Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Manticore]

there are free media storage/sharing sites, which also provide forum posting codes-- i used *******.com/ photobucket /mediafire .... but there are many more

 

[Chogy]

.And we all know that F35 maximum speed in under mach 2.0 which raises doubts about its close engagements.

In my entire career, I exceeded mach 2 only twice. The vast majority of combat takes place between mach 0.8 to maybe M1.4. The inability to do mach 2+ is not that great of a hindrance when you have missiles that can do M4.0 to M6.0+

An aircraft at mach 2 has a titanic turn radius, which is entirely dependent upon airspeed. Turn rate is another thing, but it too drops dramatically when not at corner velocity, which for most fighters is between 380 to 480 knots.

Also internally current planned weapons for integration is only up to two air-to-air missiles.Doesn't this make it vulnerable even after its sophisticated sensors,because neither this fighter has been demonstrated in combat nor the Stealth of any of the fighters of USA has been tested in any of the wars.

Extensive tests have been made pitting F-22 to expertly-flown F-15's, which greatly outnumbered the Raptors. The F-15's all died, every time. It works. Plus, the F-117 flew with impunity over Baghdad, lost one to a proverbial golden BB over the Balkans.

The F-35 is a replacement for the F-16, a multi-role fighter. In Gulf War 1, within the USAF, ALL pure air to air missions were given to the F-15. F-16's were limited to self-defense. That doesn't mean the F-16 cannot fight, it was a decision made at the time because the F-15 was simply better than the -16 in 1991. Same deal with the F-35, it'll mostly haul bombs and A2G ordnance, but that doesn't mean it cannot swing to air to air.

 

[raazh]

@ Chogy or any knowledgeable member!

Please confirm one more thing: Since 1st Gulf war, whats the max number of air-air kills by any pilot, of any air force, in a single sortie ?

 

[MJaa]

Six More F-16 C/D Block 52+ Fighter Jets to Arrive from USA


Pakistan Air Force will get six F-16 C/D Block 52+ fighter jets from United States today. This will bring the total number of F-16 C/D Block 52+ fighter jets with Pakistan Air Force to 12. Remaining six F-16 C/D Block 52+ will arrive in Pakistan next month. Pakistani government have taken up the option of another 18 F-16 C/D Block 52+ which will bring the total number of F-16 C/D Block 52+ fighter jets in PAF to 36.

These aircrafts are equipped with the AIM-120 C-5 AMRAAM beyond the visual range missiles to deal with the threats beyond the range of short range missiles. This makes F-16 C/D Block 52+ first air craft in Pakistani service that is equipped with such capability. By the end of 2010, JF-17 Thunders with SD-10A BVRAAM will join the F-16 C/D Block 52+ fighter jets to provide airdefense with long range BVRAAMs.


Read More @ Pakistan Military Review: Pakistan Military Review

 

[Arsalan]

Six more high tech new fighter F-16 aircrafts reached Pakistan from United States today. With landing of six F-16 at Jacobabad airbase, the total of the aircrafts delivered to Pakistan so far reached to 12. Pakistan would get 18, F-16 C/D Block 52 aircrafts from the USA under an agreement the countries signed in 2005-2006.

The last batch of six more aircraft is likely to be delivered to Pakistan in December this year.

the Siz F-16 to be deliverd today have landed at Shahbaz airbase. the balance six will arruve next month completing the delivery of 18 ordered.
Initial time line suggested the deliver of 17 F-16 BLK52 to be completed by December 2010 while the last one to arraive in dcember 2011. its been negotiated and will arrive next month along with five others planned closing the deal. Congratulation to PAF and Pakistan!

the decesion to ordered 18 more Nlk52 is still undr debat in PAF and has not been discussed with USA as yet.

regards!

 

[unicorn]

In my entire career, I exceeded mach 2 only twice. The vast majority of combat takes place between mach 0.8 to maybe M1.4. The inability to do mach 2+ is not that great of a hindrance when you have missiles that can do M4.0 to M6.0+

An aircraft at mach 2 has a titanic turn radius, which is entirely dependent upon airspeed. Turn rate is another thing, but it too drops dramatically when not at corner velocity, which for most fighters is between 380 to 480 knots.



