Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Chak Bamu]

@MastanKhan, Sir you arguments are well-noted.

1. I agree JF-17 is not a do-all plane which can scare MKIs. But we can hardly do any better at this point, and that too is a burden on our very limited resources. As I said, the question is if it can survive in own airspace against 4th gen combat air craft.

Your point about better Radar and potent missile is well-noted. I do not know nearly enough to comment on this. But then SD-10A (or B?) is an unknown. So, is the actual working of KLJ-7. Would IAF want to find out? I doubt it sir. The stakes are too high. Perhaps the aggressive attitude of IAF is to gauge our responses?

2. I think you have a strong point about us opting for more Blk-52s. But the evolving strategic environment would indicate that we ought to step away from US influence for the medium term at least, until US policies change a bit. But we do need a Higher performing aircraft to provide cover for other (JF-17, F-7PG) less capable aircraft. Let us wait and see what PAF decides.

3. Small incidents do not bother me as such. Things like these go on most of the time. Indian government needs to show something to their people in these uncertain times. Tension at the border has its value in diverting attention from domestic woes. I do not see a serious war in the next decade or so. Both the countries stand to loose too much.

 

[MastanKhan]

Chak Bamu,

Thank you for your post. Pak military is a firm believer in quality over quantity---they would rather have the american equipment than anything else---. The problems here lies with the civilians---pakistani civilians need to come to terms with the reality that the u s weapons system are the first choice for pak military---if they can afford them---. It now depends upon the civilians to create situations so that the sanctions don't come into force at any time.

Even the talk of sanctions by the u s must be met head on in the u s media talk shows. Since the OBL issue in Abbottabad---no pakistani has come on the u s media and defended pakistan's position tooth and nail.

Until and unless the pakistanis don't learn to fight for pakistan's image in front of the u s and world media---like the jews do for israel and for their rights everywhere----pakistan will always be pressed hard.

Now as for small incidences----once you learn to understand the significance and importance of small incidences---you will learn to appreciate how important a role they play in our daily lives at the international level.

Small incidences are like being suffocated a little bit at a time---without knowing that every incidence gets you closer to death---but as it is not right in your face---we think it is not important.

It is just like 'auto erotic asphyxiation'---it gives you the high---but takes away a bit of you wioth out you comprehending it---till the day comes when you don't get out of it---but it is too late.

With my experience----small issues with india are of a bigger concern than the larger issues. That is why they have a saying---NIP IT IN THE BUD----an then there is that famous quote from Napoleon---'pin pricks start wars'.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Chak Bamu,

Thank you for your post. Pak military is a firm believer in quality over quantity---they would rather have the american equipment than anything else---. The problems here lies with the civilians---pakistani civilians need to come to terms with the reality that the u s weapons system are the first choice for pak military---if they can afford them---. It now depends upon the civilians to create situations so that the sanctions don't come into force at any time.

Even the talk of sanctions by the u s must be met head on in the u s media talk shows. Since the OBL issue in Abbottabad---no pakistani has come on the u s media and defended pakistan's position tooth and nail.

Until and unless the pakistanis don't learn to fight for pakistan's image in front of the u s and world media---like the jews do for israel and for their rights everywhere----pakistan will always be pressed hard.

Now as for small incidences----once you learn to understand the significance and importance of small incidences---you will learn to appreciate how important a role they play in our daily lives at the international level.

Small incidences are like being suffocated a little bit at a time---without knowing that every incidence gets you closer to death---but as it is not right in your face---we think it is not important.

It is just like 'auto erotic asphyxiation'---it gives you the high---but takes away a bit of you wioth out you comprehending it---till the day comes when you don't get out of it---but it is too late.

With my experience----small issues with india are of a bigger concern than the larger issues. That is why they have a saying---NIP IT IN THE BUD----an then there is that famous quote from Napoleon---'pin pricks start wars'.

1. Perhaps it is easier for certain types of equipment to be sourced during sanctions. I am quite sure airborne assets are numerically rarer and their parts likely contain higher tech parts & systems. I would not equate Army and AF in this matter.

2. Relations between nations are dependent upon relative strengths and weaknesses and strategic weight distribution. Right now I see US policy in a period of flux and it is a bit beyond me to understand hows and whys of decision makers. Long-term Pakistan and US relations are not entirely contingent upon AFPAK policy, or AQ related issues only. Pakistan's resistance to US policies in the region is easy to understand. The hegemonic policies would not stop at keeping us from passive resistance, they would want active role from Pakistan in relation to Iran and even China. Once we give up passive resistance, we would be required to do a lot more. The mantra of "Do More" would never cease unless US ropes us into its corner.

