Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I like Turkish , mentality to extract all the garbage bugged avionics and systems and integrate Turkish 100% safe , unbugged work on F16 , I am suprised why we could not get a deal like Turkey to be able to Assemble our own F16 locally in factory

 

[Last Hope]

I like Turkish , mentality to extract all the garbage bugged avionics and systems and integrate Turkish 100% safe , unbugged work on F16 , I am suprised why we could not get a deal like Turkey to be able to Assemble our own F16 locally in factory

The Turkish may add their own computers in the F-16s, but Pakistan Aeronatical Complex checks the components for the bugs, and I am not wrong, I read on the forum that PAC Kamra has successfuly removed the Killer chips. I dont know more though.

 

[Donatello]

The Turkish may add their own computers in the F-16s, but Pakistan Aeronatical Complex checks the components for the bugs, and I am not wrong, I read on the forum that PAC Kamra has successfuly removed the Killer chips. I dont know more though.

Man......but i doubt if it was that easy......

 

[Last Hope]

Man......but i doubt if it was that easy......

I am sure about the components of earlier F-16s checked. We should ask fatman17 for the Block 52s.

 

[Chogy]

The following is addressed to those who think there are secret OFF codes to U.S. weapons... I've seen this conspiracy hundreds of tmes in various defense forums. And the F-16 is particularly prone to this ridiculous notion.

Given that American defense contractors are greedy - I've also heard this 1,000 times - and want to sell weapons,

What will happen to the U.S. Defense export market the first time a secret OFF code is actually used?

It would (of course) totally collapse. No one would ever again buy anything more complicated than a rifle from the USA. Therefore, what are the chances that such a system or device actually exists?

Further, if it DID exist, it would be known by a number of engineers and workers. How much would such knowledge be worth? If I, a Lockheed Martin worker, KNEW that there were OFF codes in an F-16, I could approach China, Egypt, Pakistan, and become an instant multi-millionaire by selling this secret, especially if I knew what the codes were. Imagine being able to negate an entire air fleet with a code!

This hasn't happened yet, for obvious reasons. There are no OFF codes in U.S. military hardware.

With that said, there are contractural issues that deal with sensitive technology. That is freely admitted. We have the right, and it is well within our interest, to limit access to sensitive technology. That doesn't mean the weapons won't work, nor does it mean that we can send some digital burst out into the ether and have F-16's fall from the sky. Please, can't we let go of this notion? It's like the fake moon landing conspiracy.

Thanks.

 

[VCheng]

There are no "off" codes, correct.

However, there are multiple published and buried pathways to selectively operate various components of the aircraft with varying degrees of accuracy, and those pathways are not visible or accessible to the end user.

That, Sir Chogy, is a FACT.

Your logic is too simplistic. No one would even know how and when those embedded functionalities are used.

 

[nightcrawler]

Chogy you are really hilarious, good post

F-16's fall from the sky.

 

[ziaulislam]

The following is addressed to those who think there are secret OFF codes to U.S. weapons... I've seen this conspiracy hundreds of tmes in various defense forums. And the F-16 is particularly prone to this ridiculous notion.

Given that American defense contractors are greedy - I've also heard this 1,000 times - and want to sell weapons,

What will happen to the U.S. Defense export market the first time a secret OFF code is actually used?

It would (of course) totally collapse. No one would ever again buy anything more complicated than a rifle from the USA. Therefore, what are the chances that such a system or device actually exists?

Further, if it DID exist, it would be known by a number of engineers and workers. How much would such knowledge be worth? If I, a Lockheed Martin worker, KNEW that there were OFF codes in an F-16, I could approach China, Egypt, Pakistan, and become an instant multi-millionaire by selling this secret, especially if I knew what the codes were. Imagine being able to negate an entire air fleet with a code!

This hasn't happened yet, for obvious reasons. There are no OFF codes in U.S. military hardware.

With that said, there are contractural issues that deal with sensitive technology. That is freely admitted. We have the right, and it is well within our interest, to limit access to sensitive technology. That doesn't mean the weapons won't work, nor does it mean that we can send some digital burst out into the ether and have F-16's fall from the sky. Please, can't we let go of this notion? It's like the fake moon landing conspiracy.

