Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[raazh]

Hi,

That is the first thing they teach in the u s military---that Pride is a killer and the same thing that they teach in the sales----pride kills a sale.

There is no problem with chosing the F16's after 9/11---the problem is with thew timing----. Pakistan should have had at least a minimum on one sqdrn of F16's after they signed the agreement to support them in war---and another two sqdrn's within a year----.

Pakistan had the u s by the ball joints in the first 5 years of the wot. Buddy---you guys don't even know how to talk to white people. You guys can't even have a general conversation with the whiteys----you have no clue in how to negotiate---.

As for buying M2k----india would not have had the same strike capability through the late 80's---90's----2000 and till now---. Indian M2k is the back bone of iaf.

Pakistan would not have felt impotent in the 90's----as for end of line for mirage----pakistan would have gone for the rafale---but then mirage 2005---07 and 09 upgraqdes would have been sufficient. French radars and air to air missiles.

This incompetent air force did not even have a singe aircraft to face the iaf at kargil. This air force let its most valuable assets be destroyed by the terrorists----while all of the world knew about the oncoming terrorist attacks on the air force bases---the only ones who did not know about it were the pak air force.

As for aircraft not in production now----have you heard about this aircraft known as Saab 2000.

I wonder why IAF didnt wipe us out in Kargil, Mumbai and Parliment attack ??? how many more excuses they would need ?? If they have super doper unbeatable aircraft, then why did they refrain to atleast bomb few targets into our territory?? Pride is a killer and fear is the thought of admitted inferiority.

@ejaz yes PAF did learn a lesson after the F16 sanctions. However we have decades of experience on the F16's and it makes more sense to add more New/Refurbished F16's instead of buying an all new sanctioned proned plane who's training, infrastructure development will alone take another decade to start going.

All in all bahi, Pakistan as a country must not prioritize on investing $10-15Billion on such Machines. We must first work on our education, economy and other impt matters. Our enemy is right next door, we dont need aircraft carriers, F22's etc etc .. JF17 and other Chinese planes will be a good deterrence for IAF. Yes, its not the best at the moment, but we have other MORE important areas to invest in.

Whether we know how to talk to a white guy or not .. I think this discussion will not remain civil so lets not go there. What I do know is that you have dedicated your Life for the betterment of USA, and have given them all your tax dollars to wage wars around the world including Pakistan. They have killed countless innocent people with your Tax Dollars .. and you tell us that we dont know how to talk to white ppl.

 

[Bossman]

I must say this forum attracts some real characters. The veteran Mr. Mastan, the second hand car sales man from California, the expert on every thing military specially the air force and who looks down on every one else. He spent years on the this forum propagating against the JF17 and I think he was also a great fan of the Grippin and now it is the M2K. The thing he doesn't know is that the PAF M2K deal was tainted from the start, the price was very inflated and the only person who would have benefited from the deal was Zardari. He also doesn't know that the only reason IAF purchased M2Ks was to counter PAF's F16 and the ongoing upgrade of the M2K is more expensive than the original price of the planes but also more than equivalent brand new contemporary planes like the F16. The only one laughing all the way to the Bank are the French. As far as Kargil is concerned Indians lost 3 jets and 1 helicopter and PAF none. IAF, despite the superiority, never dared to cross the border, not during Kargil or after the parliament attack or after the Mumbai attack - I wonder why. And then we have characters like Nishan 101 who thinks that buying military equipment is like buying sabzi or fruit i.e. must be done in the dozens. He is either 9 years old or has serious learning disabilities. Guys like them do provide some comedic relief on the forum but they can also be very embarrassing.

 

[ejaz007]

I wonder why IAF didnt wipe us out in Kargil, Mumbai and Parliment attack ??? how many more excuses they would need ?? If they have super doper unbeatable aircraft, then why did they refrain to atleast bomb few targets into our territory?? Pride is a killer and fear is the thought of admitted inferiority.

@ejaz yes PAF did learn a lesson after the F16 sanctions. However we have decades of experience on the F16's and it makes more sense to add more New/Refurbished F16's instead of buying an all new sanctioned proned plane who's training, infrastructure development will alone take another decade to start going.

All in all bahi, Pakistan as a country must not prioritize on investing $10-15Billion on such Machines. We must first work on our education, economy and other impt matters. Our enemy is right next door, we dont need aircraft carriers, F22's etc etc .. JF17 and other Chinese planes will be a good deterrence for IAF. Yes, its not the best at the moment, but we have other MORE important areas to invest in.

Whether we know how to talk to a white guy or not .. I think this discussion will not remain civil so lets not go there. What I do know is that you have dedicated your Life for the betterment of USA, and have given them all your tax dollars to wage wars around the world including Pakistan. They have killed countless innocent people with your Tax Dollars .. and you tell us that we dont know how to talk to white ppl.

What lesson did we learn. Buy more of the same planes and wait for next round of sanctions. If we go by the experience theory than we have more experience on the mirages than on the F-16s. We would have easily adopted to the new platform and already have maintenance facility for the French fighters which should have been upgraded.

