Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[ziaulislam]

we never negotiated good enough
had just mushi asked one thing
whts in it for me
i m giving u a gooddaam country on a plate for fuk sake take off all debt give us 10 billion a year 5/5 military civilian
americans we’re ready to go any leagnth for us. but we fuuked up big time
capitulated right at the first time
had we had a guy with a little bit more balls to get the initial american pressure
and the bogey about indians stepping in
that was beyond funny but mushi pissed his pants
got wht americans gave him happily

A rumour of delayed IMF rupee went to 150 and everyone was panicking...
Its easy to you to say but pakistan was at defualt in 2018..a bailout of 25+ billion dollars saved it and that was mostly due to uncle sam allowing its arab friends,IMF,WB,AB pumping all that money....
Same was true in 2001..we were at near recession with worst growth after 1998 because of defualt we had in 1998..
Same will happen again in 2028 when bilawal and 2033 when marium nawaz will be leaving office after her 5 years

 

[mingle]

A rumour of delayed IMF rupee went to 150 and everyone was panicking...
Its easy to you to say but pakistan was at defualt in 2018..a bailout of 25+ billion dollars saved it and that was mostly due to uncle sam allowing its arab friends,IMF,WB,AB pumping all that money....
Same was true in 2001..we were at near recession with worst growth after 1998 because of defualt we had in 1998..
Same will happen again in 2028 when bilawal and 2033 when marium nawaz will be leaving office after her 5 years

Bilawal and Maryam Nawaz not gonna happen my friend stop dreaming it's PTI all the way Zardari & Co has no chance along miss Calibre. 23-28 it's IK then another Guy from PTI 28-33 most probably Asad umer. Era to get into power through Washington by wheeling and dealing is gone.

 

[Safriz]

The trump card isnt the peace agreement but the aftermath...maintianing the peace...second we needed IMF we used that trump card for IMF deal ..

We had a big problem getting f16s even after 9/11 and it was all of sudden in 2005 that it happened..despite it being no.1 on agenda during musharraf era..i believe it happened when PAF started to negotiate gripen deal...and was eyeing at rafales...USA squashed that deal and offered f16s instead

This video clip where he forced the f16

After 3 min...

I remeber cabinent giving approval for negotiations for aircarft from sweden (gripen). It was on PTV news...

Musharraf's Armed forces development program 2025 was the best capacity building program in the history of Pakistan.

 

[ziaulislam]

Bilawal and Maryam Nawaz not gonna happen my friend stop dreaming it's PTI all the way Zardari & Co has no chance along miss Calibre. 23-28 it's IK then another Guy from PTI 28-33 most probably Asad umer. Era to get into power through Washington by wheeling and dealing is gone.

I thought the same in 2007 and than it happened both enjoy overwhelming support in pakistan...but this isnt the thread to discuss it...

Point is next 6 months are crucial..trump is getting desperate and pakistan may have a chnace to play its hand..trumo ratings are dropping and he needs something grand...he used up all his popular cards already...i think his last card is full usa with draw without collapse of afghan govt(a settlement deal)...he will entice pakistan with something a military package i suspect

 

[mingle]

I thought the same in 2007 and than it happened both enjoy overwhelming support in pakistan...but this isnt the thread to discuss it...

2007 whole pak knows how PPP got into power plus BB murder sympathy this time what's new you think last by election happened sargodha PPP got 90 votes among 200k. For PTI Corona is blessing is disguise they defer payments to IMF and G20 for two budgets it's about 24 billion $, low oil prices, extra 1.4 billion from IMF may get more on second review yes WB and ADB don't discard them.sugar mafia and Ata Mafia under control IPP will get renegotiate Stage is set for PTI for PPP they stuck in fake accounts case along Bilawal and N sharif are out along Maryam got conviction.US and EU wants deal with Talibans they got it why they bother IK and PTI they found a right guy a right place who actually delivered them not like previous Govts putting blame on Army.Even Joe Biden wins in DC he has no problem with IK he knows him very well will work along no issue at all.

 

[ali_raza]

A rumour of delayed IMF rupee went to 150 and everyone was panicking...
Its easy to you to say but pakistan was at defualt in 2018..a bailout of 25+ billion dollars saved it and that was mostly due to uncle sam allowing its arab friends,IMF,WB,AB pumping all that money....
Same was true in 2001..we were at near recession with worst growth after 1998 because of defualt we had in 1998..
Same will happen again in 2028 when bilawal and 2033 when marium nawaz will be leaving office after her 5 years

things weren’t nearly as bad in 2001 we had healthy or somewhere good current account
economy was tiny and manageable

 

[Trango Towers]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...hold on.

I didn't even bring up the JSF.

You wanna point fingers, ask the other guy.

I started the conversation with the possibility of USED-F-16's - (first post on top)

Another Member shifted the matter...JSF.

Sheesh...

Calm down.. why are you jumping on hot coals..

I think the point is the same...f16 or F35...both are sanction laden peices of crap. Remember feb 27 PAF had to try to explain why f16 could nit be used offensively.
My point is although f16 and F35 are excellent they are a handicap for us and hence why would we want them. It wasnt to point finger at you. So my dear brother..big hug and have a nice day

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Hi,

It could have been made simple thru initial negotiations right at the begining---.

If thing had not gone well---pakistan should have put sanctions on the supply line under pressure from pakistani public---.

yah sure so easy.
the only problem was. Pakistan was/is a third world country while USA is super power specially during its prime time 1990s 2000s.

 

[araz]

That theory & sh!t list should have been amended before we went into brokering the Afghan Peace Deal.

