Pakistan developing maritime doctrine

[Muhammad Omar]

Corvette's are not finalised yet

Apart from F 22P we don't have much of power punch ships these are small craft boats Pakistan inducted won't do much damage to Indian talwar class and vishnakapatnam class

That's why i always say Pakistan should Induct some Type-052D and Type-054D and later go to type 55

but the real issue is $$$$

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well we sit on the mouth of International Piracy route.
Also we do have 800-1000 km long coast line

For our Coast line an marine time role a Solid Navy on Same level that of our military and Air-force is need of time

2 Destroyers (Must have)
4 Frigates or 7 Corvettes (Choose one area of growth)

I always find Navy plays a important role in any conflict at least in last 20 years it is 100% clear to me

Indonesian ship of SIGMA class is a beauty (Above)

Also this other ship (Below)

Would be nice option - The turkish ships are no doubt also great option

• We have a full fledged Steel Mills sitting around doing nothing , if they have nothing to do give them work for some Large Indigenous ships

 

[iby32]

If budget allow and miltary planing properly upgrade navy with
4 destroyers
12 heavy frigates
10 corvets
2 nuclear subs
10 conventional subs
20 FAC
2 squdrons of heavy strike fighter to deny any indian day dreaming of naval blocked
Anti ship helicopters
Good air defence long rang sam and antishp costal battries in next 20 years i am sure pakistan can afford 20 to 30 billion usd in 20 to 25 years

EEZ or no EEZ Pakistani naval ships can roam the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean as long as you do not enter the territorial waters of other countries. You cannot exploit the economic resources from another country's EEZ. Indian navy has the right to operate into Pakistan' EEZ. Pakistan ability to intercept Indian maritime traffic is limited. You will get into a war with a navy 10 times larger.

Why indian navy have right to operate in pakistani waters??

 

[wiseone2]

If budget allow and miltary planing properly upgrade navy with
4 destroyers
12 heavy frigates
10 corvets
2 nuclear subs
10 conventional subs
20 FAC
2 squdrons of heavy strike fighter to deny any indian day dreaming of naval blocked
Anti ship helicopters
Good air defence long rang sam and antishp costal battries in next 20 years i am sure pakistan can afford 20 to 30 billion usd in 20 to 25 years


Why indian navy have right to operate in pakistani waters??

I will try to explain again
Territorial waters are exclusive domain of the host country
EEZ is for economic exploitation of the host country. Foreign warships are free to operate in your EEZ

 

[iby32]

I will try to explain again
Territorial waters are exclusive domain of the host country
EEZ is for economic exploitation of the host country. Foreign warships are free to operate in your EEZ

I just read the lawvbecause i wasnot aware with it. Foregin military ship only perform limited peacetime operations in some1 eez in war time between 2 bordering countries no eez remain

 

[CHI RULES]

Because they are to remain in service for at least another 5 years likely longer. I had though the smarter move would be to approach Australia about the 3 remaining Adelaide frigates. These will all be scheduled for retirement in the next 3-4 years. PN could pick them up on the cheap and put them into service giving it 4 OHP frigates. They already 8 cell mk41s and they have their mk13 launcher intact. If PN can get the essm and sm2 its in business (it can add a mk41 to alamghir). If not, get an 8 cell Sylver A35 for alamghir and get quad packed CAMM for all 4 OHP/Adelaides.

As for the EEZ, the only way that it helps Pakistan in any wartime situation is if Pakistan develops it with artificial islands like the Chinese are doing in the South China sea. Put naval bases with 4-5 FACs (type 022 or azmat) each amd possibly airstrips with JF-17S armed with C802A or CM400AKG amd your in business with making it difficult for IN to blockade Karachi. But i dont think Pakistan has the capability (at least financially to make it happen at this point so in time of war, the EEZ is useless.

Pakistan doesn't need to develop artificial islands as it already has number of natural islands around areas of Karachi and Gawadar. Even many of them in old times were used for naval/military purposes and the also have natural camouflage. Many years ago some documentaries regarding these islands were shown on PTV. The naturally developed basis are there PN only requires to develop these islands for their own purposes. They may install SAMS and coastal defense missiles to compensate the shortfall of naval ships and to fill gaps. Even these small naval bases may evade chances of 1971 war like sudden attacks on Gawadar and Karachi ports in future.

Considering current scenario PN perhaps has decided to go for purchase of F23 frigates from UK along with perhaps some Turkish corvettes. PN till these procurements should go for upgrade of sole OHP with Chinese HQ9 LRSAM and increase number FACs. They should go for Hobei class FACS which are more stealthier than Azmat Class,
In addition to that F22Ps should be equipped with HQ16 MRSAM as soon as possible.

