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Pakistan failed Kashmir in AJK

you didn't quote me. I quoted you to deny the lies that you were presenting in your post.

You sir, posted your ignorance. There are no lies in my post . Gave you the reference itself from your own Brigadier sahib. Did you read it? I guess not.

It was occupied by China. There was little to no population in that area.Same is with Tibet. Both of these areas are/were part of China,

Only one question, did or did not the Nawab of Hunza accede with all his territories to the Dominion of Pakistan? Did or did not the Nawab of Hunza have claims and was indeed occupying the areas in summer? If it was so, did you or did you not have claims as the State of Hunza acceded to you and by the virtue of same you had claims over all the territories it exercised claim over?

Think long, think slow, consult if you need, and then answer. Don't give me tripe!

They were under their control We just accepted China's control without any war. Unlike You. Who got a beating and then lost all the territory that you hold in Aksai China.

So how come the Nawab of Hunza was claiming it, and the Roay family of Shigar would have a polo ground there to play polo with the rulers of Yarkhand? Any rationale?

And why would herdsmen of Hunza graze their cattle there?

Aksai we were late in occupying, granted, Southern Tibet or the modern day Arunachal Pradesh we successfully occupied even though legally it was part of Tibet till 1959 when Indian army entered and sent all the tibetan reps packing. We tried in one place and succeeded in another. We lost trying .. you surrendered. just like that. The analogy of your hordes in Kashmir and what the chinese did to you politically is too strong for me!!


And if that wasn't enough. You got more beating in other sector of the war and gave all of Tibet to China too. Double beating. Gave both Tibet and Aksai Chin to China and here you are lecturing us about a land that is not even occupied by any human.

Reference wherein Indian army was in Tibet or India had suzerainty over Tibet ever in history of Tibet. If you don't post any, then you are a case of delusive disorder and a mere oaf.

We didn't surrender our interests. Our demarcation of borders with China was an excellent strategic move. You cry till today about it. Your pain tells us it was a success for Pakistan and a defeat for enemies of Pakistan and kashmiris.

Hunza may also be handed over to them .... justify all you want.
 
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You know nothing. You have always had embarrassingly short term visions.

Nobody in Pakistan needs their visions verified from people who are murdering Kashmiris.
 
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Long before CPEC we worked with China for KKH and other projects and they didn't occupy even an inch of GB. So don't forget to give me a notification when China would actually occupy Gigit and Hunza. Bye.

In 2012, a Chinese Army Brigade was sitting on the Skardu - Minimarg - Taobat axis ..... now go figure.

Cheers and gudnite
 
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and I laugh at the Kashmiri who is gullible enough to believe you. You sent your hordes to rape and plunder their land in 1947 and you cede their territory to appease China and then claim their best interests.
What hypocrisy!

The Kashmiri in me believes that Indians are not serious at all about Kashmiris desire for freedom. I have had no trouble convincing Pakistanis that if Kashmiris want independence from Pakistan they would be in their right, but say that to an Indian, he immediately becomes someone who jumps in joy when stone throwing protesters are killed.
Our friend @Pakistani Exile here is an ahmedi. Although I hate to point out his sect but I guess he doesn't know how freedom fighters on our side of the LOC feel about them.

I know exactly how they feel, I said quite a long time ago on this forum that Pakistan lost the goodwill of many Kashmiris when they marginalised Kashmiri centrist figures and replaced them with their friendly religious crazies. The freedom struggle died down because Kashmiris on Indian side of the border realised they were being flooded by right wing religious crazies who were targeting not just Pandits but also Shias and turning a national freedom struggle in to a holy war of one sect.

A wrong from the Pakistani side however does not negate the freedom struggles of Kashmiris.

Acknowledging freedom struggles in Pakistan is never a part of the Pakistani states propaganda..Most West Pakistanis were laughing at East Pakistan's freedom struggle..till it finally happened.

I would acknowledge freedom struggle in AJK if I believed it. I know more Azad Kashmiris than any Indian here, I have yet to find a single one who is anti Pakistani, even if they are for independence of a United Kashmir. How many Azad Kashmiris did you meet to acknowledge the freedom struggle brewing in AJK?

There are Indians and Indians.

And which Indian are you, Sir? :P
 
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You sir, posted your ignorance. There are no lies in my post . Gave you the reference itself from your own Brigadier sahib. Did you read it? I guess not.