Of my adult years, I have lived in US for a decade, and I have lived in Pakistan for more than one, and half a decade was spent in ME. Throughout I have kept an eye on strategy-related material; and yet I am not an expert at how US conducts its foreign policy. However, I do have a feel for it. My view is that Pakistan necessarily HAS to resist US in a passive manner. The only way they can compel us is by pressurizing us from various fronts, especially from the East. We are doing as well as we possibly can given the circumstances. Look at AlKhalid, JF-17, as the most obvious examples of our effort to move away from US influence. We are even working with Serbia for our defence needs. This pro-active approach needs to be continued.

Pakistanis themselves were very confused and bewildered about OBL raid. It was a bit too much to expect anyone to address US media.

I am ambivalent about issue of more F-16s for PAF. It is a difficult call for me to make. I really do not know enough to be able to have an informed opinion. I can merely note bang-for-buck vs. Strategic dynamics dialectic (if indeed it is that simple) and leave the issue for people far more well-informed to make their call. I hardly have any option other than to trust the decision makers' judgement.

3. About small incidents and pin pricks, I note your straight forward approach. But I do not think that Napoleon meant by his remarks what you seem to be conveying. He was a rather taciturn person, who planned at an entirely different level. I take his remark to mean how is one to start a war of expansion. I do not recall him as ever being the one to be pricked. He did all the pricking in his time. Any commander would know the value of gathering data. Pin pricks reveal a lot. Knowing that one is being pricked, one can do with it as one pleases. It is like a game. Napoleon sometimes spent months maneuvering his army looking for a decisive advantage against the opposing army, gathering intelligence all the time via spies and limited skirmishes.

Our relative weakness at this time necessitates biding our time while making peace overtures. If India reciprocates, excellent; otherwise we can show the world that we do not want war and build pressure on India that way. We are not exactly friendless either, nor are we entirely powerless. It is not a straight forward game. There are a lot of variables. I can imagine a level of paranoia that must pervade in Indian GHQ. War does not serve any purpose for them at this time. Indians are rather predictable. It is the unpredictable foe that makes one think seriously.

 

[VelocuR]

@Windjammer, do you have big picture of this or any link?

 

[Imran Khan]

@Windjammer, do you have big picture of this or any link?

from redflag video sir jee

 

[VelocuR]

from redflag video sir jee

Thank bro- Great picture

 

[That Guy]

from redflag video sir jee

Is this old, or did Pakistan participate in another red flag exercise recently?

 

[he-man]

Ok ppl can anyone tell me the best radar in pakistani f-16's??apg-66 or 68?

If apg-68 then which version and the specifications of that radar like range etc

Does f-16 have a dedicated irst??If yes then range will be appreciated

 

[Kompromat]

Ok ppl can anyone tell me the best radar in pakistani f-16's??apg-66 or 68?

If apg-68 then which version and the specifications of that radar like range etc

Does f-16 have a dedicated irst??If yes then range will be appreciated

AN/APG-68V9.

 

[he-man]

AN/APG-68V9.

what about the range etc??

 

[Kompromat]

what about the range etc??

All details here.

apg68(v)9 Video

 

[he-man]

All details here.

apg68(v)9 Video

SORRY TO SAY BUT IT DOES NOT TELL ABOUT

1)PEAK POWER RATING
2)APERTURE SIZE
3)AVERAGE POWER
4)GAIN
5)RANGE

its just a pr video!!

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

SORRY TO SAY BUT IT DOES NOT TELL ABOUT

1)PEAK POWER RATING
2)APERTURE SIZE
3)AVERAGE POWER
4)GAIN
5)RANGE

its just a pr video!!

AN/APG-68(V)9 Multimode Fire Control Radar

No satisfaction even here then kindly contact Northrop Grumman.

https://apps.northropgrumman.com/RFIForms/Pages/ESGeneralRFI.aspx?PID=AN-10134&IsDlg=2

They might even give you one for detailed study.

 

[he-man]

AN/APG-68(V)9 Multimode Fire Control Radar

No satisfaction, even here then kindly contact Northrop Grumman.

https://apps.northropgrumman.com/RFIForms/Pages/ESGeneralRFI.aspx?PID=AN-10134&IsDlg=2

They might even give you one for detailed study.

No nothing.........

 

[HRK]

@<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=21078" target="_blank">Windjammer</a></u>, do you have big picture of this or any link?

[video]http://www.********.com/view?i=2c9_1342842163[/video]