Pakistan-China Joint Exercise "Shaheen VII - 2018"

[CriticalThought]

There's a finite amount of fiscal resources in Pakistan. Yes, the entire package could be bought from Russia, but the PAF's stated requirement for off-the-shelf fighters has been at 30-40 (it can't procure many more at this time). So a full-package that's disconnected from the systems the PAF had already purchased (e.g., SD-10, C-802A, etc) will be very expensive and, in all likelihood, force a trade-off and opportunity costs elsewhere.

Secondly, we do have to dismiss things based on unknowns. The rational way to act is based on certain or known knowledge, not on things we don't know. So if we don't know if the Russians will be amenable to integrating first or third-party systems, then we should be cautious about proceeding with them.

Ultimately, the way forward with Russia will likely be in terms of developing core industrial inputs that will feed into Pakistani weapon systems, such as Project Azm. This will be easier for both sides.

But the Russian perspective isn't entirely unknown. We have examples in India and China. And any ambiguity should be resolved through dialog so we act on concrete information rather than assumptions. If resources are finite then we can make a start with an initial purchase of 6 and keep increasing. In the process, acquire MRO which should lower operating costs over time.

The same argument of finite resources can be applied in reverse. Any new fighter will be here to stay at least 30 - 50 years. Lets be honest with ourselves: will we never require a twin engine aircraft ever? You cannot answer that with yes, and I say the answer is no. Which is why I oppose yet another single engine being inducted.

In parallel, I agree we need Russian help in improving our core scientific, engineering, and industrial base. This is a no brainier and should be pursued on priority basis.

 

[enroger]

how is the deal between Pakiatan and Russia going?

i mean Su35.

No news yet I guess...

 

[帅的一匹]

But the Russian perspective isn't entirely unknown. We have examples in India and China. And any ambiguity should be resolved through dialog so we act on concrete information rather than assumptions. If resources are finite then we can make a start with an initial purchase of 6 and keep increasing. In the process, acquire MRO which should lower operating costs over time.

The same argument of finite resources can be applied in reverse. Any new fighter will be here to stay at least 30 - 50 years. Lets be honest with ourselves: will we never require a twin engine aircraft ever? You cannot answer that with yes, and I say the answer is no. Which is why I oppose yet another single engine being inducted.

In parallel, I agree we need Russian help in improving our core scientific, engineering, and industrial base. This is a no brainier and should be pursued on priority basis.

it depends on Pakistan's importance in Russian's heart. and the relationship between India and USA matters the most.

 

[Windjammer]

 

[CriticalThought]

it depends on Pakistan's importance in Russian's heart. and the relationship between India and USA matters the most.

It is up to us to nurture and develop new relationships. If Pakistan isn't important today, then our planners need to get their act together and make it so we become important enough to achieve our strategic aims.

 

[帅的一匹]

It is up to us to nurture and develop new relationships. If Pakistan isn't important today, then our planners need to get their act together and make it so we become important enough to achieve our strategic aims.

it takes time, Russia will not get too close with Pakistan to sacrifice its relationship with India.
India just bought another thousand T90ms from Russia. i think the military cooperation between Pakistan and Russia will increase in the future, but wont sell attacking weapons like Su35.

no F16 no fun

until J10c has the chance to kick F16's arse, no.chance of J10c going to PAF. thats yankee's trick.

 

[CriticalThought]

it takes time, Russia will not get too close with Pakistan to sacrifice its relationship with India.
India just bought another thousand T90ms from Russia. i think the military cooperation between Pakistan and Russia will increase in the future, but wont sell attacking weapons like Su35.


no F16 no fun

There are many ways around the Russia-India bromance. For example, if Pakistan quietly pays for the Flankers, but they remain in China and Pakistani pilots undergo training in China with their Chinese brothers, then India cannot even know about.

 

[帅的一匹]

what J10c wanna say is: F16block52, i'm waiting for you.

There are many ways around the Russia-India bromance. For example, if Pakistan quietly pays for the Flankers, but they remain in China and Pakistani pilots undergo training in China with their Chinese brothers, then India cannot even know about.

If Russia.sells Su35 to PAF, it will be a breakthrough.

 

[Windjammer]

no F16 no fun

until J10c has the chance to kick F16's arse, no.chance of J10c going to PAF. thats yankee's trick.

The exercise is taking place at an F-16 Base so who knows what's cooking.

 

[帅的一匹]

The exercise is taking place at an F-16 Base so who knows what's cooking.

if J10c cant handle F16blk52, then it has no.chance facing Rafale.

especially PaF F16 pilotes are very experienced.

 

[Readerdefence]

if J10c cant handle F16blk52, then it has no.chance facing Rafale.

especially PaF F16 pilotes are very experienced.

Hi wanglaokan what’s the probability for China to pitch j10b/c against Thailand f16 during exercise to get something out of the particular fighter let’s say if they can’t pitch against paf
I hope Thailand must have mastered their pilots on these jets
So I think China and Pakistan both can get something out of that exercise
Your input please
Thank you

 

[LKJ86]

what’s the probability for China to pitch j10b/c against Thailand f16 during exercise to get something out of the particular fighter

Impossible.

 

[帅的一匹]

Hi wanglaokan what’s the probability for China to pitch j10b/c against Thailand f16 during exercise to get something out of the particular fighter let’s say if they can’t pitch against paf
I hope Thailand must have mastered their pilots on these jets
So I think China and Pakistan both can get something out of that exercise
Your input please
Thank you

J11b had field against Thailand Gripen, the result is satisfying.

 

[LKJ86]

J11b had field against Thailand Gripen, the result is satisfying.

There is nothing about J-11B
They are J-11A/Su-27 and J-10A.

 

[帅的一匹]

There is nothing about J-11B
They are J-11A/Su-27 and J-10A.

we wont send.J10c to anyone except Pakistan. we trust no one except Pakistan.
even there is a excercise.between F16 and J10c, it will not be made public.

it will help us.know where J10c stands.

it will also let PAF know what is the real capacity of.J10c.