Pakistan coast-defence missile systems

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

There are rumors that Pakistan might cancel Chinese submarines contract,which are found to be inferior to Agosta
Class subs.Pakistan might go for German U 214 or ex- U 209 of Grman Nay.

Not likely as Pakistan cannot rely on or trust those nations. These rumours are probably disinformation. Chinese submarines are very close to reaching parity with their western counterparts.

 

[Mitro]

yes but are you making an assumption, a educated guess or are you aware of some information that we have a naval anti ship version of babur with 700km range with a seeker from a C602

My friend is former Navy captain he told me that their are working on long range CM for anti ship from submarine and land base launcher. He told me around 3 years ago so I think this is the same missile .

 

[MilSpec]

Traditionally, Local names had never been given to Foreign Equipments By Pakistan. So I am 99% sure It is Indigenous.

Btw Indigenous means Local Production of C-602 or some other one

Are you sure?

MBT 2000 > Al Khalid
Type 59 > Al Zarar
M113-A2-Mk.1 APC> Talha APC
Type 81 SPMRL > Azhar
CASC Rainbow CH-3> Burraq
AR-1 Missile >Barq
HJ8 > Baktar Shikan
SA-7 Grail > Anza Mk1
QW-1 MANPADS> Anza Mk2
QW-2 MANPADS> Anza MK III
Saab MFI-17 Supporter> PAC MFI-17 Mushshak
Supporter uprated MFI-395 >PAC Super Mushshak
WS-2 Weishi Rocket> Nasr
Nodong1> Ghauri
M11/DF11> Ghaznavi
Denel Raptor I glide bomb> H2 SOW
Denel Raptor II glide bomb> H4 SOW

 

[SQ8]

Are you sure?

MBT 2000 > Al Khalid
Type 59 > Al Zarar
M113-A2-Mk.1 APC> Talha APC
Type 81 SPMRL > Azhar
CASC Rainbow CH-3> Burraq
AR-1 Missile >Barq
HJ8 > Baktar Shikan
SA-7 Grail > Anza Mk1
QW-1 MANPADS> Anza Mk2
QW-2 MANPADS> Anza MK III
Saab MFI-17 Supporter> PAC MFI-17 Mushshak
Supporter uprated MFI-395 >PAC Super Mushshak
WS-2 Weishi Rocket> Nasr
Nodong1> Ghauri
M11/DF11> Ghaznavi
Denel Raptor I glide bomb> H2 SOW
Denel Raptor II glide bomb> H4 SOW

The Zarar is not the Type 59 per se. A closer comparison is the Type 59G.

The same goes for the differences in MBT-2000 and AK. A lot of small tinkering and changes do go into what is eventually used.

For e.g

This radio done by the NRTC in pakistan is

is exactly the same as this ASELSAN because it IS the same box and most components.

however, there are key changes under the box that make it unique to Pakistan and are designed in house.
So just because you dont see it on the surface, doesnt mean it isnt there.]

 

[باپ]

Plenty of isreali and other foreign tech goes into all Indian defense projects. Does that make them non indigenous?

 

[MilSpec]

The Zarar is not the Type 59 per se. A closer comparison is the Type 59G.

The same goes for the differences in MBT-2000 and AK. A lot of small tinkering and changes do go into what is eventually used.

For e.g

This radio done by the NRTC in pakistan is

is exactly the same as this ASELSAN because it IS the same box and most components.

however, there are key changes under the box that make it unique to Pakistan and are designed in house.
So just because you dont see it on the surface, doesnt mean it isnt there.]

Didn't you do some of it?

 

[nana41]

Unlikely, Chinese subs will give us freedom to have a say in how we eish to push their development snd customise the weapons so we can hit india with sea based nukes, plus half will be made in Pakistan.

We will get none of that with German subs plus we risk india's randi rona act in Europe which we dont have to worry about with china

Wickipedia regularly mentioned 8 Chinese subs as "under construction"before listing other equipment of Pak Navy.That mention is no longer there.In week end tv programme " Khaber ye hai" co-host of Mr Haroon Rashid mentioned a letter of termination of this programme is on the way,Hence the rumor.

 

[Zarvan]

Wickipedia regularly mentioned 8 Chinese subs as "under construction"before listing other equipment of Pak Navy.That mention is no longer there.In week end tv programme " Khaber ye hai" co-host of Mr Haroon Rashid mentioned a letter of termination of this programme is on the way,Hence the rumor.

@Rashid Mahmood @fatman17 Is it true guys ?

 

[Genghis khan1]

Multiple sources suggest "Zarb" range is 400 km. Most likely a modified version of C-602.

One test and inducted into the Navy?

Seems plausible that this isn't no indigenous after all.

 

[fatman17]

@Rashid Mahmood @fatman17 Is it true guys ?

construction of subs has not started as yet.

 

[SQ8]

Didn't you do some of it?

Yeah, and other little tid bits.

Point being, there is a lot more that goes under the surface. Although most of the Anti-Tank and SAMS are direct copies except for the later batches Anza-II' s and III's having some stinger ideas.

Multiple sources suggest "Zarb" range is 400 km. Most likely a modified version of C-602.

No modified version- just DE-MTCR'ed.

 

[Armstrong]

Yeah, and other little tid bits.

Busss kar deiii tu phareiii marnaaa; eik code likaa nahin jataa aur baaat kartaa haiii !

 

[MilSpec]

Yeah, and other little tid bits.

Point being, there is a lot more that goes under the surface. Although most of the Anti-Tank and SAMS are direct copies except for the later batches Anza-II' s and III's having some stinger ideas.

I know, I was just making a general point.

No modified version- just DE-MTCR'ed.

Very difficult to enforce the standards without verification testing, hence MCTR is effectively just a guideline to publish data, operational capabilities can deviate massively as long as not publicized

 

[Blue Marlin]

construction of subs has not started as yet.

probably later this year when the tanker is launched.

Very difficult to enforce the standards without verification testing, hence MCTR is effectively just a guideline to publish data, operational capabilities can deviate massively as long as not publicized

thats why china is not a member of the mctr. but they said they will abide by it. and everyone takes their word for it. in nearly all cases yes they do honour the mctr regs, but for china's darling pakistan things are different. i wont be suprised if the Chinese gave them the full fat version.
its mearly for coastal defence and its program is not open ended so i dont see the point in making them in pakistan where engineers can work on other systems that we are yet to know about.

 

[MilSpec]

thats why china is not a member of the mctr. but they said they will abide by it. and everyone takes their word for it. in nearly all cases yes they do honour the mctr regs, but for china's darling pakistan things are different. i wont be suprised if the Chinese gave them the full fat version.
its mearly for coastal defence and its program is not open ended so i dont see the point in making them in pakistan where engineers can work on other systems that we are yet to know about.

Irrespective of being non-signatory to MCTR both China and Pakistan got slapped with sanction, just under the suspicion of violation.
next
How do you know the range of any system without certification and testing by an independent agency?
Lets take the case of Brahmos, and it's 290Kms stated range, what is this 290 Kms, who will check the range and amount of solid fuel it carries? 290kms at what flight profile and at what altitude? You can set up a simple relay to switch off your propulsion even half way to diminish your range.

It is mostly a hogwash, an ultimatum that don't publicize you data around the world and don't market long range products around the world.