Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Raider 21]

Hi,

You maybe not familiar as to what I have written on this forum for over a decade and a half about this aircraft and what my reasons were---.

From day one I was the proponent of a 25% larger JF17 and from day 1---I cared less if the engine was NOT powerful enough---because I knew that the coming war depended on the BVR platform and the EW package that the aircraft carried---.

9 and 10 g's performance was just for the air shows and the thrust ratio more than 1:1 was just to satisfy the ego---.

One of the greatest fighter aircraft the F14 had a lower thrust ratio to weight percentage but it was a monster when it came to air combat---.

The art of air combat is to fight the enemy from your position of strength---and that is where the Paf excelled in with the F86 Sabre and it was successful more time against the Gnat.

Close to 1:1 T/W ratio definitely helps yet mandatory (but no A-5s nonsense). 7.5Gs is enough or I'd say optimum, no 9Gs is not for airshows only as evidenced by a PAF Viper pilot that got 2 kills in the mid 80s. 25% would definitely be a great advantage particularly for the wing area. Intakes could definitely use a big change

I think the F-14A had a lot of issues that led to newer versions being developed for the Tomcat to improve the T/W ratio. The A version had engine stalls happen occasionally.

 

[Nomad40]

Hi,

Your assumption is incorrect---. I have always favored a 25% larger JF17---. This current form is too small---.

The problem with you kids is that you have no exposure to what has happened in the world of engineering in the past---. Then you ask for LINK---when you don't put any effort into learning the answer---you guys don't remember and don't give a sh-it about the answer---.

Do you know a country named JAPAN---. It outright rejected the F16---they built an F2---25% larger than the F16 for a certain reason---now why don't you go and find that reason---.




Hi,

The idea behind the size of the JF17 became obsolete right after it went into production---because the Paf had not done its homework right---.

The realized too late that BVR was the game in the town and across of the border---.

The Paf is singing the tune of BVR since the last 2 - 3 years---I talked about it on this forum 15 years ago---and other pak forums for about 20 plus years---.

There were fights happening with every other member who was convinced about the merge---. Not a single one of those members came to me and apologized and mentioned that I was right from the gitgo---.

After the JF17 got rejected for the key EW package by the french----they Paf had to go the chinese way---.

The chinese equipment is less expensive but bulkier---heavier---10-20-30% at times---that takes more room.

The goal post has also shifted for the Paf after facing the truth---now we should be looking at how to mount between 4 to 6 BVR's---or mount 2 CM400 AKG's on the wings---. The current model does not provide that facility to carry 2 heavy AShM's on each wing---like the purpoted F2---. Current size dictates that the CM400 mounting & launch manages aircraft stability when carried under the center line hard point---.

Prior to this was small sleek sharp resolute---a Gnat---fly low---hide amongst the rocks mindset---.

As for the aerodynamics---the design has already been established---. What performance you need from the aircraft other than carry more BVR's & off bore sight SR missiles---launch and get out---or carry 2 heavy AShM's---.

The Gripen Ng is a good example of the change---.

Okay @MastanKhan

 

[MastanKhan]

Close to 1:1 T/W ratio definitely helps yet mandatory (but no A-5s nonsense). 7.5Gs is enough or I'd say optimum, no 9Gs is not for airshows only as evidenced by a PAF Viper pilot that got 2 kills in the mid 80s. 25% would definitely be a great advantage particularly for the wing area. Intakes could definitely use a big change

I think the F-14A had a lot of issues that led to newer versions being developed for the Tomcat to improve the T/W ratio. The A version had engine stalls happen occasionally.

Hi,

I am not saying that more powerful engine is not good---what I am saying is that a less powerful power plant is not bad either---.

In modern day combat---there are too many a probabilities involved and the sum of those leads to playing from a position of strength---.

It all comes down to a well planned---well programmed---well trained machine and a well executed plan---.

There has been a lot of thought put into this JF17 package by the builders---and based on that---and based on its own merits---the size of the JF17 and what it offers is a great success story in itself---.

A 25% larger JF17 would take the aircraft to a different plateau just like the F/A-18 to F/A 18 Hornet---.

