Pakistan demands apology over drone strike

[twoplustwoisfour]

@Agno: The problem is that the Army and Government should be seen to be representatives of Pakistani people, not American stooges, which they are being perceived as.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

if these are the concessions, than shame on GOP & PA.

what a big concession we got by supposedly convincing American terrorists to limit cia operations, i mean why limit and why not totally end.

and the poor targeted air strike will give us the gift of potential 50 suicide bombers, will you still complain abt extremism?

Hey, I am just pointing out that were the Army not as influential as it is, we would not have gotten even these concessions, and the Ppp would have released Davis with full immunity and probably not even obtained any compensation for the families of the victims since the us tone in the beginning was aggressive, insulting and arrogant, and they were strongly pushing the line that Davis acted in self defence.

Hence my argument that why blame the Army when all it did was follow the Gop position.

 

[LeGenD]

That would be the result of a poorly targeted air strike, but as of yet there is nothing to indicate that concessions involved Pakistani control over drone operations in Pakistan, something which I believe Pakistan should now strongly demand. Reported concessions supposedly on limiting Davis like cia activity in Pakistan.

People here need to realize that war in afghanistan was bound to affect us. Main reasons are:

• Our involvement in state of affairs of Afghanistan.
• No effort in establishing the writ of state in Tribal regions for a long time.

We are paying the price of accomodating Taliban and its cohorts.

Even the military top brass lacked strategic vision. The TTP is actually a by-product of years of unchecked expansion of gun culture and brain-washing of poor Pakistani masses in the provinces bordering Afghanistan in Madarassahs by Taliban sympathisers. The military top brass came to its senses after 9/11 event.

The Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) was formed as an umbrella group that would enable the numerous pro-Taliban groups operating in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) and Khyber Pukhtoonkhwa (formerly the NWFP) of Pakistan to co-ordinate their activities and consolidate their growing influence in the region. The formation of the TTP was announced in a statement on 14 December 2007. However, the individual groups that constitute the TTP - most notably the Tehrik-e-Nefaz-e-Shariat-Mohammadi (TNSM) in Swat - had existed for varying amounts of time prior to this date. The TTP was founded by Baitullah Mehsud, who served as the overall emir of the TTP, and the commander of TTP forces in South Waziristan, until his death on 23 August 2009 from injuries sustained in a United States drone missile strike on 5 August. The group's shura (council) on 22 August selected the TTP's commander in Orakzai, Kurram and Khyber agencies, Hakimullah Mehsud, as Baitullah's replacement. Hakimullah was himself reported killed in a drone strike in Pasalkot in North Waziristan on 14 January 2010. Although Pakistani Minister of the Interior Rehman Malik asserted in February that he had "credible information" that Hakimullah had died of wounds inflicted in the strike, his death was continually denied by the TTP and could not be independently confirmed. Furthermore, Hakimullah appeared in a video released by the TTP's media wing, Umar Studios, on 3 May. While it was not possible to independently verify the date of filming, in the video Hakimullah asserted that the date was.

More details here: http://www..com/articles/-World-Insurgency-and-Terrorism/Tehrik-eTaliban-Pakistan-TTP-Pakistan.html

Now suddenly some so-called enlightened Pakistani people (who have no clue of what is going on in provinces bordering Afghanistan) find it baffling that why US drone attacks are taking place in those territories. They consider it is as an attack on Pakistan's sovereignty. However, it should be realized that the brain-washed fanatics in those regions deserve such treatement. These guys give shelter to extremist elements in their homes, and support them. And when their homes are blown up, they cry for injustice.

Pak tribal regions are split up between Taliban sympathisers and moderates. This is the reason that US accuses Pakistan of harboring extremist elements from Afghanistan. Here is an example: 'Poisonous snakes in Pak backyard': US

I do sympathise with cause of moderate Tribal lashkars who are trying to defeat TTP and similar groups. Here is a good article in this regard: Anti-Taliban tribal militia leader assassinated in Pakistan's northwest - The Long War Journal

However, these tribal lashkar should allow security forces to assist them against TTP and similar groups. In this manner, they will be less prone to get attacked by US drones.

Tribes unwilling to cooperate with the military

The problems with Pakistan's tribal resistance are complicated by the tribes' unwillingness to cooperate with the government and the military. "We keep the government away," a senior tribal leader in Lakki Marwat told Geo News last fall. This sentiment was echoed by the Shangla tribes in May, as well as in Dir, Buner, and elsewhere in northwestern Pakistan.