That was our (only) trump card which we outta have played before getting our feet wet.

And i'm not just talking about just F-16's but in terms of Hercs & Helicopters. Yeah sure everyone here has a solution for F-16's is Block III. But what're we supposed to do 'bout the rest. Who do we approach?

I did think along those lines. Someone should ha e gone in and asked what is in it for me? I suspect the answer was help with FATF some reserve loans from Saudi and UAE and smoothing out things with WB.
I suspect although I cannot verify with certainty that with the acquisition of arms the question would have been politely put down by saying first sort this mess out and we promise to help you out.
Pakistan was in a bit of a pickle. On the verge of defaulting and increasing pressures internally to stabilize the country and restore peace so the country can move forward. I also suspect that when you talk of arms there are counter wishes like neutering the Nuke programmes, halting the JFT production/development etc. How practical is that to do? Secondly one can always play the Congress card and say we will do that but the Congress will not approve.
I suspect Pakistani contingent thought that it might be better to avail the financial package on the table rather than push for that which will not be granted. In many ways we have been harping on about the necessity of the Afghan peace accord for regional stability. It does not behove well to have a mess in that area and the US might well have moved out irrespective of whether we helped out or not.
So in short a lot of imponderables and unknown facts to make a logical conclusion.
A

 

[Trailer23]

Calm down.. why are you jumping on hot coals.

Well, in my defense I thought i'd make it crystal clear that I never brought up the F-35. It doesn't take long for people on PDF to start pointing fingers without knowing the actual source.

That being said, Mods keep reminding stay on the Topic. This topic would be dead & locked if we didn't consider options every opportunity we get. On the flip side, its a great place to keep uploading images of the F-16 which has been going on forever.

Now, everyday the situation changes. We may be closer to acquiring something today, and it may change tomorrow depending on the region.

The way I see it: we can't even get used F-16's or new Hercs, or new Hulu. We can't afford other Western equipment [and US would block such a deal]. We've rejected everything from China or can't get. I'll be pushing 65+ by the time AZM becomes a reality.

Our Economy is MashahAllah and funny thing, i've been hearing that old tape even when I owned a walkman.

And speaking of Economy, lets see how many Block III's we can afford.

 

[Blacklight]

Well, in my defense I thought i'd make it crystal clear that I never brought up the F-35. It doesn't take long for people on PDF to start pointing fingers without knowing the actual source.

That being said, Mods keep reminding stay on the Topic. This topic would be dead & locked if we didn't consider options every opportunity we get. On the flip side, its a great place to keep uploading images of the F-16 which has been going on forever.

Now, everyday the situation changes. We may be closer to acquiring something today, and it may change tomorrow depending on the region.

The way I see it: we can't even get used F-16's or new Hercs, or new Hulu. We can't afford other Western equipment [and US would block such a deal]. We've rejected everything from China or can't get. I'll be pushing 65+ by the time AZM becomes a reality.

Our Economy is MashahAllah and funny thing, i've been hearing that old tape even when I owned a walkman.

And speaking of Economy, lets see how many Block III's we can afford.

Mayoosi Kuffar hai

 

[araz]

Since we are on the topic from Post #12680
@Knuckles @Adam_Khan @araz

On the Topic: New fighter for PAF Doctrine? (page 57 and 59)

Three very knowledgeable Members, such as yourselves have clearly stated that those F-16's in the boneyard in Arizona are not available to Pakistan.



Not to stir up a fight, but seems like a pretty All-Star cast of PDF.

I already got my answer from the Big-3. So, let me rephrase the Question on this Topic...

Q. Could the PAF pursue the used F-16's (Block 32/42)?

Note: Noting that no official word if we have attempted to purse them.

- Kinda like a 3-on-3 contest -​

What are you trying to get at? If you are in possesion of information to the contrary bring it into the open and we can discuss it. Look, we all utilize publically available sources to make an educated guesses. At least I dont have any inside knowledge of PAF's working and acquisition strategy. When we make a guess, we can be wrong or right. Only time will tell. @Khafee may well have been right but broke the news too soon. In international negotiations a lot can happen between exxpression of interest to signing of Contract. One thing is for sure, even if Trump approves 16s from the Boneyards, they would need upgrade kits and that is where Congress would have to approve the request. What happens in the future remains unknown to all of us, but currently there is no indication that PAF will get their hands on more F16s.
A

 

[Trailer23]

@araz
Relax man. I was merely bringing insight from other members on a discussion that was going on this Topic. They too had made it clear that Boneyard F-16's weren't possible. I just thought i'd be fair if others shared the same narrative.

We all get it - we have as much of a chance getting those jets as Pakistan winning another World Cup (cricket).

 

[araz]

@araz
Relax man. I was merely bringing insight from other members on a discussion that was going on this Topic. They too had made it clear that Boneyard F-16's weren't possible. I just thought i'd be fair if others shared the same narrative.

We all get it - we have as much of a chance getting those jets as Pakistan winning another World Cup (cricket).

Yaar
When you get to my age, we all relax in all the wrong places.HAAHAAA. Needless to say 16s are an extension Of US policy towards Paklands. If it is happy it might hang some out to entice us. We have learnt this game well and with JFT Block 3 round the corner, we dont bite that often either. As to buying the new ones. US will surely not release our CSF and we will not spend our own sovereign funds to get them. So unless an angel with a fat check book steps in it seems unlikely. Older models are more feasible financially.
A

 

[shaded]

Can I safely assume that the F 16 is un-flyable were it not for the fly by wire system due to its aerodynamic instability?