Pakistan discusses Su-35, S-400, T-90 MBT purchase with Russia.

[Basel]

The second option is completely viable.


National security and defence comes first, will Iran provide funds for PAF to buy new jets? All these deal is under the table, so you don't worry it might irritate Iran.

If second option is viable then Russia and China can close deal of at least another 24 birds as per Pakistani requirements and Russia allow resell in contract, so China finance deal via soft loans, win win situation and India will not be able to blame Russia, also Russia can shed crocodile tears to satisfy India.

 

[LKJ86]

IMO, Pakistan should concentrate resources in 5th gen fighter. The development of fighter is speeded up, and 5.5 or 6th gen fighter will come out soon.

 

[ziaulislam]

If China can sell copies of Mig-19 & 21s why not copies of Sukhois can be sold??

i think they can , its more an issue from PAF side and issue of money/credit..we are buying so much stuff on credit and there is limit to what we want to buy this way

 

[Basel]

i think they can , its more an issue from PAF side and issue of money/credit..we are buying so much stuff on credit and there is limit to what we want to buy this way

Ever heard of EOL facility in finance??

 

[ziaulislam]

The second option is completely viable.


National security and defence comes first, will Iran provide funds for PAF to buy new jets? All these deal is under the table, so you don't worry it might irritate Iran.

no, no iran hate us to the core, but cant do anything about it...
they dreamt in 1980s to overtake Pakistan like syria but realized its not possible and such an attempt will threaten their existence..
we want to keep balance because at this moment we are engaged in two(too) many fronts and cant open a third front(in addition to india and Afghanistan)

iran helped and indirectly supported a completely full blown RAW wing under Kulbhushan Jadhav (a.ka hussein patel with iranian passport) in baluchistan..now both countries have come to understanding that we will dismantle any jundalluh remains and they will not support insurgency as they did multiple times in the past
unfortunately their is big group of shia patriots that have unconditional allegiance to iran

 

[Papa Dragon]

Don't underestimate them. Bhutto once said, they will eat grass but get the BUM. With the way they are going,I am all for them trying to match us. There is a reason their forex is in the negative. Also let them get a taste to Russian after sales like we have for all these years.

P.s. On a serious note these articles surely help Russia's bargaining position. I mean 4 talwar class frigates, S400 are to be finalized by October when Putin and Modi meet. And then there is the question of PAKFA and Armata.

Why the heck do we need frigates when we are already producing top of the line destroyers and frigates at home. Aren't we gonna waste tons of forex reserves in procuring something which we already have the capability to produce em in house

We don't have money but still we have $5 billion worth of 8 submarines on order

Your navy's budget is 940 million and even if the subs are being procured over a couple of years, let's say 1 sub/yr - which is around $700mil each year. That means you are spending a lion's share of your navy budget on the procurement of 1 sub and what are you gonna do to maintain the rest of your fleet and personnel. That directly concludes that y'all begged China and they're giving it to you on loan which depletes your forex drastically
https://thediplomat.com/2017/06/pakistan-raises-defense-spending/

We don't have money but still we have 12 Vipers + hellfire missiles worth $952 million on order

Your orders for vipers are an aid that is being provided by the US and you aren't using your own money. Now that Trump is threatening to convert those grants into loan, you guys are further screwed
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/23...eatens-to-cut-aid-to-pakistan-does-it-matter/

https://www.dawn.com/news/1334939

We don't have money but still we have produced 100 Jf-17s as of now and will produce 12 more this year before moving to block 3

You guys are inducting junk which even the Chinese rejected to induct even a single plane in their AF, not even as a trainer or a test plane

We don't have money but still our indigenous tank and fighter jet is performing better than yours and are operational in our military

If painting some Chinese junk with some cheap Chinese paint is what you call indigenous, good look with that and I should say PAC's painters have done a brilliant job

I don't know where you were taught this shit but the condition of our military equipment is way better than yours and your soldiers are begging for more food while our soldiers gets proper nutrition.

