Pakistan failed Kashmir in AJK

[jaunty]

Excellent find @ranjeet Pakistan has no moral high ground on the Kashmir issue as they like to bluster. They are also in it for the land and water. If ever India were to grant Kashmir independence (which will be never), Pakistan would do a Crimea in no time.

 

[livingdead]

what we are doing in j&k is much worse... I wont compare the sides when we come out looking like villian.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

For once, a good post from @ranjeet .



We're all right about it. It's some other country whose COAS keeps going on TV and suggesting a mutual pull-out.

Because soldiers are dying .. And yours more than ours .. You and us up there are fighting Mother Nature rather than eachother.

My father spend 2.5 years there in the early 90s. I know people including a Lt col who lost his legs after capturing a post and getting stranded there for days..

I know people who have lost their lives in Avalanches (Gayari sector).

Now if a former army man like yourself can't see the wisdom in a mutual pull out .. I don't think anybody else will.

You won't need one. Your descendants will.

Again you are towing the lines of the same idiot "bakhts" you yourself dislike.

Baltistan and Chinese brigades.. Really!

Balistan - Bunji is home to NLI... FCNA and Baltistan Scouts..

Do you know what the locals have been demanding since decades after they voluntarily ceded with Pak in November 1947 after fighting a war lead by local officers and soldiers against the Dogra and British ?

They want a provincial status... Even if today we hold a referendum we can legally make GB a province of Pak.., but unfortunately it was the short sightedness of our rulers who clubbed GB with the Kashmir issue to secure a fully positive result in when referendum is held.

 

[Hellfire]

Yes dear they are lies. As for Brigadier Sahab. It further confirmed my belief that we pulled out an excellent deal with China. Despite the fact that historically there were no demarcated borders between China and British India and despite the fact that Ruler of Hunza gave allegiance to China, we got a very good deal without any bloodshed. It is far better than losing territory after a humiliating war like you did in 1962 war. ...........
Anyways its 4 years since 2012. Still Chinese didn't complete their occupation? They did so in a few days in war with India.

Read the Indian Independence Act of 1947 which gives you, as a nation, legitimacy. All the territories you inherited, you inherited with their claims. Since you have been kind enough to read through, also read up about McCartney-Macdonald Line and Johnson Line (which the Maharaja used as his claim line & which India uses which has no historical logic nor value and is the reason for the unsettled boundary dispute with China).

Also read about the historical occupancy of the Trans-Karakoram Tract or the Shaksgam valley by the Rulers of Hunza,

It has been suitably discussed on this very forum and is tiresome to delve into everytime.

Only two points:

1. Pakistan was keen on a boundary settlement with China. It was Pakistan which initiated the boundary settlement with China and dispatched the Gilgit Scouts to militarily beef up the situation in the area as regular Chinese incursions were taking place. Pakistan was keen to settle a boundary with China as it achieved two aims:

a. Give Pakistan legitimacy by an Asian power in the question of J&K, which was hostile to India.

b. To balance the position as it was a firm US ally, a known anti-China nation at the time.

2. You simply gave up the Shagsgam valley - the Ruler of Hunza protested the act. Point to be noted is that Chinese agreed for a boundary agreement only after you assured then backing at UN for a permanent seat. Also it is pertinent to note here that this agreement is a transient agreement and not a permanent agreement as a clause to re-adrress the issue is incorporated upon final settlement of Kashmir question. In short, when China has seemingly given ground to you (as per your politicians who lie to themselves and all they can lie to) this leaves open a way for a future claims.

That the Chinese were called upon at all instances of sino-indian boundary demarcation by the British is a historical fact. Be it the Macartney-Macdonald Line or the McMahon line, they deftly portrayed an impression of assent and then when the situation was in their favour, simply retracted from their position. It is a historical fact of the Chinese negotiation method and also that the Chinese have claimed all territories held by them howsoever briefly or by Tibet.

On a side note, yes, settling your boundary was a sensible move. But not settling it permanently is a strategic mistake. You just read the Indian stupidities with respect to China and you will realise.

Cheers.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Excellent find @ranjeet Pakistan has no moral high ground on the Kashmir issue as they like to bluster. They are also in it for the land and water. If ever India were to grant Kashmir independence (which will be never), Pakistan would do a Crimea in no time.

Il be honest... The public had no idea if it's about water or land.. The general public is more concerned about Kashmiris rather than anything else.

Kashmiris are naturally seen as our own people.. In Pakistan specially Panjab Kashmiris have be trading and settling here since centuries .. A large population of Panjab itself is of Kashmiri origins.. Dar,Lone,Khwaja,butt:bhatt etc ordinary names in Panjab.. Yet they are all "Kashmiri" by origin.. Till the late 90s Kashmiris from IOK had been migrating to Pak... Today we have millions of Kashmiris from IOK..

 

[Hellfire]

First of all, I don't need to prove my Kashmiryat to you, with all due respect. I know exactly where my family comes from.

That is good. Am tired of Mirpuris claiming themselves as Kashmiris!!

The instrument of accession is a paper signed by a scion of tyrannical dynasty who is hated by every Kashmir peasant from the whole of Kashmir who witnessed the glorious reign of their bigotry and intolerance. That paper is worth nothing to me or others who want independence for Kashmir, you can wave it about all you want.

Discussed and bored of it. Go speak to Sheikh Abdullah who was the acknowledged leader at the time and consented to Accession to India. Lets not bore ourselves again with it.

I want all the territories of Jammu and Kashmir to have the choice of joining whichever state they choose. Pakistan has no right to hand over any territory of Kashmir to China without consenting the people of that area.

