Pakistan deals with its devils

[The_Pacifist]

Well, anyone with a shred of honesty would acknowledge the disastrous effects that the war has had on the US and the world. As a result the US economy has been badly affected. Who could have thought that the US would be borrowing money from China to aid their wars? The wars have had an inverse impact on US economy. Not to mention the human cost factor.

One wonders what the world would be like if the Bush/Cheney debacle never would have occurred. They lined their own pockets at the expense of everyone else, both in the US and the rest of the world.

The_Pacifist.

 

[The_Pacifist]

Oh Jee,

Wow---millions more were killed by the christian american army---the wealth, history, artifacts of the nation looted, thousands women, girls and boyz raped by sex starved american soldiers---the mental sickness of the american soldiers truly came into the fore front by the pictures from abu ghraib---those pictures and others thatwere used for pornograpgy were so detestable that Rummy refused them to be shown in public ever.

Even this seargent who raped the 14 years old iraqi girl and then killed all his family members with the support of his team is alomost off the hook---this is the badge of honor of the u s forces---. These troops and hundreds of others like them roamewd the city and country side streets looking for girls young boyz and women to rape----thousands and thousand were raped and then killed in fake encounters---only a couple of them got caught----.

This was all done by the great christian army---holding the bible in one hand, reciting the message of christ---the soldiers of christ murdering people who had done nothing to them.

Agreed. The Abu Ghraib photos should all be released. There are a lot of Americans that believe that. Even Obama pledged to release them before he was elected, but then changed his mind after he saw them. It's a shame that the US will never live down, and a burden for the World to make sure the US never forgets.

Agreed again. However, this same thing can be said of many other religions too.

This was all done by the great ________ army---holding the _____ in one hand, reciting the message of ________---the soldiers of ________ murdering people who had done nothing to them.

But, hasn't that been the problem throughout human history? How many people must die because someone believes one thing, and others believe something else? Don't humans ever learn? There have always been different cultures, religions, etc., but we lack the tolerance to leave others alone.

The_Pacifist

 

[The_Pacifist]

Hi Truthseeker,

I don't want to get into this issue---but have you ever seen the news conference in los angeles after the LAPD has killed some innocent person or an innocent person has been beaten sh-itless---do you remember seeing those nice looking police officials---possibly females---mostly latina females or black females who come out and calmly play things down---and then some honest officers come forward as well---we are all good people---just a misunderstanding---it just only happened once kind of stuff.

At that time the face of the A--hole is not shown, because everyone knows that he exists and does what he wants to do---and the good people would come out to cover him---it never changes.

That looks like a picture from an Apple ad. Yeah, sometimes the police aren't very nice people, and should be looking for other jobs. These types of situations happen all the time in the US, as well as the rest of the world. Look at Mexico, for instance, and Iran.

Of course all Americans aren't good people. But they all aren't bad either, are they? Aren't some people in Pakistan good and others bad? Isn't it like that everywhere, with every group? Didn't you go to school with fellow Pakistani's that you just didn't get a long with?

The_Pacifist.

 

[The_Pacifist]

I'm baffled at the way these "nice" Americans have been taken for a ride during Bush tenure. Not once, but twice did this utterly incompetent man get to rule over these "nice" people. By the way, with the votes of these people. First their courageous leader went to war with a nation on the false pretence that they were supposedly in possession of WMDs. When they couldn't find those WMDs and in the process burnt half of the country to smithereens they paused for a moment and decided to go after war-torn Afghanistan. Today, we have the same "nice" people (with either short memories or worse vile intent) that are willing to go to any extreme lengths to defend and justify those horrible war crimes committed by the superpower. They will use any means of justification to either mask or simply deny the war crimes. Well, the truth is bitter and can never be hidden.

There are a lot of people here that are baffled by this too. By the way, the votes in the American election don't count directly. It goes by the Electoral College. This is often a point of confusion, but wiki has a half-way decent article on it.

There were a lot of people here in the US protesting the invasion of afg and Iraq. And, yes, we are still waiting for Bush-Cheney to produce the WMD's that Iraq supposedly had. Did you read about the food-for-oil program between the UN and Iraq? It's very interesting. After I read about it, I realized that Saddam was smarter than both Bush and Cheney, and I think when they caught onto it, they decided to invade because Saddam played them both for the fools that they are.

The_Pacifist.

 

[The_Pacifist]

Hi,

I don't like to make a personal remark, but you need to have a better understanding of war, an invading christian army and million killed as a result.

Sudan, somalia, yemen are of no comparison to this war in afg and iraq. This is a war forced by the self righteous born again christians, neo cons---this war has been started without any clear goals in mind and how to achieve those goals by millitary standards in the shortest possible time. This war was started without a clear picture of what happened when the target was located---this war was started without the proper resources put in place to ensnare the target.

