have divided India? What sort of a victory you are trying to claim here? The whole preposition is ridiculous. Yes we have always packed a punch above our weight. We have successfully deterred India in majority of cases unless we had severe disadvantage of some sort (like in 1971 territorial, logistical issues). If it was India having part of its land next to Afghanistan we would probably have done something about it by now as well. The quality of our forces is better despite India having more numbers. But this sort of pseudo nationalism and is very Indian mindset, don't fall for it. Take a defeat with grace. We are graceful people, not Indians.

The Indian military is the only military which surrendered 134,000 troops, aircraft, warships to Pakistan in 1947 without a shot fired.

You never really hear Pakistani's complaining about the partition of India - it was necessary and without Pakistan would not be a reality.

Listen to any BJP/RSS or Indian hawk, they all get teary eyed when it comes to the 1947 partition of India.

But they love to talk about the 1971 war.

So like I said, yes 90,000 POW in 1971, but what about the 134,000 in 1947 that India surrendered to Pakistan without a shot fired?

 

[Maira La]

If anything, muslims hate hindus , christians and sikhs with similar intensity if not higher than vice versa.

Hindus is not comparable to Christians, Sikhs. Hinduism is not a religion, it's a 3000 year old slave making cult that somehow made it to 21st century because of Indian continent's cultural backwardness and low IQ.
Hinduism needs a global ban. The hundreds of millions of lower castes must be liberated.

 

[Khan1988]

Pakistan has settled ...of its scores with India

So Kashmir issue is resolved ? You have no clue !

 

[Green Machine]

The idea of Pakistan during partition was a separate country for Muslims. While a new country was formed, the idea that a Muslim land will be carved failed. Several thousand of muslims in India refused to move the new promise land. To add insult to injury, a new country was carved out of the muslim land called Pakistan.

The score is only settled when

1) Indian Muslims get their own land.
2) Pakistan does better in every way when compared to India.

Mr.OP while you just opened a new thread with your narrative, the initial idea of Pakistan remains threatened until your country does better than India or defeat India to carve out a new land for Indian Muslims because as long as Muslims stay reasonably comfortably in India as they are right now and as India keeps adding more and more opportunities, the insecurity you experienced while creating this thread may never go away.

All the best!

The idea of India as a secular state has failed infact it has become according to Indian's themselves a "Hindu Pakistan".

The idea of secular India in which all people are equal despite religion, caste, language has failed in a spectacular fashion.

To add insult to injury the Indian state is moving towards what Pakistan was envisioned for Islamic faith namely a "Hindu Rashtra".

Indian Muslims did get their own land in 1947 in the areas in which they were the majority - Kashmir being a princely state not included.

A Muslim minority rule like in South Africa for India as Gandhi wished to prevent the partition of India would not have been feasibile long term.

Ultimately the Hindu majority would revolt and Muslims would be a permanent minority in a unified India.

Dividing India and creating Pakistan was the only way to ensure the independence of the Muslims in regions that they are the majority,

 

[MultaniGuy]

Pakistan has settled all of its scores with India - Refute me if but the below are facts.

India

1947/1948
In the first 1947/48 war Pakistan captured over 86,268 sq Km of territory - this is an area larger than the European country of Austria.

Whilst India will argue it controls the Kashmir Valley and the more fertile area, the fact remains that Pakistan's gains in that war gave it a border with China and denied India a border with Afghanistan, not just that the enduring benefit that this territory is providing Pakistan and China in terms of CPEC, not to mention it gained K2 and the majority of the 8000m peaks in the world, therefore the more strategic part of Kashmir was gained by Pakistan.

1965
India failed to use its numerical superiority to win after crossing the international boundary - It was a stalemate but ofcourse given the David and Goliath nature of the battle fighting India to a stalement and denying it victory is a huge achievement. India has failed in every single war to capture Lahore which given it is barely 17 KM from the international border shows the utter failure of Indian forces, I am sure they would like to have captured Lahore to use it as a bargaining power given it is the second largest city of Pakistan.

1971
We lost this war - But we forget that we played a role in the partition of India and divided them first in 1947. The land of Pakistan was carved out of the womb of mother India with the British being an eager midwife. So if any Indian likes to remind us of the 1971 war - we must ofcourse remind them of the partition of 1947.