Hopefully that would be the BLK 4---.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Who doesn’t wish for such what you want, 25% larger proportional aircraft.

Wouldn’t that be too Perfect for PAF? That should have been the path since start. Kia bol sakte hain ab. Light weight light weight, sab dil behlana hai.

In the age of BVR, be a BVR truck.

Medium weight are the perfect fighters in my book, They are better maneuverable if and when needed, as compared to heavies, usually have a good strong engine, Can carry the perfect payload package.

No need for a damn BVR truck, your losing at least 5 BVR missiles each time one of yours crashes. It is all about protecting your AWACS aircraft, and using PL-15 against those giant *** targets will be easy as f*ck and allow PAF to absolutely ravage IAF aircraft.

Even Su-30MKIs the mighty "mini awacs" will be like a former professional boxer turned blind trying to box a gang with knives.

 

[Nomad40]

and be ready to being insulted/abused by @MastanKhan

Although he is pretty nice to me but I must say one thing


Buht ghuma pira kar bat karta hai @MastanKhan


He Certainly does keep the cameras rolling for us.

 

[Bossman]

Hi,

You maybe not familiar as to what I have written on this forum for over a decade and a half about this aircraft and what my reasons were---.

From day one I was the proponent of a 25% larger JF17 and from day 1---I cared less if the engine was NOT powerful enough---because I knew that the coming war depended on the BVR platform and the EW package that the aircraft carried---.

9 and 10 g's performance was just for the air shows and the thrust ratio more than 1:1 was just to satisfy the ego---.

One of the greatest fighter aircraft the F14 had a lower thrust ratio to weight percentage but it was a monster when it came to air combat---.

The art of air combat is to fight the enemy from your position of strength---and that is where the Paf excelled in with the F86 Sabre and it was successful more time against the Gnat.

Don’t lie, from day one you were anti Jf17. For years you opposed the JF17. You wanted PAF to buy Mirage 2000. You are so dumb that you most probably don’t even remember it. You are just a total fake and a liar with no knowledge of the topics you pretend to be a expert on and those who fall for you on this forum are nothing but a bunch of idiots.

 

[Nomad40]

Hi,

I am not saying that more powerful engine is not good---what I am saying is that a less powerful power plant is not bad either---.

In modern day combat---there are too many a probabilities involved and the sum of those leads to playing from a position of power---.

It all comes down to a well planned---well programmed---well trained machine and a well executed plan---.

There has been a lot of thought put into this JF17 package by the builders---and based on that---and based on its own merits---the size of the JF17 and what it offers is a great success story in itself---.

A 25% larger JF17 would take the aircraft to a different just like the F/A-18 to F/A 18 Hornet---.

Hopefully that would be the BLK 4---.

But @MastanKhan If jf-17 is a well executed plan than what are your premise to your argument about a larger jf-17 sir.


Iam puzzled.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Although he is pretty nice to me but I must say one thing


Buht ghuma pira kar bat karta hai @MastanKhan


He Certainly does keep the cameras rolling for us.

@MastanKhan always criticize senselessly without knowing the situation, he telling that we should increase JF-17 for 25% and @MastanKhan gave the example of Japanese F-2 which was fully develop/industrialized nation and back by USA, so we have no mature vast aviation industry like India have lets forget about Japan and @MastanKhan comparing to unrelated projects, We are following footsteps of JAS-39 GRIPEN development for our JF-17 upgrades rather than F-16 development

 

[Nomad40]

@MastanKhan always criticize senselessly without knowing the situation, he telling that we should increase JF-17 for 25% and @MastanKhan gave the example of Japanese F-2 which was fully develop/industrialized nation and back by USA, so we have no mature vast aviation industry like India have lets forget about Japan and @MastanKhan comparing to unrelated projects, We are following footsteps of JAS-39 GRIPEN development for our JF-17 upgrades rather than F-16 development

South Africans can prove to be a strategic and influential Partner in the JF-17 and/or AZM.

Chinese are good but they might have divided attention------you know bigger fish to fry.