Thanks.

i agree to the fact that there are no codes..had that been a fact US would nt have been doing so much cautiousness on sales..it would have sold much equipment to countries that were apparent threat to national security of allies because it could easily use the codes

however having said that, for US military equipment, in case of war you wouldnt be able to acquire spare parts required andany long term war will eventually force you t ground high tec equipment, like we had to in our F-16s

 

[fatman17]

I am sure about the components of earlier F-16s checked. We should ask fatman17 for the Block 52s.

sir i dont believe in any of these kill-switch theories!

---------- Post added at 09:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 AM ----------

Pakistan has used its US supplied weapons against the indians, soviets and afghans without any problems. all the US could do then and now is put 'sanctions' on us for doing so. why sanction us if these so called kill-switches were there.

 

[gambit]

There are no "off" codes, correct.

However, there are multiple published and buried pathways to selectively operate various components of the aircraft with varying degrees of accuracy, and those pathways are not visible or accessible to the end user.

That, Sir Chogy, is a FACT.

Your logic is too simplistic. No one would even know how and when those embedded functionalities are used.

Then you should have no problems providing the readers with a couple of credible sources to this 'fact'.

 

[Last Hope]

Alright everyone, the kill switch part, removed from my memory.

Now the CISMOA. Or the 'terms of use'. We all know the Turkish Air Force has induced their own built computers for their F-16s. Is it legal for them to do that? Why didn't the US do anything about it?

Or are they registered for this job, looking at T-A-I modifying the F-16s??

Sorry. Haven't got any knowledge on it

 

[VCheng]

Then you should have no problems providing the readers with a couple of credible sources to this 'fact'.

LOL! If only it were that easy!

Only those who have no idea just how complex the software that runs the F-16 would say that.

I have no problem if I am not believed in this matter.

Over and Out!

 

[gambit]

LOL! If only it were that easy!

Only those who have no idea just how complex the software that runs the F-16 would say that.

I have no problem if I am not believed in this matter.

Over and Out!

I do have that idea. Looky here, you are doing the typical 'appeal to ignorance' argument where all you can do is make innuendos and leave it up to the gullibles' imagination, not logical thought process, to draw their own conclusions.

 

[VCheng]

I do have that idea. Looky here, you are doing the typical 'appeal to ignorance' argument where all you can do is make innuendos and leave it up to the gullibles' imagination, not logical thought process, to draw their own conclusions.

The details of that software are not suitable for discussion in a forum such as this.

I am not making any innuendos: I am clearly stating that the software control has within it embedded pathways to selectively control operation and interoperability of numerous modules in a way that is not accessible to the end user. These pathways can be manipulated and controlled in several ways, and such operation is not detectable either.

All of this is by design.

 

[Chogy]

^^ Given human nature, wouldn't those who know about these "embedded pathways" sell the knowledge for perhaps hundreds of millions of $$? People are greedy. There are always spies and sell-outs.

Lockheed-Martin exports billion$ of $$ worth of weapons. Would they risk it all by doing such a thing? Furthermore, and this is important, consider the spare parts, the logistics.

If Exported F-16's have kill switches or exploitable LRU's, then LM would have to maintain separate parts supplies for each nation they export these jets to. You wouldn't want to introduce a kill switch into a U.S. jet, right? So you'd have differing bus components and black boxes. Is the data-bus module 23-A-GM8762 destined for Pakistan different from the U.S. part?

The whole notion is overly complex and untenable. Like a 9-11 conspiracy, there'd be too many people "in on it" to make it work. But I can understand the allure of the conspiracy. If people believe HAARP makes earthquakes (I'm not saying you do, VCheng), then this is extremely easy to believe in. Because people WANT to believe in it.

And besides, who is to say that Russian hardware is devoid of such systems? The amount of evidence for it is identical to that for U.S. warplanes. Russia is paranoid, that is undeniable. Are the Russians doing it? How about the Chinese? No, the accusation is only against the U.S., because that is the sport du jour.