Pakistan demands apology over drone strike

[Elmo]

I have yet to read a new argument. The quality of posts is extremely poor, everyone is repeating themselves.

Take some time off and come back.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Include Kayani and Pasha in this list too...

Why? They are not the ones ordering terrorist suicide attacks against civilians.

I haven't seen Kiyani or Pasha in a video standing by and smiling while ordering the beheading / execution of innocents, like Hakimullah Mehsud did with the execution of Col Imam.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So ban me from this petty forum... freedom of speech gai bhar main... if you dont want to listen to someone telling you why something is happening then fine by me... close your ears and close your eyes...

My eyes and ears are open. I have seen the brutal execution videos by the Taliban and other Islamic extremist (such as the one of the execution of Cold Imam, and another in which over a dozen innocent men an women were bound and gagged in a line, and a single terrorist went through and beheaded all of them with a blunt knife, and yet others showing these swine brainwashing little children into executing innocents and carrying out suicide bombings), for it to be obvious that Pay Army ops against extremists and militants in Fata are essential, and not, as you put it, a case of 'killing their own people'. When the Army has made mistakes, it has apologized and offered compensation after an investigation, as Kiyani did after an incorrect airstrip based on flawed Intel.

You and everyone here knows that I do not support the Taliban and never will...

Then don't call Pay Army ops against terrorist swine 'the Army killing its own people', or compare Kiyani and Pasha to terrorist like obl or Mehsud. Merely stating that you do not support terrorism is not sufficient when you implicitly do support it with statements such as those mentioned.

I dont make it a point about hiding my affiliations (unlike many others on this forum)... I have nothing to fear and at least I have a clear concious... can you say the same about Pak Army today?? Why do you think people are showing this rage and anger towards Pak Army?? Perhaps it is time to get their act right... before its too late...

Getting their act together is for the Gop Ppp to do, not the Army. Were the Ppp doing a better job at governing and managing the economy, they would not have needed to capitulate to the us for the sake of aid and economic support. The only thing the Army should do to 'get its act together' is to remove itself form influencing certain foreign policy issues and the nuclear program, though it should be a slow and steady shift.

All of you have to keep in mind that were the Army not influential and completely subservient to the go, Davis would have been released much earlier. It is because the Army has influence that the Ppp did not act to release Davis right away and grant him blanket immunity, and because of Army influence that the Isi got concessions from the cia.

Were the Army not influential the Davis would have been released days after his arrest with full immunity granted by the Ppp and cia operations would have continued unhindered. Get some perspective people.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Accountable to whom bro Agnos?? Army accountable to PPP government?? Oh please yaar... you are way above that...

You are missing the point, read my last post as well - if the Army was completely subservient to reelected government and had no influence, Davis would still have been released, but likely much earlier and with full immunity, and cia operations would have continued unhindered. Because of their influence we were at least able to force the us to make concessions.

---------- Post added at 06:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 AM ----------

Thread opened

 

[Abu Basit]

Why? They are not the ones ordering terrorist suicide attacks against civilians.

I haven't seen Kiyani or Pasha in a video standing by and smiling while ordering the beheading / execution of innocents, like Hakimullah Mehsud did with the execution of Col Imam.

the issue is not if kiyani or pasha were standing in a video (plz read the title of the thread and stop being off topic for which you guyz are give warning to others), the issue is, if this army is ours or Americans. i'm a tax payer and i expect my army to protect Pakistanis from american attacks. i don't give taxes whose major portion goes to defence budget just to hear condemnation from the army chief which has no worth in american eyes.

and plz get out of this mindset that anyone criticizing Pak army is a supporter of TTP/AlQaeda.


Disclaimer: i do not support AlQaeda-TTP-LJ & all the other blah blah groups funded by American terrorists.

 

[Abu Basit]

You are missing the point, read my last post as well - if the Army was completely subservient to reelected government and had no influence, Davis would still have been released, but likely much earlier and with full immunity, and cia operations would have continued unhindered. Because of their influence we were at least able to force the us to make concessions.

