Pakistan failed Kashmir in AJK

[I M Sikander]

And do you think the thought process has changed? Pakistan lost Kashmir when Pandits were drove out of the valley. A freedom struggle was reduced to Sunni struggle. No matter how hard anyone try, the valley is not going anywhere now.

We still have 40 percent of Kashmir in the form of Azad Kashmir and GB, which is peaceful unlike IOK, which is boiling with insurgency nd freedom struggle.

 

[Pakistani E]

And do you think the thought process has changed? Pakistan lost Kashmir when Pandits were drove out of the valley. A freedom struggle was reduced to Sunni struggle. No matter how hard anyone try, the valley is not going anywhere now.

I kind of agree with you, but the establishment figures in Pakistan have fragile egos, supporting religious crazies in Kashmir was just one of their inglorious list of achievements. But one can hope, there are still enough Kashmiris to see that even if Pakistan has transformed the nature of the conflict, it does not mean we have to accept Indian rule, not in its current state at least.

 

[ranjeet]

Pakistan hand over that part only for administration purpose, Its only reachable through China.

How West Pakistan reached East Pakistan before 1971?

 

[Areesh]

I want all the territories of Jammu and Kashmir to have the choice of joining whichever state they choose. Pakistan has no right to hand over any territory of Kashmir to China without consenting the people of that area.

Two things.

1 The area he is talking about has no population
2 British India already ceased claim on that territory.

This is one of the famous BS that India bring to justify its occupation of Kashmir. Other one is that Pandit excuse. Neither Indian government has any interest in sending Pundits back to Kashmir nor a lot of Pundits want to go back. It is just another of those pawns and excuse used for defense of occupation.

 

[HAIDER]

How West Pakistan reached East Pakistan before 1971?

That was different story and conditions were different. IOK is no fly zone for Pakistan.

 

[Pakistani E]

Two things.

1 The area he is talking about has no population
2 British India already ceased claim on that territory.

This is one of the famous BS that India bring to justify its occupation of Kashmir. Other one is that Pandit excuse. Neither Indian government has any interest in sending Pundits back to Kashmir nor a lot of Pundits want to go back. It is just another of those pawns and excuse used for defense of occupation.

1. I agree with the first, especially the administration bit seeing as if that was not the case, the Indians would have taken it too. But I don't agree with the second point, it was an integral part of the historical Jammu and Kashmir region, in the future I hope the people of that area, however sparsely populated, have the right to join with their Kashmiri brethren in national liberation.

 

[ranjeet]

We still have 40 percent of Kashmir in the form of Azad Kashmir and GB, which is peaceful unlike IOK, which is boiling with insurgency nd freedom struggle.

Before 1989 IOK was peaceful too. it was the injection of Islamic movement which brought about insurgency and freedom struggle in our part. Let me tell you one thing, the anger you see in average Indian poster about Kashmir is due to how Pandits were treated in the valley. Had they been part of the freedom struggle things would have been a lot different.

 

[American Pakistani]

you didn't quote me. I quoted you to deny the lies that you were presenting in your post.

It was occupied by China. There was little to no population in that area.Same is with Tibet. Both of these areas are/were part of China, They were under their control We just accepted China's control without any war. Unlike You. Who got a beating and then lost all the territory that you hold in Aksai China. And if that wasn't enough. You got more beating in other sector of the war and gave all of Tibet to China too. Double beating. Gave both Tibet and Aksai Chin to China and here you are lecturing us about a land that is not even occupied by any human.

We didn't surrender our interests. Our demarcation of borders with China was an excellent strategic move. You cry till today about it. Your pain tells us it was a success for Pakistan and a defeat for enemies of Pakistan and kashmiris.

To add into that China actually withdrew it's forces from a big part of Kashmir and handed over to Pakistan.

The agreement resulted in China withdrawing from about 750 sq m of territory, and Pakistan withdrawing its claim to about 2,050 sq m of territory (which it had not in fact occupied or administered).

Pakistan only backed from it's claims on something that it never had control of. That territory was Chinese for centuries. Whereas China actually withdrew it's forces from the land it controlled and that land became part of Gilgit Baltistan. Indians are becoming pathalogical liers as the time passes, these lies are taught by their media and army.