Yes dear they are lies. As for Brigadier Sahab. It further confirmed my belief that we pulled out an excellent deal with China. Despite the fact that historically there were no demarcated borders between China and British India and despite the fact that Ruler of Hunza gave allegiance to China, we got a very good deal without any bloodshed. It is far better than losing territory after a humiliating war like you did in 1962 war.

Only one question, did or did not the Nawab of Hunza accede with all his territories to the Dominion of Pakistan? Did or did not the Nawab of Hunza have claims and was indeed occupying the areas in summer? If it was so, did you or did you not have claims as the State of Hunza acceded to you and by the virtue of same you had claims over all the territories it exercised claim over?

The answer to your questions is already in the article that you shared. Did you read it before sharing it with me? :lol:

Read what the article says:

from Sir Claude MacDonald” to China, so that a boundary is determined between China and British India, subsequently termed as Macdonald line. It was suggested that China should relinquish its claims to suzerainty over Hunza. In reciprocation, Hunza would withdraw its claims to most of the Taghdumbash and Raskam districts. The suggested border would broadly follow the main Karakoram crest, which divided the watersheds of the Indus River and the Tarim River, with an exception of the pass through a Hunza post at Darwaza near the Shimshal Pass. The Chinese Government did not respond to that note. The British took it as concurrence of China. The Macdonald line was unilaterally revised in 1905

Article further says:

In 1926, Kenneth Mason explored and surveyed the Shaksgam Valley. Although, the Government of British India ceased to claim her territory, north of the Macdonald line, but the British maps had remained unchanged

So British government and Hunza ruler had already given up claim on the land that exists on north of Mc Donald line.

So how come the Nawab of Hunza was claiming it, and the Roay family of Shigar would have a polo ground there to play polo with the rulers of Yarkhand? Any rationale?

And why would herdsmen of Hunza graze their cattle there?

Already answered. Read the article yourself before sharing it with others. Looks like excitement got the better of you. After all you had an article to "refute" a Pakistani. :lol:

Assai we were late in occupying, granted, Southern Tibet or the modern day Arunachal Pradesh we successfully occupied even though legally it was part of Tibet till 1959 when Indian army entered and sent all the tibetan reps packing. We tried in one place and succeeded in another. We lost trying .. you surrendered. just like that. The analogy of your hordes in Kashmir and what the chinese did to you politically is too strong for me!!

Lies again my dear. The fact is that you used to have outposts and positions in Aksai china before the war. You had presence in Aksai China. You got a thrashing and lost all the presence that you had in Aksai China. About Tibet and Arunachal sector. The fact is that you got a thrashing here too. You even vacated Tawang without putting up any resistance to Chinese attack. Honestly speaking Chinese could have taken back Arunachal Pardesh or a lot of portions of if they wanted to continue the fight.

It was china who declared ceasefire first since it had reached its claimed lines. They did a mercy on you. Be grteful to them.

Reference wherein Indian army was in Tibet or India had suzerainty over Tibet ever in history of Tibet. If you don't post any, then you are a case of delusive disorder and a mere oaf.

Don't get emotional my dear. I never said that you held Tibet. You tried to create a few outposts in Tibet like in Namkha chu valley. And after the war you lost all the outposts. I said you fought with China in that sector and got a good enough beating which resulted in China fully and completely controlling all of Tibet.

Hunza may also be handed over to them .... justify all you want.

As I said. Nobody here is interested in your stories about "evil nature" of China. Wake us up when it actually happens. Till then keep dreaming about it.

And thanks for the article. :lol:

In 2012, a Chinese Army Brigade was sitting on the Skardu - Minimarg - Taobat axis ..... now go figure.

Cheers and gudnite

Proof?

Anyways its 4 years since 2012. Still Chinese didn't complete their occupation? They did so in a few days in war with India. :lol:
 
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Polling in 41 constituencies of Azad Kashmir (AJK) Legislative Assembly was held on Thursday. 41 is also the number of people killed by the Indian forces till the night before the elections in the latest surge of violence in Indian held Kashmir (IHK).

The juxtaposition of the two parts of the bifurcated land of Kashmir would’ve given Pakistani politicians a sensation of sadistic euphoria. After all, what ‘better’ time to woo Kashmiris in Pakistan Administered Kashmir than a period when Kashmiris across the LoC were being brutally victimised?