The tribes fear that cooperation with the government will further turn the Taliban and sympathetic tribes against them. "If we became part of the government they would become an excuse, a liability, a rallying cry against us," the Lakki Marwat tribal leader said. Similar sentiments were expressed by Buner tribal leaders earlier this week. This attitude prevents the military from providing the needed security to oppose massed Taliban attacks.

This is from 2007. Not sure, if situation has changed significantly by now.

Pakistan army needs to launch an operation in North Waziristan to dislodge Taliban remnants from there. If we will continue to shelter Afghan Taliban elements, the discord between US and Pakistan will grow, which is not good for us.

This is the right time for Pakistan to end the menance of terrorism and extremism for once and all. This is in the best interest of Pakistan and also for the other parties involved.

In addition, Pakistani society should come to terms with the ground realities. The sooner we do, the better for us. We should stop putting too much faith on conspiracy theories. These theories only confuse the masses and are promoted by those elements who want to disturb civil order in Pakistan. US will not be our enemy, unless we would want it to be.

We are paying the price of our own JAHALAT and SINS. Resenting US and other devils will not help us. Allah Almighty will help us only when we will correct ourselves. Otherwise, this nation will sink.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

@Agno: The problem is that the Army and Government should be seen to be representatives of Pakistani people, not American stooges, which they are being perceived as.

Then pressure should be put on the Gop, not the Army, since it is the Gop that should take the lead in formulating an aggressive foreign policy, not the Army. The Army should merely follow the Gop, as it did in this case for the most part.

The reason why many Pakistanis have not protested the traditional influence of the Army on foreign and nuclear policy is because they believe the Army will take an aggressive stand unlike the politicians, but this arrangement is unconstitutional, and Pakistanis need to start demanding their elected representatives to take aggressive positions on nuclear and foreign policy, or kick them out.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Hey, I am just pointing out that were the Army not as influential as it is, we would not have gotten even these concessions, and the Ppp would have released Davis with full immunity and probably not even obtained any compensation for the families of the victims since the us tone in the beginning was aggressive, insulting and arrogant, and they were strongly pushing the line that Davis acted in self defence.

Hence my argument that why blame the Army when all it did was follow the Gop position.

Agnos... this is just shifting the blame on others... I m seeing this happening now in the Pakistani media... A PPP jiyala is screaming and blaming the courts and PML N... PML N is blaming the federal government... People are blaming government and the army... some militant secularists are blaming Islam... Terminal X (possibly ISI) is thanking the nation for bringing America down to a level where they had to accept Islamic law to release their agent... (that was the best one so far)...

Raymod Davis killed two people in broad day light with an unlicensed weapon and has been set free having a great laugh at Pakistan!!!

and the tribesmen may God bless their innocence...

Tribal elders declare Jihad against US

 

[LeGenD]

Agnos... this is just shifting the blame on others... I m seeing this happening now in the Pakistani media... A PPP jiyala is screaming and blaming the courts and PML N... PML N is blaming the federal government... People are blaming government and the army... some militant secularists are blaming Islam... Terminal X (possibly ISI) is thanking the nation for bringing America down to a level where they had to accept Islamic law to release their agent... (that was the best one so far)...

Raymod Davis killed two people in broad day light with an unlicensed weapon and has been set free having a great laugh at Pakistan!!!

and the tribesmen may God bless their innocence...

Tribal elders declare Jihad against US

Pakistan is victim of its internal problems. Our nation is internally divided in to different factions. These factions are engaged in mud-slinging at each other. And your examples fall under this scenario.

Pakistani people have yet to come to terms with ground realities around them.

Good luck with jihad against US. Last time, thousands of Pakistani went in to Afghanistan for assisting the Taliban forces in 2001 despite state warnings. Want to know what happened to them?

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Then pressure should be put on the Gop, not the Army, since it is the Gop that should take the lead in formulating an aggressive foreign policy, not the Army. The Army should merely follow the Gop, as it did in this case for the most part.

The reason why many Pakistanis have not protested the traditional influence of the Army on foreign and nuclear policy is because they believe the Army will take an aggressive stand unlike the politicians, but this arrangement is unconstitutional, and Pakistanis need to start demanding their elected representatives to take aggressive positions on nuclear and foreign policy, or kick them out.