Education indeed is important but unfortunately its not the education but the weapons that save you in war.

 

[ajkhan7]

In todays world if you want anything to be implemented u need musle power .... and to have muscle power u need strong economy ... They both complement each other.....

There are no weaponry in the world which can save u if u have a starving and unhappy nation backing the armed forces as depicted by breaking up of USSR and more recently Iraq..... Lets face it ...... we need to work on all sides at one time.....

We as a nation have been used, manipulated and looted by Politicians and most of all by dictators..... each governence arm should restrict itself to its functions and everythign will work out fine.... Insha Allah

 

[MastanKhan]

I must say this forum attracts some real characters. The veteran Mr. Mastan, the second hand car sales man from California, the expert on every thing military specially the air force and who looks down on every one else. He spent years on the this forum propagating against the JF17 and I think he was also a great fan of the Grippin and now it is the M2K. The thing he doesn't know is that the PAF M2K deal was tainted from the start, the price was very inflated and the only person who would have benefited from the deal was Zardari. He also doesn't know that the only reason IAF purchased M2Ks was to counter PAF's F16 and the ongoing upgrade of the M2K is more expensive than the original price of the planes but also more than equivalent brand new contemporary planes like the F16. The only one laughing all the way to the Bank are the French. As far as Kargil is concerned Indians lost 3 jets and 1 helicopter and PAF none. IAF, despite the superiority, never dared to cross the border, not during Kargil or after the parliament attack or after the Mumbai attack - I wonder why. And then we have characters like Nishan 101 who thinks that buying military equipment is like buying sabzi or fruit i.e. must be done in the dozens. He is either 9 years old or has serious learning disabilities. Guys like them do provide some comedic relief on the forum but they can also be very embarrassing.

Bossman,

Are you back hunting for the BEAR one more time.

 

[Side-Winder]

Bossman,

Are you back hunting for the BEAR one more time.

LMAO,i still remember that story

 

[Bossman]

Bossman,

Are you back hunting for the BEAR one more time.

Enlighten me as I have no recollection. Was this one of the 100 times when I have been able to totally rip apart your shallow arguments and so called expertise on military matters and you have never done that to me even once.

 

[Arsalan]

Trying to get on track..
MLU Status anyone?
@fatman17

 

[raazh]

Enlighten me as I have no recollection. Was this one of the 100 times when I have been able to totally rip apart your shallow arguments and so called expertise on military matters and you have never done that to me even once.

All MK has to add is that HE knows everything and the Rest of the KIDS (ppl) in Pakistan are dumb and they have no idea what the World is doing. Only he knows how to use Google for answers and how to deal with white ppl I remember your discussions with MK in older posts and I wanted to back your posts but unfortunately dont find enough time to login this forum and post regularly.

 

[MastanKhan]

All MK has to add is that HE knows everything and the Rest of the KIDS (ppl) in Pakistan are dumb and they have no idea what the World is doing. Only he knows how to use Google for answers and how to deal with white ppl I remember your discussions with MK in older posts and I wanted to back your posts but unfortunately dont find enough time to login this forum and post regularly.

Hi,

Just because most of you say otherwise---does that mean you are right----. Absolutely not---because you are the off shoot of that same old mindset---which has resulted in failure more often than not.

I can understand where you are coming from----incompetent people have to protect their turf as well----otherwise they won't have any jobs.

It is very difficult for pakistanis to accept that the sanctions were due to their own fault---that is why they blame it on the others---instead of doing things to correct the issues that may lead to sanctions---paks have not done anything to fight this issue on war footings----.

It is very difficult for pakistanis to understand that the PAF is a failed organization---it failures are on the brink of being in the same league as treason---why is it difficult for paks to accept it---because they have put this organization on such a high pedastel for so long----given them status next to the proverbial 'gods' that if now you accept that paf is a failure---then all your ideology comes crumbling down.

Who wants to accept their mistakes---successful nations or those want to change and be successful---who don't want to accept their mistakes----those who want to live in status quo---.

12 years have gone by after 9 /11 almost---just few days ----and not a single aircraft that can make the same statement as the SU30.

You want to come BEAR hunting---with pleasure any time---any day.

 

[nomi007]

which aircraft situated next to f-16 in orange color

 

[Last Hope]

which aircraft situated next to f-16 in orange color

It is Turkish F-16.

 

[Imran Khan]

which aircraft situated next to f-16 in orange color

duch F-16

 

[Tameem]

@MastanKhan,

I think, when in 2013 you still have the time and patience to highlights the failures of PAF as an orgainization and not Pakistan & its people as a nation, then its only you here who actually represents the typical PAF fanboys list no one else......period.