Extensive tests have been made pitting F-22 to expertly-flown F-15's, which greatly outnumbered the Raptors. The F-15's all died, every time. It works. Plus, the F-117 flew with impunity over Baghdad, lost one to a proverbial golden BB over the Balkans.

The F-35 is a replacement for the F-16, a multi-role fighter. In Gulf War 1, within the USAF, ALL pure air to air missions were given to the F-15. F-16's were limited to self-defense. That doesn't mean the F-16 cannot fight, it was a decision made at the time because the F-15 was simply better than the -16 in 1991. Same deal with the F-35, it'll mostly haul bombs and A2G ordnance, but that doesn't mean it cannot swing to air to air.

Here is a scenario. In the ‘Blue’ corner, we have a flight of four F-35A JSFs, each armed with four AIM-120D Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles and the 25 mm GD ATP GAU-22/A cannon. No additional weapons or fuel are carried, because these would compromise the JSFs' “low observability” to X-Band radar. In the ‘Red’ corner, we have a flight of four Su-35S, each armed with four RVV-SD Active Radar Seeker BVR Missiles, four RVV-SD Infra-Red (IR) Seeker BVR missiles, two RVV-MD Within Visual Range (WVR) missiles, the 30mm GSh-301 cannon, KNIRTI SAP-518 jammers on the wingtips and a 6,000 litre conformal tank between the engines. Each aircraft has the full range of sensors and countermeasures.

Here is a table to show how they compare:

yes the turn angles are larger in high speeds.but that is the only disadvantages you mentioned.what about the perpendicular climbing abilities, they cannot be achieved if your plane is moving slow.there are lots of advantages in moving fast than slow.and with such gigantic payload of f35 the f35 can very easily be out manuvered by by planes moving fast.can you give your opinion what will be the climb rate of f35?

 

[unicorn]

A key problem for the F-35 family of aircraft is that genuine X/S-band low observability is only achieved in a relatively narrow angular sector around the nose of the aircraft. This forces the aircraft to ‘point it's nose’ at the highest threat, denying flexibility in prosecuting a missile shot, or evading multiple threats. The absence of cheek and aft radar arrays exacerbates the problem, and cannot be fixed given the weight, power and cooling problems in the basic airframe design (Diagram © 2010 Dr Carlo Kopp).

 

[fatman17]

the decesion to ordered 18 more Nlk52 is still undr debat in PAF and has not been discussed with USA as yet.

the bush admin had approved delivery of 28 F-16A/Bs which were embargoed and so far 14 a/c have been delivered and 14 a/c are due to the PAF.

since USN is not releasing these 14 a/c, the US has to 'resolve' this 'open' issue by providing 14 EDA a/c (most probably blk 40s) or agree to sell 14 new models under FMS. - this will be resolved soon.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

May be we should get these factories transferred over to Pakistan ?

Since we will have 100 odd F16 it makes sense to open a F16 Factory in Pakistan -

I mean we are still good with F16 for next 10 years

 

[Rank]

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Dear Think Tanks!

Must have some strings attached with AN/APG-68 (V)9 radar since it is in the top notch AESA radars. Proven ranges of 280+ Kms.

 

[SQ8]

Dear Think Tanks!

Must have some strings attached with AN/APG-68 (V)9 radar since it is in the top notch AESA radars. Proven ranges of 280+ Kms.

Thinking cap on..
the APG-68 is not an ESA.. it is a mechanically steered radar.
Its range is verified and proven to be limited to 270km for accurate detection.
It is one of the best mechanically steered radars..but not an ESA.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Thinking cap on..
the APG-68 is not an ESA.. it is a mechanically steered radar.
Its range is verified and proven to be limited to 270km for accurate detection.
It is one of the best mechanically steered radars..but not an ESA.

My bad. You are right!



But still i thought Pakistan was pressing for AESA version APG-80. Now i remember!
AESA was with Block 60 for UAE and US refused to give the AESA to PAF. None the less with SAAB AEW platforms i donot think it will make much difference in detection ranges, can just patch through the SAAB to acquire the target.

 

[Rank]

Anybuddy notice ?? these are not BLOCK 52 (few of block 52) others old one!

 

[SQ8]

Anybuddy notice ?? these are not BLOCK 52 (few of block 52) others old one!

Would you allow for misprints??
25 and 52.. ??