It was political goldmine. But one for 2018.

The AJK elections themselves are a facade, of course. The territory will be governed by the federal government regardless. But the way to a Pakistani voter’s heart often traverses Kashmir. Hence, political hedonism in Pakistan encourages steaming the stew while Kashmir burns.

That Pakistan’s least autonomous region’s name is prefixed with ‘Azad’ (Free) perfectly epitomises Islamabad’s idea of freedom for Kashmir. This is precisely why jihadist Hizb-ul-Mujahideen is presented as the face of Kashmiri struggle while Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) and the United Kashmir People’s National Party (PNP) have beensidelined in AJK and IHK, with more than just the well-wishes of the Pakistani establishment.

Regardless of the lies that Pakistan rehashes at the UN, freedom for Kashmir in Islamabad – and especially Rawalpindi – is synonymous with accession to Pakistan. This is why jihadist groups that hobnob with the who’s who of South Asian terror outfits are projected as freedom fighters, while groups like JKLF that gave up militancy for a political struggle for independence have been completely purged out in AJK.

While JKLF’s Kashmir banega khudmukhtar (Kashmir will become independent) was being replaced with Hizb’s Kashmir banega Pakistan (Kashmir will become Pakistan), the number of Kashmiris being killed increased in synchrony. And the more Kashmiris died chanting the latter, the stronger Pakistan’s case at the UN became – through no play of coincidence.

But of course, in the real world – that isn’t headquartered by Jihadist Utopia – there was no better way for Pakistan to strengthen its case than by showcasing freedom in ‘Azad’ Kashmir. A good measure of that would be to count the number of pro-freedom parties participating in yesterday’s AJK polling.

AJK Constitution’s Part 2, Section 7 reads:

No person or political party in Azad Jammu and Kashmir shall be permitted to…take part in activities… detrimental to the ideology of the state’s accession to Pakistan.

AJK Legislative Assembly Election Ordinance’s Section 5 (2) (vii) reads:

A person will be disqualified for propagating any opinion or action in any manner prejudicial to… the ideology of state’s [sic] accession to Pakistan…

This effectively means that anyone not taking oath declaring that Kashmir is an integral part of Pakistan cannot – and does not – contest elections in AJK. The same is also true for any government employee in AJK.

The heavy military presence in a disputed territory is understandable. The 22 militant camps where jihadists are taught and trained, is not. Banning books which are contrary to ‘the state’s accession to Pakistan’ or quashing independent journalism – is not either.

Books like Saeed Asad’s Shaur-e-Farda have been banned simply for containing JKLF founder Maqbool Butt’s letters. Meanwhile, Reuters correspondent Waheed Kiyani was abducted after covering a Kashmir Unity Conference in 2003, where only four of around 300 delegates voted for accession (two each for India and Pakistan) and the rest voting for independence. After Kiyani was released, the then AJK President Sardar Muhammad Anwar Khan told him, ‘Be grateful you are alive and offer thanksgiving prayers’ on the stage while addressing a seminar in Muzaffarabad.

Syed Salahuddin, Hizb’s Spiritual Commander and United Jihad Council’s (UJC) chairman, also addressed a press conference in Muzaffarabad days after taking responsibility of the Pathankot attack in January this year. This was when Pakistani security forces were launching crackdowns in Bahawalpur ‘to find the perpetrators of the Pathankot attack’.

While Rawalpindi’s double-play on Kashmir bound jihadists was in full flow post Pathankot attack, Islamabad was considering transforming Gilgit-Baltistan (GB) into Pakistan’s fifth province, amidst protests by the AJK and GB officials and activists. The decision to compromise Jammu & Kashmir’s territorial integrity and Kashmiris’ united stand for autonomy and freedom is being mulled because Beijing doesn’t want CPEC to enter Pakistan through a disputed territory.

And so, the federal government considering annexation of GB; the establishment nourishing Kashmir-bound terror groups; the AJK Constitution demanding an oath of accession to Pakistan from any policymaker; the clergy using the plight of a people to further its Islamist agenda and the media stuffing air-time and print spaces over matters currently in Indian control; highlights how Pakistani state institutions have collectively failed Kashmir in order to score points in their respective spheres of interest.

