Pakistan demands latest military hardware from UK

[BATMAN]

with major defence cuts in UK, they'd be dumb to let go of their EFTs. They still have plenty of life left in them so why would they want to sell it to PAF?

radars, optics, excess/surplus stuff like ballistic vests or IED detection equipment --- sure. And we'd welcome such things if the deal is good.

it will be interesting to see if anything useful materializes

have you ever came across the used equipment we have been offered? or ever had the opportunity to meet an officer incharge of receiving the container? or ever came across the intial report of any officer after inspection of used equipment? or ever came across any officer ever mentioning used equipment was received in order?

All we need to do is send them bill of transit passage.

I don't want to talk more than this.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Quite sure I am too , we will not go for that retired old junk , the time for Harriers is well past , it doesn't fit our operational doctrine and doesn't offer any capability which the JFT's cant equally or increasingly provide ...

Yes , it can mean anything from trucks , night vision googles , APC's , surveillance equipment anything and likely at throw-away prices ... Yes , UK will find it more easy to sell the equipment here instead of carrying it all the way back to the country with high shipping costs and other hurdles ...

The US is likely to make concessions since they need Islamabad even after they abandon Afghanistan ... So expect some favors from them ... It would be a big mistake if the US gives these equipment to ANA who's intentions even today are unclear since that country is ever volatile and the situation ever changing ... Who knows who will be sitting in Kabul tomorrow ?

At least you can question Pakistan Govt over its action but who would you question in Kabul ? What form of Govt is in there ? Is it even a Govt or that country even a country ? Forget loyalties , my friend ... The ANA will itself be divided between different factions after coalition leaves that country ...



I have a feeling that some sort of deal with the coalition for provision of surplus or useless equipment ( for them ) would materialize ... They need our assistance - their role in Afghanistan hasn't ended yet and there's no better way to gain Islamabad's loyalty than providing weapons ...

pretty much, yes...i agree


the real question is, what "conditions" or "what is the catch"

with these people, there always will be one......lower the price for Karachi-bound transit? allow their intelligence personnel into our country? etc. etc.

there has to be oversight on our end rather than jumping into quick emotional decisions.....i know how happy we all are when we get new toys at our disposal

have you ever came across the used equipment we have been offered? or ever had the opportunity to meet an officer incharge of receiving the container? or ever came across the intial report of any officer after inspection of used equipment? or ever came across any officer ever mentioning used equipment was received in order?

All we need to do is send them bill of transit passage.

I don't want to talk more than this.

i'm a bit ignorant on the subject; i only have a basic idea, but not the details

to answer your question bhai, apart from question # 1-2, the rest of my answers would be "no"

 

[Secur]

pretty much, yes...i agree

the real question is, what "conditions" or "what is the catch"

with these people, there always will be one......lower the price for Karachi-bound transit? allow their intelligence personnel into our country? etc. etc.

there has to be oversight on our end rather than jumping into quick emotional decisions.....i know how happy we all are when we get new toys at our disposal

Indeed " At what cost ? " ... That is the real question ...

Why do not we raise the transit fees for the equipment citing the damage to highways and other infrastructure ? Play that card well , you will end up with battle-worthy equipment ...

Of course things are to be considered , the good thing is that decisions to buy these hardware aren't made at the PM's house but rather at GHQ so I am hoping for the best ...

P.S I am sure I understood where @BATMAN was getting at in part ...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Camerron is a stuck up bigot.
Dont think he will approve any military assistance to Pakistan.
He doesnt like Europeans..how can he like Pakistanis..he doesnt.

hehe

you know him so well
I am sure grudgingly there will be some sales done under the table in order to keep the Indians sweet.
but if he decides to go the expensive route then it wont be a surprise
the guy is a moron and is a butt of the joke by his own party back benchers and opposition for doing things completely the opposite to what is good for the country.

he will be then banging his head that why people dont understand that giving away his hardware for free to get the right of passage from a longer and more expensive route makes more sense than a cheaper and shorter route from Pakistan thats even willing to buy the used stuff and fight the same guys that Britain has been facing in its own country and in Afghanistan.