 

[MastanKhan]

Don’t lie, from day one you were anti Jf17. For years you opposed the JF17. You wanted PAF to buy Mirage 2000. You are so dumb that you most probably don’t even remember it. You are just a total fake and a liar with no knowledge of the topics you pretend to be a expert on and those who fall for you on this forum are nothing but a bunch of idiots.

Hi,

Okay---thank you for your input---. I don't have a problem with that---. You have a right to have your opinion---.

Mirage2K is just an aircraft that we could get without much conditions---. So what is the issue with that---.

 

[Bossman]

Hi,

Okay---thank you for your input---. I don't have a problem with that---. You have a right to have your opinion---.

Mirage2K is just an aircraft that we could get without much conditions---. So what is the issue with that---.

The issue is that you are a liar and a fake!

 

[airomerix]

Late 90's: F-16B #606 | Flanker killer

Early 2000s - F-16A #727 #728 | Griffins

On 22nd July 2014, F-16BM (Serial #82602) Flown by the then OC 9 squadron, Wg Cmdr Azman Khali and Sqn Ldr Asim, took off at 2000 hrs from Sargodha.

Reached target area over South Waziristan as part of Operation Zarb-e-Azab. The aircraft was equipped with 2 x 500lb JDAMs. As the LGB was released, it exploded prematurely thus damaging the aircraft. As aircraft fell down like a brick, Azman Khalil took control from S/L Asim and recovered the aircraft from a flat spin.

It was realized that the aircraft will not make it back to Sargodha due to fuel and hydraulic pipes leaking, PAF Base Mianwali was put on alert and the aircraft touches down. The aircraft was unable to stop since the throttle was not responding. The aircraft takes off again. Pilot asks ATC to install safety nets at the end fo the runway The aircraft makes the second attempt and stops by hitting the net at the end of the runway. The aircraft engine was switched off from outside by the aircrew.

The aircraft was later repaired at PAC Kamra ARF facility and returned to service within a year's time.

F-16D Block 52 | Falcons

 

[Raider 21]

Late 90's: F-16B #606 | Flanker killer

View attachment 622302


Early 2000s - F-16A #727 #728 | Griffins
View attachment 622303





On 22nd July 2014, F-16BM (Serial #82602) Flown by the then OC 9 squadron, Wg Cmdr Azman Khali and Sqn Ldr Asim, took off at 2000 hrs from Sargodha.

Reached target area over South Waziristan as part of Operation Zarb-e-Azab. The aircraft was equipped with 2 x 500lb JDAMs. As the LGB was released, it exploded prematurely thus damaging the aircraft. As aircraft fell down like a brick, Azman Khalil took control from S/L Asim and recovered the aircraft from a flat spin.

It was realized that the aircraft will not make it back to Sargodha due to fuel and hydraulic pipes leaking, PAF Base Chakala was put on alert and the aircraft touches down. The aircraft was unable to stop since the throttle was not responding. The aircraft takes off again. Pilot asks ATC to install safety nets at the end fo the runway The aircraft makes the second attempt and stops by hitting the net at the end of the runway. The aircraft engine was switched off from outside by the aircrew.

The aircraft was later repaired at PAC Kamra ARF facility and returned to service within a year's time.

View attachment 622304

F-16D Block 52 | Falcons

View attachment 622305

Great post. Serial 602 was known for issues with its air conditioning system. I am sure they have fixed that part too. Bad flight memories for those who would ferry that B tub to Masroor for x-country and exercises.

A Viper in a flat spin seems puzzling

 

[Cookie Monster]

Great post. Serial 602 was known for issues with its air conditioning system. I am sure they have fixed that part too. Bad flight memories for those who would ferry that B tub to Masroor for x-country and exercises.

A Viper in a flat spin seems puzzling

I remember reading this in the news when this F16 was fixed in house...does Pak have such capability? As in producing F16 parts(needed for the repairs)...
...or was that just a one off allowed by US and done in house with imported parts?

 

[MastanKhan]

The issue is that you are a liar and a fake!

Hi,

If that is what your position is---then that is your position---. I ain't arguing with you about it---.