In highlighting Indian atrocities while hiding our own, not only are Pakistani institutions ‘cashing in’ on Kashmiri plight, they’re actually exacerbating it. Hizb and Burhan Wani, that are being eulogised by the liberal and conservative sections alike, are affiliated with terror groups responsible for abducting and killing Kashmiris in AJK as well. The Kashmiri blood that the likes of Harkat-ul- Mujahideen, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad and Harkat-ul-Jihad-e-Islami have on their hands, isn’t only limited to the other side of the LoC.

It is because of the combined failure of all our state institutions in Kashmir that Pakistan’s counter-terror strategy and the National Action Plan (NAP) can’t help being a sham. For once we start disowning jihadist groups in Kashmir we would have to give in to the will of the Kashmiri people. And despite three decades of Islamist propaganda, the will of the entire people of Kashmir, isn’t necessarily represented by those shouting Kashmir banayga Pakistan the loudest.

http://muslimworldtoday.org/2016/07/pakistan-failed-kashmir-ajk/

@hellfire @PARIKRAMA @SpArK @SarthakGanguly @anant_s @JanjaWeed
A piece of comedy.
Azad Kashmir is the most peaceful and prosperous region of whole Pakistan.
Unlike IOK , which is burning since 1947, az add Kashmiri people are living a Happy contended life., That's what burning indian butts.
 
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This board has well over dozen posters from Azad Kashmir, and it's also my ancestral land. Pakistan hasn't failed AKJ, its rulers have. They've also failed the rest of Pakistan as well. The people remain overwhelming Pro-Pakistan and the younger generation no longer differentiate themselves from their kin in the rest of Pakistan.
On a final point, this dispute will never end.
 
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The Kashmiri in me believes that Indians are not serious at all about Kashmiris desire for freedom. I have had no trouble convincing Pakistanis that if Kashmiris want independence from Pakistan they would be in their right, but say that to an Indian, he immediately becomes someone who jumps in joy when stone throwing protesters are killed.

Firstly, you are not kashmiri in the true sense until and unless you have migrated from the valley proper.

Secondly, the instrument of accession is binding there is no negotiation about it.

thirdly, first get back the territories of hunza that you ceded to China if you are a kashmiri

Cheers and goodnight.
 
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I know exactly how they feel, I said quite a long time ago on this forum that Pakistan lost the goodwill of many Kashmiris when they marginalised Kashmiri centrist figures and replaced them with their friendly religious crazies. The freedom struggle died down because Kashmiris on Indian side of the border realised they were being flooded by right wing religious crazies who were targeting not just Pandits but also Shias and turning a national freedom struggle in to a holy war of one sect.
And do you think the thought process has changed? Pakistan lost Kashmir when Pandits were drove out of the valley. A freedom struggle was reduced to Sunni struggle. No matter how hard anyone try, the valley is not going anywhere now.
 
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Acknowledging freedom struggles in Pakistan is never a part of the Pakistani states propaganda..Most West Pakistanis were laughing at East Pakistan's freedom struggle..till it finally happened.
Hahahah.
Kids like you are still living in 71 era and comparing Kashmir with Bangladesh.

We very well know how much Burhan Want and Kashmir freedom struggle is causing frustration on indian side.

The 600 hundred thousand Indian army is stuck there for the last 3 decades.
 
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Firstly, you are not kashmiri in the true sense until and unless you have migrated from the valley proper.

Secondly, the instrument of accession is binding there is no negotiation about it.

thirdly, first get back the territories of hunza that you ceded to China if you are a kashmiri

Cheers and goodnight.

First of all, I don't need to prove my Kashmiryat to you, with all due respect. I know exactly where my family comes from. The instrument of accession is a paper signed by a scion of tyrannical dynasty who is hated by every Kashmir peasant from the whole of Kashmir who witnessed the glorious reign of their bigotry and intolerance. That paper is worth nothing to me or others who want independence for Kashmir, you can wave it about all you want.

I want all the territories of Jammu and Kashmir to have the choice of joining whichever state they choose. Pakistan has no right to hand over any territory of Kashmir to China without consenting the people of that area.

Good night to you, and sweet dreams. :D
 
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thirdly, first get back the territories of hunza that you ceded to China if you are a kashmiri

Cheers and goodnight.

This might be your third point. But the thing is that you should stop lying about these territories to defend your occupation.

Now Good night. Sleep tight. :)
 
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Did you guys asked the kashmiris on our side of the border before handing over the land to China?
Pakistan hand over that part only for administration purpose, Its only reachable through China.
 
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