I can imagine his stubbornness (clueless face ) when there will be a roar of a laughter at his loony reasons. but hey its in the end his call his stuff and he is the PM of his country, if he wishes he can give it as a present to the Afghan warlords to try out on each other once the foreign forces leave.

 

[BATMAN]

i'm a bit ignorant on the subject; i only have a basic idea, but not the details

to answer your question bhai, apart from question # 1-2, the rest of my answers would be "no"

Here lot of people seem to have inside contacts.. why not no one seem to know the reality of used hardware, we received in exchange of being coalition partners.

another thing, If we know... EU countries pay dearly, to get rid of their surplus.

 

[KRAIT]

Pakistan "demands", UK changed the route.

LONDON: Britain’s Defense Secretary Philip Hammond said the UK has struck a deal with Uzbekistan to help bring back 4 billion pounds ($6.2 billion) of equipment from Afghanistan as operations drawn down.

Britain’s government has said UK troop numbers in Afghanistan will fall from around 9,000 currently to about 5,200 by the end of 2013.

Hammond told lawmakers Wednesday that the UK has struck a deal with Uzbekistan because the only current transit route for equipment _ through Pakistan _ ”would be hard pressed to meet the capacity demands” of the drawdown, which for Britain involves bringing home about 2,500 vehicles and 6,500 storage containers.

Under the arrangement, some 450,000 pounds ($699,700) of surplus equipment _ Land Rover spare parts and Leyland DAF trucks _ will be ”gifted” to Uzbekistan.


UK to bring Afghan equipment home via Uzbekistan | World | DAWN.COM

 

[Edevelop]

UK to bring Afghan equipment home via Uzbekistan | World | DAWN.COMPakistan "demands", UK changed the route.

LONDON: Britain’s Defense Secretary Philip Hammond said the UK has struck a deal with Uzbekistan to help bring back 4 billion pounds ($6.2 billion) of equipment from Afghanistan as operations drawn down.

Britain’s government has said UK troop numbers in Afghanistan will fall from around 9,000 currently to about 5,200 by the end of 2013.

Hammond told lawmakers Wednesday that the UK has struck a deal with Uzbekistan because the only current transit route for equipment _ through Pakistan _ ”would be hard pressed to meet the capacity demands” of the drawdown, which for Britain involves bringing home about 2,500 vehicles and 6,500 storage containers.

Under the arrangement, some 450,000 pounds ($699,700) of surplus equipment _ Land Rover spare parts and Leyland DAF trucks _ will be ”gifted” to Uzbekistan.

Well U.K is one of the countries part of NATO. But there are plenty more out there who are willing to give up. Last i heard Uzbekistan was negotiating with the U.S. Perhaps they were declined....
Its good chance for Pakistan. U.S has better weapons as compared to U.K and they have made it clear that they want to get rid of them.

 

[KRAIT]

Well U.K is one of the countries part of NATO. But there are plenty more out there who are willing to give up. Last i heard Uzbekistan was negotiating with the U.S. Perhaps they were declined....
Its good chance for Pakistan. U.S has better weapons as compared to U.K and they have made it clear that they want to get rid of them.

Still I think that the weapons they offer, won't be that important and there will always be spare parts problem.
I would rather suggest that Pakistan should buy new weapons and equipment from China which would be less costly, of course more than second hand price of US equipment. but they won't have to worry about spares.

 

[Edevelop]

Still I think that the weapons they offer, won't be that important and there will always be spare parts problem.
I would rather suggest that Pakistan should buy new weapons and equipment from China which would be less costly, of course more than second hand price of US equipment. but they won't have to worry about spares.

Yaar when we were under sanctions, we had trouble finding spares for sophisticated weapons such as F-16s. Just to give you an example. Something that costed us $100 was replicated in Gujranwala at the cost of $2. I don't mean to exagerate but the point is we went domestic. As time passed we went on creating Mirage Rebuilding Factory and then on to make JF-17with 50-50 partnership with China.

It looks extremely difficult now to think about Eurofighters or A-10, considering the fact that they are expensive, less sold, and Pakistan already has commitment for something else. Tanks, Howitzers, Armored Vehicles looks more promising for Pakistan to get as it would cost the U.S more to ship than to build. Being Second hand, thats one step ahead.