In last 13 years or so from an ordinary man on the streets to any elites in banglows no one care much about PAF anymore.......Its only & only Pakistan then its idealogy, then its economy.....even we puts our jugular vein soverignity on back burners don't you understands and in this dire atmosphere you still weeping around PAF's successes and failure individually, doesn't Its 'P' stands for Pakistan and people serving in it are first and foremost resident Pakistanis?

despite being an elites in our armed forces branches she still can't force decision making to her desires endeavours from a top brass (military or civillian) who still can't formulates a basic concrete policy towards TTP and we as a nation still trying to comprehends the basics of the basics i.e either this War is Our's or Not, there are ordinary peoples in our country muslims, ideoligical Pakistanis who still justifies attacks on Mehran base and GHQs.....for god's sack pls comeouts from your hybernation.....we have more dire issues on hands then your favorite pastime especially when it went completely out of context & common sense.

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan,

I think, when in 2013 you still have the time and patience to highlights the failures of PAF as an orgainization and not Pakistan & its people as a nation, then its only you here who actually represents the typical PAF fanboys list no one else......period.

In last 13 years or so from an ordinary man on the streets to any elites in banglows no one care much about PAF anymore.......Its only & only Pakistan then its idealogy, then its economy.....even we puts our jugular vein soverignity on back burners don't you understands and in this dire atmosphere you still weeping around PAF's successes and failure individually, doesn't Its 'P' stands for Pakistan and people serving in it are first and foremost resident Pakistanis?

despite being an elites in our armed forces branches she still can't force decision making to her desires endeavours from a top brass (military or civillian) who still can't formulates a basic concrete policy towards TTP and we as a nation still trying to comprehends the basics of the basics i.e either this War is Our's or Not, there are ordinary peoples in our country muslims, ideoligical Pakistanis who still justifies attacks on Mehran base and GHQs.....for god's sack pls comeouts from your hybernation.....we have more dire issues on hands then your favorite pastime especially when it went completely out of context & common sense.

Hi,

God Almighty----you people are THICK---what have pakistanis done in retaliation---what have they done to change things around them---. Pakistanis are famous for 'all talk and no substance'---.

There is a reason why I am 'weeping' about paf's impotence---and if you don't know or understand the what a strong air force brings to the nation---it is like me playing the been.

Pakistani residents are patheTic---if it was not for us expats---they would be eating dirt by now---. Everyday---you paks beg us expats to send money---foreign exchange.

You may think that you are being productive---and you maybe be basing your analysis on your standards and what you know---and we are telling you that your standards are way below the 'standard'---and your efforts are below being 'pathetic'---and we are telling you that being pathetic and living pathetic is disgusting for a human being.

A nation without a strong air force would have lost its right to survive under any adverse conditions---. A strong air force---with a competitive flying wing has always been the need of the hour for pakistan---.

If you paks care less for the air force---then why don't you say ' it is over with'----make peace with india and get done with it.

You paks are worse off today as compared to 13 years ago----in every aspect of life. You have lost your freedom---you have lost your integrity---you are at the mercy of suicide bombers---you are at the mercy of lunatics ---you have lost your sanity.

I don't have any problem when a poster gets mad at me---we agree to disagree---but when the sense of reasoning and common sense flies out into the ether----when PRIDE overtakes common sense---you have already lost your cause.

One poster says ---there was a supposedly large payoff to Zardari---what difference did it make---if 50 million was to be paid to Zardari---at least you had he tools and resource to stand tall against the enemy and not to hide in your bunkers.

YOU STUPID FOOLS---ask your grand parents who immigrated from india----those whose guns were confiscated by the british govt before the migration---ask them---GRANDPA GRANDMA----HOW MUCH WOULD YOU HAVE PAID FOR THAT .303 RIFLE AND A BIT OF AMMUNITION WHEN THAT SIKH JATHA WAS COMING FOR YOUR PRETTY GIRLS.

Ask them what price they would pay for weapons to save the rapes of hundreds of thousand of muslim girls and women---and you too MURADK----ask your father if he came across from the border---what price would he paid for that .303---2 times---3 times---5 times or 10 times the price. Muradk---you failed the nation---and look at these young mongrels---protecting and defending your lies and incompetence.

Being honest is good----but being honest and having no concept of the consequences that would result from the decision being made is an atrocity.

Major weapons system purchases cannot be delayed---once the decision has been made---they must move forward.

WHAT FEARS INDIA THE MOST---the shame and embarrassment of its air force being beaten by pakistani air force---and the biggest fear it has is its SU30's being taken out by the paks.

SU30 is next to a god in hindustan---you paks had 13 years to do it---and yet you don't have a single platform to take this menace on---one on one----. You got nothing that can fly with the arrogance of a SU30 in the sub continent skies---and you had all the time and the money to do it when it was needed to be done---.

You could not even shoot down that su30 that blatantly flew over punjab---all you had was a gun camera photo of a missile lock----instead of an actual shootdown of a plane that is 100 miles into your territory---.

What a proud moment for children of Sultan Tippu, Khalid Bin Waleed, Tariq Bin Ziyyad, Mohammad Bin Qasim----din't you make them heroes proud now----cherish the thought----but if you have an iota of character left in you and if there is a miniscule of doubt lingering in your minds that you may be wrong, then hold onto that thought and and try to change---because maintaining a status quo---that is not the 'islamic' way.

A muslim does not stay ordinary---.