This war has changed directions many a times to whatever is convenient to the u s of a. They couldn't complete one job---one simple job---the killer of 3000 americans disappeared through tora bora right in front of a miniscule number to spec forces personale and no further efforts were put in force to delay his escape. Indeed the journalists knew where he was---there were more journalists at T B than american soldiers----isn't that a shame for the american generals( chullo bhar pani mein doob kar maer jaiy )

This war is full of deceit and deception by the americans---this war is full of incompetence of the leadership capabilities of the american war machine---this failure wil be the hallmark of shame for the american forces throughout the history of this world through centuries to come.

America can destroy pakistan, afg a thousand times over---but never will be able to change the words in the history books to come---this loss will show as the helo around the flag for centuries and milleniums.

Perhaps Bush-Cheney purposely let him get away, so they could continue with a build-up and full invasion. I believe that this has not been ruled out by anyone. However, it offends my sensibilities to think that Bush-Cheney are smart enough to think of such a plan. Then again, maybe the US military at that time was just too hesitant and/or incompetent to catch OBL at Tora Bora.

I'm not sure I understand the statement "this loss will show as the helo around the flag for centuries"... It might be a typo.

One thing I notice in reading these posts on this board is that they highlight the reasons we fight wars. People can't even be nice here, so there's no way people can be nice when guns and differences of opinion are involved.

There's too much extreme thinking, in my opinion. For example, people think that all members of Group ___ are evil and deserve to die. This can't possibly be true can it? If one country behaves badly and makes a mistake, whether intentional or unintentional, does that make all members of that country evil and unworthy of living?

I'm sorry if some people on this board feel that all Americans are evil. It simply isn't true, though. How many people here have actually visited American or met an American? I'm just curious about this. I've never been to Pakistan, but I have gone to school with people from there, as well as India. In fact, many of them stayed to work and live as engineers.

The_Pacifist.

 

[paritosh]

Dear Solomon2,

You have been reading the fairy tail written by George W Bush. Before American Invasion, there was absolute PEACE in Afghanistan as Taliban had captured more than 80% of territory and were in effective control of territory. There were NO drugs and poppy production had reduced to less then 4% of what it is at now. Pakistan and Afghanistan were living as border less states and Pakistan was host of more then 3 million Afghans who were half Pakistani and there was peace in Afghanistan, FATA, NWFP and Baluchistan like rest of the country. Go read some before making your next post.

Graphican...I hope you reply to this...
I ask a very simple question...what kind of people would not want to see any kind of development coming to their country...their land?
a farmer needs better farm equipment...better yield.
a fisherman needs better trawlers...better nets...better yield.
a house wife needs better brooms....better mops.
a student needs better books...computers.
the taliban stood for negative development.
getting hung by your thumbs...and public lynchings happening in your country when the rest of the world(including the islamic republic of Pakistan)were making progress...researching genetics and nuke tech.

the Afghans have a place in the 21st century...and it is not for any other country to benefit from...not even Pakistan.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Perhaps Bush-Cheney purposely let him get away, so they could continue with a build-up and full invasion.

More ever to keep supplying the deffence contracts to the companies with the money of ordinary americans ..So that their newly built arms could be tested and evaluated in a true theater of war .

I think the defeat is hard to swallow for the Americans . Unless they reach a state where soviet Union reached only then they might wake up . These wars have cost america huge in its international standing . Once countries could change their economic pollicies just over a one phone call but now the whole thing is falling like autmn leaves ... Just like the romans and the others the US too is going down..Allam Iqbal has said beauitifully in his verse

khuda se husn ne aik roz yeh sawal kia
jahan main kyun na mujhe tu ne lazawal kia

mila jawab k tasveer khana hai dunia
shab-e-daraz adam ka fasana hai dunia.

hui hai rang-e-takheer se jab namoud ic ki
wohi haseen hai haqiqat zawal hai jis ki

Would any body mind to translate it ...

 

[S-2]

"...There were NO drugs and poppy production had reduced to less then 4% of what it is at now."

Another ignorant fool repeating shop-worn myths.

Please read-

UNODC Afghan Opium Survey 2009-September, 2009

Please note the chart on page one. The taliban seized control of Afghanistan in 1996. In each succeeding year, opium cultivation by hectare INCREASED through 1999 (a then world record) before tailing slightly in 2000.

Today, opium is a minor factor in most of Afghanistan (see chart on page two). Only those provinces long the pashtu taliban heartland remain the issue-most notably Helmand and Kandahar. That's no coincidence.

Next I'm sure you'll be telling everybody about the dozens of Indian consulates in Afghanistan. It's your choice to wallow in falsehood when the facts speak plainly otherwise. I prefer not.

This has no legs. The taliban are Afghanistan's biggest drug and warlords. Quit peddling your fact-dissembling irhabist apologia if you don't mind.

Thanks.

 

[illuminatus]

^^ Wow, you must be a jolly man S-2! Opium and heroine are still the main export product of Afghanistan and will remain so in the future. Also, your NA friends are the biggest drug dealers on the planet. These people supply a staggering 90%+ heroine and opium to the world. Just because you're in bed with these monsters doesn't change that fact. In fact, the US army and so-called coalition partners are also heavily involved in the smuggling of drugs in that particular country. Afghanistan is a failed narco-state and nothing is going to change that I'm afraid.