 

[I M Sikander]

Before 1989 IOK was peaceful too. it was the injection of Islamic movement which brought about insurgency and freedom struggle in our part. Let me tell you one thing, the anger you see in average Indian poster about Kashmir is due to how Pandits were treated in the valley. Had they been part of the freedom struggle things would have been a lot different.

Azad Kashmir and GB are still peaceful as ever.
Whereas IOK is facing indian brutalities since 1947 and the reasons are very well known. I don't need to explain.

 

[jha]

I kind of agree with you, but the establishment figures in Pakistan have fragile egos, supporting religious crazies in Kashmir was just one of their inglorious list of achievements. But one can hope, there are still enough Kashmiris to see that even if Pakistan has transformed the nature of the conflict, it does not mean we have to accept Indian rule, not in its current state at least.

There are many such kashmiris and they tend to agree with the direction the conflict is going to. Sunni-supremacist slogans are chanted and Mirwaiz Farooq openly talks about the danger Ahmadis pose to valley. Space for your kind of people ( secular minded and Free Kashmir ) has vanished from valley itself.

 

[Pakistani E]

There are many such kashmiris and they tend to agree with the direction the conflict is going to. Sunni-supremacist slogans are chanted and Mirwaiz Farooq openly talks about the danger Ahmadis pose to valley. Space for your kind of people ( secular minded and Free Kashmir ) has vanished from valley itself.

But the fact there is a large number of Kashmiri voices are who want to welcome the Pandits back in to the Valley shows that contrary to what the perception is, the Vast majority of Kashmiris are not religious bigots and the struggle for independence is that of national liberation, not a religious war between Hindus and Muslims (Which is something, both India and Pakistan want to portray and thus discredit the liberation movement.)

 

[ranjeet]

I kind of agree with you, but the establishment figures in Pakistan have fragile egos, supporting religious crazies in Kashmir was just one of their inglorious list of achievements. But one can hope, there are still enough Kashmiris to see that even if Pakistan has transformed the nature of the conflict, it does not mean we have to accept Indian rule, not in its current state at least.

To be honest I do believe that Pakistan is trying to break away from the religious/sectarian past. One of the best moment in the recent history that I still remember and appreciate is the way how leader of LeJ chief was disposed off. That moment really made me think that things are about to change in future. But as the doubting Indian I still think there are some elements in the establishment that don't want to go the whole mile.

Pakistan wants Kashmir and they have the right to adopt any strategy they prefer and we have every right to stop that from happening.

 

[American Pakistani]

Under this agreement Pakistan retained all territories that were under its control in areas contiguous to China’s Xinjiang region. In addition, Pakistan also obtained 1,942 square kilometres of territory under the effective control of the Chinese.

This additional area constitutes the Shimshal region, north of the main watershed dividing Pakistan and China. Here the Shimshali inhabitants of north Hunza had historically enjoyed grazing rights, and had previously established a post without Chinese objection. Apart from this projection, the boundary followed the main watershed between the Tarim river system (tributaries of the Tashkurgan river) and the Indus river system (tributaries of the Hunza river).

@Areesh @waz @DESERT FIGHTER @Delnavaz B @Tameem @Pakistani Exile @hussain0216

 

[ranjeet]

Azad Kashmir and GB are still peaceful as ever.
Whereas IOK is facing indian brutalities since 1947 and the reasons are very well known. I don't need to explain.

the only brutalities I read about in 1947/48 were about how Pakistani irregulars went on a rampage. Had Kashmiris been on the side of Pakistan since 1947, no one would have helped out India during 1965 war.

 

[Pakistani E]

To be honest I do believe that Pakistan is trying to break away from the religious/sectarian past. One of the best moment in the recent history that I still remember and appreciate is the way how leader of LeJ chief was disposed off. That moment really made me think that things are about to change in future. But as the doubting Indian I still think there are some elements in the establishment that don't want to go the whole mile.

I know, I've been noticing it too, but the pessimist in me wants Pakistan to keep pushing till we break the hold of crazies. There are a certain few steps I want Pakistan to take before I will satisfied.

Pakistan wants Kashmir and they have the right to adopt any strategy they prefer and we have every right to stop that from happening.

Natural of both India and Pakistan to take every right step to be honest, but it is also then natural for the Kashmiri stuck in the middle to ask, "what about asking me? after all, it is my country."