Infact, the Indian Army, Navy, Airforce itself was partitioned, so if they say 90000 POW, We must remind them of the 140,000 men of the India army that went to Pakistan as a result of the partition of India without a shot fired. Indian army has failed since 1947 to undo its own partition and the partition of its motherland.

1984
India captured some part of the Siachen glacier - but we also control an area of the glacier, More Indians have died on the glazier and will continue to die due to harsh weather, not to mention the cost involved for them to maintain forces, so it has and will continue to be a thorn on the side of Indians.

1974/1998
We settled all nuclear tests in 1998 - One for Smiling Bhudda in 1974 and five for Pokharan - These were the actual words use by Nawaz Sharif in May 1998.

1999
Status Quo Ante Bellum - We did not loose any territory, better we ingress into Indian held areas than wait until they ingress into ours, our nuclear deterrent held.

2001
Standoff - Pakistan nuclear deterrent held, more Indian soldiers died in the mobilisation

2019
A total failure and miss by IAF - They did not need to wait long the response at Rajauri, lost a Mig 21, MI-17, 6 IAF and 1 civillian, and 1 POW.

So, We should be proud of our performance given that India is much larger, we have bloodied them repeatedly and continue to be a massive thorn.

Pakistan has since its inception punched well above its weight - India, USSR, USA etc.

But I ask any Indian reading this, Why is it the only time India fought a country of equal size namely China in 1962 it lost?

Personally when I look back at 1971, that was our fault. We should never have attempted to retake East Pakistan.
Kashmir is the only thing that is relevant.
East Pakistan was a lost cause from the beginning.

The Muslim League gave us something to work with, and we screwed up big time.

Sorry if I offend my fellow Pakistanis, but I cannot agree with this narrative.

None of the hindu majority states went to Pakistan. Only muslim majority provinces of British India were divided and Pakistan was created as a moth eaten state.

On top of this, Kashmir which was 80% muslim and specifically the valley which had more muslims than lahore and karachi by percentage is being occupied by india. Our poor leadership played a big role too.

If Kashmir was a normal province it would automatically go to Pakistan.

india amputated more than half of Pakistan, but Pakistan hasnt done so. India continues to sponsor terrorism against Pakistan while Pakistan has not returned the favor proportionally.

Our leadership and bureaucracy right from 47 on wards has been extremely incompetent and corrupt and has failed us on every aspect.

The only true silver lining is the brave foot soldiers and selfless people like the ones we saw in 47/48, when GB scouts, Tribal pashtuns, Azad forces and brave ill equipped soldiers of the new Pakistan army fought barefoot and without even guns in many cases and extended Pakistan's frontiers while our leadership was too coward to even visit them on the front lines.

This same cadre is why we have a nuclear armed set up and have given a brave reply to india; otherwise, an overwhelming majority of bureaucracy and leadership of this country is corrupt to the core.

Again, sorry for anything offensive, this is how I feel.

What do you mean by half? East Pakistan is only the size of Sindh province if not smaller.

 

[Green Machine]

Great what about other achievements ??? What about pakistani economy ??? Has pakistan been to space?? Does pakistan have the success that Indians are achieveing worldwide??

The only thing India and Pakistan have achieved parity on is making our people suffer pain due to losses.

I like your picture of Bhagat Singh who was a great Pakistani - I wish Indians would stop claiming Pakistani's as their heros!

It is only very recently that India has somewhat overtaken Pakistan economically - infact for the majority of its history Pakistan has enjoyed a higher GDP per capita than India, I do not recall any Pakistanis beating their chest at that point.

Truth be told, Bangladesh has surpassed both India and Pakistan - Economically it is better of than both. I understand that this hurts the ego of Indians and Pakistanis, mostly Indians who despite their efforts to help liberate them, Bangladesh has surpassed India economically in less than 50 years what India has not been able to do in 75 year - three quarters of a century.

So no, Pakistan does not need to go to space, it does not have any great power ambitions - it simply needs to be able to put a man in space and bring him back to earth and given that even the super rich namely Richard Branson and Jeff Bezos can do that, I am sure the government of Pakistan if it takes the political decision and perhaps with a little Chinese know-how can put a man in space. Pakistan will then join the list of countries that have entered space with a manned flight.

Pakistan does not need Indian space programme, it simply needs the symbols of those things much like Russia can not match the USA but it retains the ability and even infact beat them into space in the first place with Yuri Gagarin.