 

[Super Falcon]

That's why i always say Pakistan should Induct some Type-052D and Type-054D and later go to type 55

but the real issue is $$$$

Yearly one we can afford

 

[wiseone2]

I just read the lawvbecause i wasnot aware with it. Foregin military ship only perform limited peacetime operations in some1 eez in war time between 2 bordering countries no eez remain

India's EEZ is huge. The Indian navy cold not prevent intrusions by other navies

 

[Super Falcon]

We must have to get 2 destroyers and more frigates and Corvettes

If Indonesia in less budget have better naval force why can't we

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Because our Steels Mill is eating Papad

Actually I was shocked I just found about Indonesia just yesterday I was like wow that is a quite a lovely ship , very practical and can be upgraded in future

This SIGMA class is really beautiful and right size for a modern navy
I was positively impressed by Indonesian Navy greatly - I did not think they had this kind of Engineering base

Notice it also has lovely vertical launchers nice clean design

Turkish Corvette also looks amazing

I honestly did not knew Indonesia had that high GDP to have wonderful modern ships

 

[wiseone2]

We must have to get 2 destroyers and more frigates and Corvettes

If Indonesia in less budget have better naval force why can't we

Indonesia spends little on ground forces. They have a large budget for navy

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

I just read the lawvbecause i wasnot aware with it. Foregin military ship only perform limited peacetime operations in some1 eez in war time between 2 bordering countries no eez remain

Each country has different rules and regulations on foreign naval ships in their EEZ. The US doesn't really give a shit if Iran's frigates come into it's EEZ, or China. But Syria is more forceful in who enters theirs, although it is limited in it's ability to consistently enforce it's doctrine. Unlike China which has the numbers.

Some countries do claim their territorial seas up to 24nm.

If your interested in this topic here's a read by the US Naval War College: https://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment...ctivities-in-the-Exclusive-Economic-Zone.aspx

 

[jupiter2007]

If budget allow and miltary planing properly upgrade navy with
4 destroyers
12 heavy frigates
10 corvets
2 nuclear subs
10 conventional subs
20 FAC
2 squdrons of heavy strike fighter to deny any indian day dreaming of naval blocked
Anti ship helicopters
Good air defence long rang sam and antishp costal battries in next 20 years i am sure pakistan can afford 20 to 30 billion usd in 20 to 25 years


Why indian navy have right to operate in pakistani waters??

Let's be realistic, many countries with better economy don't even have all that. With current corrupt politicians taking turns destroying every government assest, it's impossible for Pakistan to afford half of it.

Pakistan current Naval Inventory:

Destoryer: Currently Pakistan has no destroyer - Pakistan need 2 to 4 destoryers by 2025. Type-052D, Type 055 destroyer, Turkish Destroyer and Sejong the Great-class destroyers.

Four F-22P Zulfiqar class Multipurpose frigate - Pakistan is in need of 8 heavy Frigates, 6 multiple purpose Frigate and 2 air defence Frigate (example - Turkish TF-2000 class air defence frigate)

Five Tariq class Frigate: Pakistan may still keep some of these active as a coastal defence.

Corvette: Pakistan needs 6 modified Ada class corvette.

Fast Attack Craft, three Azmat Class - Pakistan needs 12 Fast Attack Craft.

Missile Boat: Pakistan needs 10 Type 22 missile boat and newer design missile boat between 300 to 600 tons.


Acquiring Surplus Ships might not be a bad idea.

Type 23 Frigate (HMS Argyll,HMS Lancaster and HMS Iron Duke) might be available from UK, decommission probably between 2018-2022.

D'Estienne d'Orves-class aviso from Turkey, decommission probably between 2018-2022.

Cassard class, Georges Leygues class from France, decommission probably between 2018-2022.

Göteborg-class corvette from Swedish Navy, decommission probably between 2018-2022.

Santa María class from Spain, decommission probably between 2018-2022.



Pakistan and China can share naval base in Gwadar, also Airbase can also have Chinese planes.

 

[surya kiran]

I would refrain from comparing Pakistan’s Navy with that of a resource rich island nation such as Indonesia.

.

There is a thread running on Op Dwaraka. Your inputs would be appreciated and would make very good reading.

https://defence.pk/threads/a-veteran’s-account-remembering-the-1965-war-at-sea.449933/

 

[niaz]

There is a thread running on Op Dwaraka. Your inputs would be appreciated and would make very good reading.

https://defence.pk/threads/a-veteran’s-account-remembering-the-1965-war-at-sea.449933/

Honoorble Sir,

I was a student in the UK during 1965 war. So all info I got was from the newspapers and war reports are always exaggerated in the home country for morale boosting purposes so seldom reliable. My comments would therefore be based on hearsay.

Even though I know a retired Commodore of Pak Navy quite well, he was only a Naval Cadet during 1965 hence not well informed. My personal view is that real fighting was on land and in the air. Naval actions were minor and of diversionary nature therefore had little or no relevance on the outcome of the war.