Ceded Shagsgam valley a portion of State of Hunza, the Nawab himself protested the same. Were people of J&K asked? (Hint answer: No)

Anyways am out of here. Cede all to China, I really don't care. What India holds today is what seems fair with respect to China. We never historically ever traversed the area of Aksai Chin and yet keep claiming it without logic, so I guess Pakistan has its own right to act equally stupid. So I could not be bothered.

 

[Burhan Wani]

Because soldiers are dying .. And yours more than ours .. You and us up there are fighting Mother Nature rather than eachother.

My father spend 2.5 years there in the early 90s. I know people including a Lt col who lost his legs after capturing a post and getting stranded there for days..

I know people who have lost their lives in Avalanches (Gayari sector).

Now if a former army man like yourself can't see the wisdom in a mutual pull out .. I don't think anybody else will.



Again you are towing the lines of the same idiot "bakhts" you yourself dislike.

Baltistan and Chinese brigades.. Really!

Balistan - Bunji is home to NLI... FCNA and Baltistan Scouts..

Do you know what the locals have been demanding since decades after they voluntarily ceded with Pak in November 1947 after fighting a war lead by local officers and soldiers against the Dogra and British ?

They want a provincial status... Even if today we hold a referendum we can legally make GB a province of Pak.., but unfortunately it was the short sightedness of our rulers who clubbed GB with the Kashmir issue to secure a fully positive result in when referendum is held.

They start Kashmir issue after accession of Azad Kashmir to Pakistan and we start Kashmir issue from 1830 first Poonch uprising.
Why local retired officers and soldiers stood against Maharaja of Kashmir because of his illegal occupation, human rights violation,property rights of Muslims, religious freedom at princely states Poonch, GB, Kishtvar and Kashmir because these were the majority Muslim population under illegal occupation since 1830.
India supported a occupier and aided a tyrant to maintain his illegal occupation in J&K, but when they saw them retreating they inserted their forces and became occupiers.
So we crushed Dogra dynasty and now we are against Indian occupation more tyrant and more powerful.
Don't waste your time with these zionists just keep calm and support Tehreek e Hurriat. Long live freedom.

 

[Kaniska]

@ranjeet Since when have Indians become so concerned with what Kashmiris want?

By the way, I also support JKLF, but I can't help but laugh at anxious Indians who are losing sleep over the plight of Kashmiris in AJK.

Who told we are concerned about AJK...Rather we are showing mirror to those people in Kashmir valley who thinks that being part of Pakistan will solve their miseries of life...Otherwise, who cares what happens to your Kashmir people...It is your people...and your responsibility to take care of them..

 

[danger007]

Militants and militant supporter must be cleansed...

 

[Joe Shearer]

Because soldiers are dying .. And yours more than ours .. You and us up there are fighting Mother Nature rather than eachother.

My father spend 2.5 years there in the early 90s. I know people including a Lt col who lost his legs after capturing a post and getting stranded there for days..

I know people who have lost their lives in Avalanches (Gayari sector).

Now if a former army man like yourself can't see the wisdom in a mutual pull out .. I don't think anybody else will.

There is nothing that I would like to see more than a mutual withdrawal.

Let me put to you something in cold terms. Pakistan has not kept a single treaty or agreement, and has not failed to actively foment an armed movement against us, in all parts of the country where this was possible, not in J&K particularly. Under these circumstances what do I say to those who tell me that the Pakistan Army will just stroll in the moment the agreement is implemented and both sides withdraw?

Again you are towing the lines of the same idiot "bakhts" you yourself dislike.

Baltistan and Chinese brigades.. Really!

Balistan - Bunji is home to NLI... FCNA and Baltistan Scouts..

Do you know what the locals have been demanding since decades after they voluntarily ceded with Pak in November 1947 after fighting a war lead by local officers and soldiers against the Dogra and British ?

They want a provincial status... Even if today we hold a referendum we can legally make GB a province of Pak.., but unfortunately it was the short sightedness of our rulers who clubbed GB with the Kashmir issue to secure a fully positive result in when referendum is held.

OK, OK, let's let this one pass.

https://www.facebook.com/aarti.tikoo/posts/10157156682135092

Every liberal supporting 'azadi', that is, Kashmir's secession from India, should spend at least one year in the valley, travel through the length and breadth of all the ethnically diverse regions of the entire state, talk to all the intimidated and scarred communities and read at least a dozen books on Kashmir history, before mouthing off his/her idiotic opinion. But I know it is a tall order because comments, like stones, are free and commentators are completely entitled to pelt them. So go on and please yourself. For those who have seen and known all of it, 'azadi' remains a communal fascistic totalitarian violent movement. I, as a secular liberal person, would never endorse it.

 

[Zibago]

@ranjeet Since when have Indians become so concerned with what Kashmiris want?

By the way, I also support JKLF, but I can't help but laugh at anxious Indians who are losing sleep over the plight of Kashmiris in AJK.

I hate the fuking jklf dungholes they are annoying

This board has well over dozen posters from Azad Kashmir, and it's also my ancestral land. Pakistan hasn't failed AKJ, its rulers have. They've also failed the rest of Pakistan as well. The people remain overwhelming Pro-Pakistan and the younger generation no longer differentiate themselves from their kin in the rest of Pakistan.
On a final point, this dispute will never end.

They think we are Punjabis

 

[I S I]

Usual Indian ra..di rona.

 

[danger007]

Usual Indian ra..di rona.

I can see that. Who is doing that...

 

[I S I]

I can see that. Who is doing that...

breeds of RSS

 

[danger007]

breeds of RSS

Oh lady, don't cry..