 

[illuminatus]

It's a Guerrilla war, isn't it? If you notice, the Taliban took over afg by fighting a conventional war. They rolled in Kabul sitting on their tanks. However, when they faced the US military they switched to fight a Guerrilla war. Are the Taliban acting like cowards now? Perhaps they have read sun tzu.

Is suicide bombing cowardice or bravery?

The_Pacifist.

If you're assuming that I support the Taliban ideology you're wrong. I totally disagree with their methods and working ethics. The Taliban were programmed with the sole purpose to cause death and destruction during the Cold War. Whether they adopt guerilla tactics is irrelevant. The question that you should be posing is why the Taliban and the NA had the freedom to create havoc after the war? Why did the world and the US in particular turn a blind eye?

Having said that, it's clear that the US has ulterior motives for the region and they don't sweep it under the carpet so to speak. Therefore, it's very difficult to pinpoint who exactly is carrying out suicide carnage and at whose behest!

 

[illuminatus]

Yes and that truth is that 90% of the destruction and death that has happened in Iraq and in Afghanistan since September 11, 2001 has been done by Muslims, and mostly against other Muslims. Very little actual destruction and death has been done by the hands of the nice people of the USA. And THAT is the bitter truth. But, as my signature says: YOU can't handle it!

You can't hide your crimes with silly one liners. I can understand your frustration and bitterness, but that won't change the reality one bit. The world has seen the true face of US warmongering. First you massacred innocent people with indiscriminate napalm bombings in Vietnam. You massacred hundreds and thousands of innocent Iraqi's and Afghans with shock and awe brutality. Your latest invention for massacring is through drone missile attacks in which hundreds of innocent people have already lost their precious lives. Whether Muslims are involved in the killing of their own kind still doesn't justify the wrongdoing committed by the US. Yes, it's highly condemnable, but who supports such dictators in Islamic countries for their petty gains? Ever thought about that one? In fact, you proclaim to hold values such as human rights and democracy very dearly. Yet, your actions are quite the opposite. Well, those are only empty words and the world is a witness of that.

 

[MastanKhan]

I think that's about the most fatuous sentence I've ever read at PDF! Way to go, MastanKhan!

Hi,

It is okay if you feel that way---but it won't change anything in the pages of history books except in the u s of a where there will be a sanitized version----but I thankyou for using that word---it made my brains do a couple of flips to get to the meaning. Thanks.

 

[S-2]

Graphican is wrong. He doesn't know his facts about the taliban government and its past and present involvement with opium. He's no different than most here who prefer to believe falsehoods than openly proved truths.

The link is there to UNODC, as usual, by me. Please use it.

Now produce a link of comparable worth for this B.S.-

"In fact, the US army and so-called coalition partners are also heavily involved in the smuggling of drugs in that particular country."

Delusional.

Thanks.

 

[araz]

"...There were NO drugs and poppy production had reduced to less then 4% of what it is at now."

Another ignorant fool repeating shop-worn myths.

Please read-

UNODC Afghan Opium Survey 2009-September, 2009

Please note the chart on page one. The taliban seized control of Afghanistan in 1996. In each succeeding year, opium cultivation by hectare INCREASED through 1999 (a then world record) before tailing slightly in 2000.

Today, opium is a minor factor in most of Afghanistan (see chart on page two). Only those provinces long the pashtu taliban heartland remain the issue-most notably Helmand and Kandahar. That's no coincidence.

Next I'm sure you'll be telling everybody about the dozens of Indian consulates in Afghanistan. It's your choice to wallow in falsehood when the facts speak plainly otherwise. I prefer not.

This has no legs. The taliban are Afghanistan's biggest drug and warlords. Quit peddling your fact-dissembling irhabist apologia if you don't mind.

Thanks.

S2
While not denying what you are saying , on the same graph the trend post 2003 has shot up many folds as copmpared to 1998--2000. Any explanation to that and also the fact that the NATO has been sitting in Afghanistan since 2002?
Regards
Araz

 

[S-2]

Araz,

The trend lines REALLY shoot up at the 2005 mark. I find that period closely coincides with the taliban's full re-emergence in the war. I think that you can also see the effect of the Afghans, British and Canadians failing to place adequate forces in Kandahar and Helmand.

Having no nat'l army nor police is a problem, isn't it? Having a foreign force that provides inadequate numbers might be a problem too. You do know, btw, that the U.N. assigned the lead anti-narcotics role to Great Britain, don't you? Not America. We've had to take that over as well from the British.

Let me ask you a couple of questions- What are the national trends and those for Helmand since 2007 as indicated by UNODC? Up or down? Down...correct? How down in Helmand since 2007? Where are the taliban strongest and where have they traditionally derived their support? Kandahar and Helmand?

Thanks.