 

[muse]

Krait

There is in all the thread(s), I challenge you to negate, the assumption that Pakistan will remain fertile ground for extremists.

Notice how few are willing to challenge that assumption - they don't even know where to start - the notion that the West cannot be anything but hostile is met with the notion that Muslim majority countries (Gulf satraps and the territory they manage, by definition are not countries) are nothing but a long term trouble -- really a narrative of and between extremes,

If Pakistan can give up radial Islam, things can change very quickly but now there is another condition, "Pakistan must also give up China -- It's next to impossible for this to happen - and so dialogue of and between extremes is where we will be for some time to come.

 

[KRAIT]

@muse Sir, Corruption slows the economic growth, Security failure stagnates and then reduce growth rate.

Point is that any country can grow even with Corruption. China and India are examples in front of Pakistan. But without security, no thing can improve.

People here appreciate Weapons not Wits. Security can be achieved only if their is social-economic security and vice versa. Pakistan doesn't need these weapons in these economic tough times, they need to invest in damage control and listen to grievances of the people in troubled region.

For stopping terrorism, Pakistan first needs to reduce terrorist attacks and unemployment, poverty in the troubled region. Invest in education. Give the youth an alternative of income source and a different goal for life other than religion.

Pakistan has enough weapons to kill every single terrorist in Pakistan and Afghanistan. It will cause loss of lives and property. But, its happening anyway.

Pakistan should now cooperate with Afghanistan, China and India to help them out economically assuring them that they will get rid of nemesis of terrorism in this region which is blocking our growth.

India don't want war with Pakistan. Afghanistan don't want war with Pakistan. China wants stable region for its economic growth.

It has come to Survival of the nation. People just blame Govt. here but no one raises questions against the Armed Forces. If Armed forces can't provide security, how will economic growth will happen.

People want a different govt. but if security situation worsens, a good govt. can't do everything.

As for China factor, they are good businessmen. They need Pakistan for strategic purpose but India for economic purpose. Even they have given up hopes from Pakistan and now extending hands to India for much better relations. God knows what will happen if China limits its support to Pakistan.

 

[muse]

God knows what will happen if China limits its support to Pakistan.

I don't know any Pakistanis thinking this one through. Maybe some one will think of "Demanding" that Pakistan be saved, yet again.

 

[KRAIT]

I don't know any Pakistanis thinking this one through. Maybe some one will think of "Demanding" that Pakistan be saved, yet again.

Sir, I am worried about my country and Afghanistan. Don't know what will happen after 2014 pull-out.

I personally think that India should ask US, China, Russia, France and UK, all to make pressure on Pakistan that no terrorist is sent to our country otherwise we will cancel the deals with whom who don't support us and pressurize Pakistan.

India should use its economy as deterrent. All Five Nations of SC has billions of dollars worth deals with India and all want to increase trade with us. We should start using Economy as Weapon even more.

 

[muse]

I am worried about my country and Afghanistan. Don't know what will happen after 2014 pull-out.

I personally think that India should ask US, China, Russia, France and UK, all to make pressure on Pakistan that no terrorist is sent to our country otherwise we will cancel the deals with whom who don't support us and pressurize Pakistan.

India should use its economy as deterrent. All Five Nations of SC has billions of dollars worth deal with India and all want to increase trade with US. We should start using Economy as Weapon even more.

Interesting idea for a thread?

 

[KRAIT]

Interesting idea for a thread?

Sir I am strong supporter of using Economy and our population size as a weapon.

With largest number of Young population, Growing Middle Class, Increasing Education, Largest English speaking population, Millions of Engineers, Doctors etc, Biggest Entertainment industry etc. provides a great leverage to India to use it for any problem we face from external or internal sources.

In a world of 7 billion people, with 1.2 billion people in just one Country, I think we can use this for faster growth and pushing hostile countries for peace by indirectly forcing our Trading Partners to deliver the peace.

I hope you start one thread on discussing this aspect of Diplomacy and Deterrence.

Kindly start this in Jnr. TT club.