Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Windjammer]

View attachment 597197Nothing can match the beauty of the viper.

I believe this is one of those F-16s that PAF acquired from Jordan as these aircraft have some distinctive writing or pattern on the bay door of the front landing gear.... and then we had some folks arguing that our Jordanian aircraft didn't have the BVR capability.

 

[Viper27]

I believe this is one of those F-16s that PAF acquired from Jordan as these aircraft have some distinctive writing or pattern on the bay door of the front landing gear.... and then we had some folks arguing that our Jordanian aircraft didn't have the BVR capability.

Surprised that people assume Jordanian Vipers are not BVR capable. It’s no secret that the batch of Jordanian F-16s we have were initially Air National Guard units & were designed specifically for long range air to air missions with the ability to carry 6 AMRAAMs

 

[Haris Ali2140]

F-16V
View attachment 597999

Force these to land at a PAF base.

 

[Talon]

I believe this is one of those F-16s that PAF acquired from Jordan as these aircraft have some distinctive writing or pattern on the bay door of the front landing gear.... and then we had some folks arguing that our Jordanian aircraft didn't have the BVR capability.

Nope its an F-16 AM assigned to Arrows and the writing says "Top Guns"

 

[Windjammer]

Nope its an F-16 AM assigned to Arrows and the writing says "Top Guns"

Oh well, but as you can see No 19 Birds also have something on the bay door.

 

[FuturePAF]

There are nominal alternatives, yes, but the PAF has already flown the Y-8 (KE/ZDK03) and clearly didn't pursue it any further as of yet. It's not just China though. There are 'options' all over the place, from the Embraer C-390 to Ukraine's stuff, but time and time again I hear, "only a Herc can replace a Herc." It's like HMD/S -- there's this one company that did such an excellent job with a design, that design is the preferred option.

I'm against US arms, but there are 2 exceptions I'd make: the Herc and the Chinook.

You just won't get the bang for the buck, flexibility, and worldwide support in any other platform. If not for the US' reluctance, the F-16 and S-70 would be in the list too.

How about a large sale (using CSF) of a few thousand MRAPs and associated COIN equipment for the KPK And Baluchistan Frontier Corps? It builds up Pakistan’s ability to police its western borders, and that’s win win for Pakistan and the West.

Under that narrative, logistical support equipment like C-130s, and even helicopters like the Chinook will clearly not look like they will effect the Indo-Pak equation. Used F-16s also can fit into this nicely, as they will be geared towards COIN-PGM capabilities. Except of Pakistan try’s to seek used F-16s it should go for the maximum number of airframes, so that it can cannibalize them in the event of a shut off of spares. These F-16s flying with AESA equipped JF-17s maybe a way to maximize the numbers and capabilities within t limited amount of CSF funds, and not rock the boat by buying Aesa equipped Block 72s. In the future if the relations between nations shift, the PAF could try to upgrade the F-16s with our own homemade AESA radars and missiles, doing what the Turks did for their F-16s; their own radars and their own BVR and WVR missiles. It’s a better long term strategy the. Hoping the US approves the V upgrade.

should the Indians fail to go for the Block 72/F-21, And if Pakistan can get the approval for a lot of used F-16s it should also try to get some overhaul facilities or spare parts production build for the F-16 in Pakistan, even if that needs to be paid for with local funds.

Pakistan should try to convince the US should that agreeing to allowing the transfer it will signal long term US-Pakistan partnership. This might be a hard task, but worth the try. Part of mending relations between the two countries.

 

[Talon]

Oh well, but as you can see No 19 Birds also have something on the bay door.

View attachment 598068

Only on this particular jet and these are names of ground crew to honour them on a static display.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

How about a large sale (using CSF) of a few thousand MRAPs and associated COIN equipment for the KPK And Baluchistan Frontier Corps? It builds up Pakistan’s ability to police its western borders, and that’s win win for Pakistan and the West.

Under that narrative, logistical support equipment like C-130s, and even helicopters like the Chinook will clearly not look like they will effect the Indo-Pak equation. Used F-16s also can fit into this nicely, as they will be geared towards COIN-PGM capabilities. Except of Pakistan try’s to seek used F-16s it should go for the maximum number of airframes, so that it can cannibalize them in the event of a shut off of spares. These F-16s flying with AESA equipped JF-17s maybe a way to maximize the numbers and capabilities within t limited amount of CSF funds, and not rock the boat by buying Aesa equipped Block 72s. In the future if the relations between nations shift, the PAF could try to upgrade the F-16s with our own homemade AESA radars and missiles, doing what the Turks did for their F-16s; their own radars and their own BVR and WVR missiles. It’s a better long term strategy the. Hoping the US approves the V upgrade.

You need US approval to even tighten a screw and you are talking about upgrading them to BLK 70/72 standard.

 

[FuturePAF]

You need US approval to even tighten a screw and you are talking about upgrading them to BLK 70/72 standard.

They might not agree to it now, but things can change. Also, it might not be upgrading them with a US AESA radar, but a Pakistan made Aesa radar.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

They might not agree to it now, but things can change. Also, it might not be upgrading them with a US AESA radar, but a Pakistan made Aesa radar.

Turkey has still not gotten permission to install their AESA radars.
@MMM-E

 

[FuturePAF]

Turkey has still not gotten permission to install their AESA radars.
@MMM-E

That’s fine for now, but a long term upgrade option would be a local AESA if allowed, otherwise just use these planes as air frames to replace older aircraft, particularly the mirages for the strike role.

In the event the PAF is not allowed to upgrade them, even simple used F-16C/D with low flight hours should be better than continuing to fly the F-7PG and Mirages. The Used F-16s should be seen as just launch platforms and the Block 3 JF-17 as the leaders with their AESA radars and EW equipment.

The psychological effect on the Indians of 3,4,5 more squadrons of F-16s, even if just Used F-16C put through a structural life extension overhaul will make them weary of engaging the PAF. 3 squadrons of F-16s held back the IAF for the better part of three decades, another 40-60 used jets will cause them to cry to the world for at least another decade, if not more.

all this at minimal cost to the PAF. It all comes down to diplomacy.

 

[Windjammer]

Only on this particular jet and these are names of ground crew to honour them on a static display.

Sir, there are more than one displaying the same.

 

[mingle]

That’s fine for now, but a long term upgrade option would be a local AESA if allowed, otherwise just use these planes as air frames to replace older aircraft, particularly the mirages for the strike role.

In the event the PAF is not allowed to upgrade them, even simple used F-16C/D with low flight hours should be better than continuing to fly the F-7PG and Mirages. The Used F-16s should be seen as just launch platforms and the Block 3 JF-17 as the leaders with their AESA radars and EW equipment.

The psychological effect on the Indians of 3,4,5 more squadrons of F-16s, even if just Used F-16C put through a structural life extension overhaul will make them weary of engaging the PAF. 3 squadrons of F-16s held back the IAF for the better part of three decades, another 40-60 used jets will cause them to cry to the world for at least another decade, if not more.

all this at minimal cost to the PAF. It all comes down to diplomacy.

F35 imagine her impact on dhotis

 

[MIRauf]

POTUS won't sell Used F-16s unless PAF buys new one ( if new F-16 get approval. )

 

[Adam_Khan]

I believe this is one of those F-16s that PAF acquired from Jordan as these aircraft have some distinctive writing or pattern on the bay door of the front landing gear.... and then we had some folks arguing that our Jordanian aircraft didn't have the BVR capability.

Windy it's an F.16AM from 11 squadron.