Knowing the historical influence of Army in Pakistani politics and foreign policy, I find it difficult to believe that Kayani and Co have decided to blindly tow the line of the civilian government on this matter. The fact remains that if Kayani had done something about this situation, PPP would not have been able to stop him. That leads me to believe that the Army is in cohorts with the civilian government on this issue.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Pakistan is victim of its internal problems. Our nation is internally divided in to different factions. These factions are engaged in mud-slinging at each other. And your examples fall under this scenario.

Pakistani people have yet to come to terms with ground realities around them.

Good luck with jihad against US. Last time, thousands of Pakistani went in to Afghanistan for assisting the Taliban forces in 2001 despite state warnings. Want to know what happened to them?

All their anger is going to come out in Pakistan... thats what I m trying to say... they cant do jihad against the US... they dont have the authority to declare jihad either...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agnos... this is just shifting the blame on others... I m seeing this happening now in the Pakistani media... A PPP jiyala is screaming and blaming the courts and PML N... PML N is blaming the federal government... People are blaming government and the army... some militant secularists are blaming Islam... Terminal X (possibly ISI) is thanking the nation for bringing America down to a level where they had to accept Islamic law to release their agent... (that was the best one so far)...

Raymod Davis killed two people in broad day light with an unlicensed weapon and has been set free having a great laugh at Pakistan!!!

and the tribesmen may God bless their innocence...

Tribal elders declare Jihad against US

How is this shifting the blame? Do you or do you not agree that constitutionally the Army should follow what government orders it to do? And if you do agree that the Army should follow Gop dictates, why criticize the Army for doing what it is supposed to do in this instance?

 

[LeGenD]

All their anger is going to come out in Pakistan... thats what I m trying to say... they cant do jihad against the US... they dont have the authority to declare jihad either...

Check my detailed response to AgNoStIc MuSliM above. It is a snapshot of ground realitiies in Pakistan, which people fail to understand.

 

[Leader]

oh really ???

Control yourself. The Pakistan Army is not going around making videos of innocent civilians being beheaded or bombing markets, shrines, and funeral processions.

 

[MyPakistan1947]

Knowing the historical influence of Army in Pakistani politics and foreign policy, I find it difficult to believe that Kayani and Co have decided to blindly tow the line of the civilian government on this matter. The fact remains that if Kayani had done something about this situation, PPP would not have been able to stop him. That leads me to believe that the Army is in cohorts with the civilian government on this issue.

nobody cares what it leads u to believe. worry about your own army in kashmir.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Knowing the historical influence of Army in Pakistani politics and foreign policy, I find it difficult to believe that Kayani and Co have decided to blindly tow the line of the civilian government on this matter. The fact remains that if Kayani had done something about this situation, PPP would not have been able to stop him. That leads me to believe that the Army is in cohorts with the civilian government on this issue.

Regardless of historical influence, in this case, as you said, the Army did what the Gop wanted to do, which is how the Army should act constitutionally. Pakistanis are mad because they expected the Army to act unconstitutionally and force the Gop to take a different position. Imo, the Army should be criticized if it had forced the Gop to release Davis, not because it agreed with the Gop, which is how things should be run in a democracy.

 

[AstanoshKhan]

Utter nonsense - given the number of terrorist attacks before Army operations in Swath and Fata, and the spread of barbaric Taliban controlbefore those operations, it is obvious to any rational individual that the Army has saved countless lives and the freedoms of Pakistanis from Islamic extremistsand terrorists.

Keep whining - the situation is not getting any better as these are the bastard-children of Holy-ISI and a bastard always remain a bastard - to kill his father one day and his real children. Come to Peshawar Central Jail where Sufi Muhammad has been kept with life luxury available to him. Why he has been kept there and why has he not been hanged yet - proves the father's love for his bastard children. It is to show it to the world Taliban exists and unleash them onto your own people and in return cash bundles of Dollars. That's pathetic man.

Pak Army is like the guard of the house.. while on duty, he sees someone coming in and destroying parts of the house yet he sits & watches and simply says.. this is not good and the attackers should apologise. It's such a shame

 

[MyPakistan1947]

for all the ppl who are blaming pak army, what do u want the Pak army to do? shall they let all the terrorists run around freely in pakistan?