With the kind of censorship that exists in your army and media, don't even expect your guys to come out and complain about the drawbacks and y'all don't even claim your dead soldiers. Moreover, you guys are almost at the bottom of the HDI & Global Hunger Index even though our population is way more than yours.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Hunger_Index

 

[jupiter2007]

i think they can , its more an issue from PAF side and issue of money/credit..we are buying so much stuff on credit and there is limit to what we want to buy this way

Chinese offered to sell J-10C for 65 million each, do think they will sell J-11/J-16 for cheap?
Chinese are not selling anything for pennies.... They also want to make money.

As far as SU-35 purchase is concerned, negotiation doesn't take too long if you want to buy something off the shelf. It usually takes time when you're negotiating for transfer of technology even if it's just assembly line at the local facility (Kamra or new location).
Pakistan probably want to assemble the plane (this will reduce the overall price of the plane), engine overhaul facility setup in Pakistan and loan for the purchase.

 

[Crystal-Clear]

Ok go for s-400 bcoz Pakistan need this very badly. But don't forget they are Russians they don't give you any discount like USA & China


we will start with S-400 .

[/QUOTE]
since when you are start getting worried about us?

 

[GumNaam]

Chinese offered to sell J-10C for 65 million each, do think they will sell J-11/J-16 for cheap?
Chinese are not selling anything for pennies.... They also want to make money.

As far as SU-35 purchase is concerned, negotiation doesn't take too long if you want to buy something off the shelf. It usually takes time when you're negotiating for transfer of technology even if it's just assembly line at the local facility (Kamra or new location).
Pakistan probably want to assemble the plane (this will reduce the overall price of the plane), engine overhaul facility setup in Pakistan and loan for the purchase.

What you said is spot on and a heck of a lot more complicated than that. The su35 has to be compatible with our radars and AWACS and other communication systems and on top of that, it has to be made of parts that are reliable and easy to repair and maintain. As of right now, it is NOT.

The su35 easily has the potential of turning into a dead white elephant in the room and is only affordable for countries like China. Heck even india's su30 Ida running into trouble with multiple crashes, grounding and other technical failures that got so expensive that the iaf had to settle for crap used engines just keep the damn thing runway worthy.

no offence to Russian technology, it maybe cutting edge but reliable IT IS NOT!

 

[ziaulislam]

Chinese offered to sell J-10C for 65 million each, do think they will sell J-11/J-16 for cheap?
Chinese are not selling anything for pennies.... They also want to make money.

correct and hence PAF not opting for J11, instead focusing on jf-17 and project azm and if available older used f-16s(not new)

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Chinese offered to sell J-10C for 65 million each, do think they will sell J-11/J-16 for cheap?
Chinese are not selling anything for pennies.... They also want to make money.

As far as SU-35 purchase is concerned, negotiation doesn't take too long if you want to buy something off the shelf. It usually takes time when you're negotiating for transfer of technology even if it's just assembly line at the local facility (Kamra or new location).
Pakistan probably want to assemble the plane (this will reduce the overall price of the plane), engine overhaul facility setup in Pakistan and loan for the purchase.

It's not ToT. Remember: Pakistan is almost certainly looking for a loan to back a purchase (just as it had sought loans from Turkey, Sweden and China for various arms). That'll take years to negotiate as well. Not only will the Russians need to see Pakistan stick to a payment schedule, but because the Russians are at risk of losing much more from India, they'll need to see how Pakistan can make it worth their while.

 

[gangsta_rap]

they dreamt in 1980s to overtake Pakistan like syria but realized its not possible and such an attempt will threaten their existence..

We sold them surplus stingers for them to use against Iraq and we had the 'fundamentalist' Zia Ul Haq as our president at the time. It's not black and white. You would do well to look at everything thats in between.

 

[salarsikander]

Khanay k liy press nahi aur banani ha khayali pilao

 

[The SC]

T-90 as first step..

 

[princefaisal]

Following points should be considered in the upcoming SU35 deal:-

1. Stealth coating to reduce frontal RCS.

2. Assembling facility in Pakistan

3. Engine overhaul facility

4. Active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar

5. Thales TopOwl-F helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system

6. Integration of Marlin and Darter missiles.