---------- Post added at 06:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 AM ----------

Thread opened

concessions?

like the one killing 50+ tribals.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

the issue is not if kiyani or pasha were standing in a video (plz read the title of the thread and stop being off topic for which you guyz are give warning to others), the issue is, if this army is ours or Americans. i'm a tax payer and i expect my army to protect Pakistanis from american attacks. i don't give taxes whose major portion goes to defence budget just to hear condemnation from the army chief which has no worth in american eyes.

As a taxpayer you should expect the Army to follow the constitution, and therefore follow the government of Pakistan. So what did the Gop, led by the ppp, want to do with Davis?

It wanted to release him, the ppp even fired the foreign minister Qureshi to remove a roadblock to releasing Davis, the Army did not force the ppp to release him. So the Army supported the Gop position, as a taxpayer should expect. Hold the Gop accountable in the elections so that the next one shows some spine.

and plz get out of this mindset that anyone criticizing Pak army is a supporter of TTP/AlQaeda.


Disclaimer: i do not support AlQaeda-TTP-LJ & all the other blah blah groups funded by American terrorists.

I am not suggesting that those criticizing the Army over the Davis issue are terrorist supporters, most of the Tt and mod have done the same, but I am criticizing those using the Davis issue to undermine military operations against terrorists and comparing Kiyani and Pasta to obl and Mehsud as implicitly supporting terrorism.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

concessions?

like the one killing 50+ tribals.

That would be the result of a poorly targeted air strike, but as of yet there is nothing to indicate that concessions involved Pakistani control over drone operations in Pakistan, something which I believe Pakistan should now strongly demand. Reported concessions supposedly on limiting Davis like cia activity in Pakistan.

 

[Abu Basit]

As a taxpayer you should expect the Army to follow the constitution, and therefore follow the government of Pakistan. So what did the Gop, led by the ppp, want to do with Davis?

It wanted to release him, the ppp even fired the foreign minister Qureshi to remove a roadblock to releasing Qureshi, the Army did not force the ppp to release him. So the Army supported the Gop position, as a taxpayer should expect. Hold the Gop accountable in the elections so that the next one shows some spine.

following constitution, well, lets wake up to the reality and we all know how much constitution our army and politicians follow.

i simply expect the army of Pakistan to protect the lives,honor & dignity of Pakistanis. Right now on the ground, Kiyani-Pasha are being treated like we treat politicians.

and how do you expect us to hold the GOP accountable in the elections, are you telling us to vote PML, MQM, ANP~ what difference will it make?

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

the issue is not if kiyani or pasha were standing in a video (plz read the title of the thread and stop being off topic for which you guyz are give warning to others), the issue is, if this army is ours or Americans. i'm a tax payer and i expect my army to protect Pakistanis from american attacks. i don't give taxes whose major portion goes to defence budget just to hear condemnation from the army chief which has no worth in american eyes.

and plz get out of this mindset that anyone criticizing Pak army is a supporter of TTP/AlQaeda.


Disclaimer: i do not support AlQaeda-TTP-LJ & all the other blah blah groups funded by American terrorists.

Well said...

 

[AstanoshKhan]

And this Pakistani Army is saving your useless @ss against your beloved terrorists from bombing your useless @ss. These army men sacrifice their own lives so you can sleep at night.
Please have some respect for these heroes.

No one buys this useless rhetoric of Pak Army saving people's @SS. If you can't save people on the border, you will miserably fail to save people deep inside the country and that too having your hand with the intruders.

 

[Abu Basit]

That would be the result of a poorly targeted air strike, but as of yet there is nothing to indicate that concessions involved Pakistani control over drone operations in Pakistan, something which I believe Pakistan should now strongly demand. Reported concessions supposedly on limiting Davis like cia activity in Pakistan.

if these are the concessions, than shame on GOP & PA.

what a big concession we got by supposedly convincing American terrorists to limit cia operations, i mean why limit and why not totally end.

and the poor targeted air strike will give us the gift of potential 50 suicide bombers, will you still complain abt extremism?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

following constitution, well, lets wake up to the reality and we all know how much constitution our army and politicians follow.

If the families were not forced into pardoning Davis, then the Gop did nothing unconstitutional. The Army, constitutionally, was supposed to do exactly what the Gop.told it to do, which it apparently did in this case, so why blame it here?

i simply expect the army of Pakistan to protect the lives,honor & dignity of Pakistanis. Right now on the ground, Kiyani-Pasha are being treated like we treat politicians.

Again, constitutionally the Army can only follow Gop orders, which it apparently did in this case. Don't blame the Army, take it up with your elected representatives and tell them to have more spine next time.

and how do you expect us to hold the GOP accountable in the elections, are you telling us to vote PML, MQM, ANP~ what difference will it make?

Start your own grassroots political movement and bold support amongst the masses and join up with like minded politicians and individuals to offer analternative. Don't blame the Army for a lack of choices, if a majority of Pakistanis are truly disgusted with the current political actors, then it should be no problem gathering support for an alternative political party.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No one buys this useless rhetoric of Pak Army saving people's @SS. If you can't save people on the border, you will miserably fail to save people deep inside the country and that too having your hand with the intruders.

Utter nonsense - given the number of terrorist attacks before Army operations in Swath and Fata, and the spread of barbaric Taliban controlbefore those operations, it is obvious to any rational individual that the Army has saved countless lives and the freedoms of Pakistanis from Islamic extremistsand terrorists.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

That would be the result of a poorly targeted air strike, but as of yet there is nothing to indicate that concessions involved Pakistani control over drone operations in Pakistan, something which I believe Pakistan should now strongly demand. Reported concessions supposedly on limiting Davis like cia activity in Pakistan.

See this is the whole problem here... Pak Army is not realizing what people have been saying to them from the very first day (yes I m not the only one)... that the real reason for the increase in terrorism in Pakistan are these drone strikes... They have killed hundreds of innocent people and despite this they continue to happen... why... because the people who are dying are not Pak Army Generals or their family members but rather poor tribesmen... If these people think for one second, it does nt require great genius to understand this... Pak Army punished America by blocking their supplies for three days when three soldiers were killed by American helicopter... yet hundreds of innocent people have died and to our Army this continues to be a sort of necassary evil... uffff yaar... how should I make these people understand... and if they dont understand then the common man on the ground has no resort except to curse the Pak Army... and after that they start calling us TTP (not talking about anyone here... I have recently been given this grand khitab by none other than the team of Zaid Hamid!!!)... I was personally monitoring Zaid Hamid facebook page when the Davis release news came and each and everyone amongst his fans was asking the same thing... why did the Army betray us?? and the kind of disconnect from the reality and sentiments of the people on the ground that these people have... in their BrassTacks volunteer group on google, they were telling each other that all these people who are saying these things about Pak Army are CIA cyber troopers!!!

Imagine for one second if your own brother, sister, mother or child were killed in such drone attack? No matter what the excuse is... will you ever look at the Pak Army in the same manner?? an Army which is actually a very well off sector of Pakistan's society (trust me I have plenty of relatives in Pak Army and I have seen the quality of life that they have in a poor country like Pakistan)... if drone strikes are not giving enough accuracy and desired results than spare us this cowardly stance of all this bloodshed being a necassary evil... we need an Army chief who does something more than condem... otherwise might as well roll back the whole Army business and lets make a deal with the Indians... they want Aman Ki Asha... let us negotiate with them over that... Allow us to keep weapons for our security and assure us that no further drone attacks will take place in our tribal areas... then let the Indians come and unite Pakistan with India... If Pak Army continues the status quo then let me assure everyone here that this will not be allowed... zulm ki had ho gai yaar... sabr ka paymana labraiz ho gya...