Pakistan carries out airstrikes along AfPak border

[Rafi]

Nothing that skillful diplomacy & preparedness can not handle.

The expansion in Army during early Bhutto years was based on credible intelligence (a copy of Afghan war plan, actually) and a strategy was evolved to enable Pakistan to fight a two-front war. Afghanistan had a chance in 1965, but did nothing. Again ditto in 1971. So, I think that a leap of faith is required to make progress. An unstable & weak Afghanistan would still be a big liability, though we'd be safe from a big military attack (& even this is a supposition). Afghans do have some valid grievances, & by helping keep them weak & trapped in civil war, we get blamed.

Notice that I talked about a confederation of Pakistan & Afghanistan as a pipe dream earlier? Yes, as long as Afghanistan is a weak & unstable country, we can not think of them as partners in peace. But as soon as they realize benefits of constitutional representative government with functioning institutions, we have a reason to engage them for mutual benefit.

In my view, an ordered, stable, & economically growing Afghanistan is far preferable to a weak & unstable Afghanistan. Recent history ought to be sufficient evidence of that.

A confederation would be a nightmare over night the entire population would move in country.

 

[Chak Bamu]

A politician should be brave enough to stay in the land where he is doing politics irrespective of the consequences

Nobody forced Nawaz Sharif to do politics. He could open metal scrap shop in Anarkali Lahore considering his abilities

But he chose politics. Then he should be brave enough to face whatever comes in way instead of running away like a coward

That shows that not only he is financially corrupt but also a coward who can't handle pressure

Well that is your view Areesh & of course you are entitled to your opinion. But considering history, NS made the right call. Would IK come back to Pakistan when courts sentence him? Would he display half the resilience? I think not.

So let it be as it is. One can not fight against history.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

A confederation would be a nightmare over night the entire population would move in country.

You can’t have a confederation with people who think of you as their Israel.

 

[Chak Bamu]

A confederation would be a nightmare over night the entire population would move in country.

True sir. I am not endorsing a confederation. I am merely saying that we'd be better able to engage a democratic Afghanistan. A lot needs to happen before one can entertain something that might forever remain a pipe dream.

I am just upset at the outcomes of security-centered policies. The whole region is a mess with no improvement in sight.

PS> see my earlier post discussing just what you wrote. It is a serious security risk.

You can’t have a confederation with people who think of you as their Israel.

It takes two generations at least to change the mind-set of a people, & even then it is not complete.

 

[Areesh]

Well that is your view Areesh & of course you are entitled to your opinion. But considering history, NS made the right call. Would IK come back to Pakistan when courts sentence him? Would he display half the resilience? I think not.

So let it be as it is. One can not fight against history.

First Imran Khan is not financially corrupt like Mian sahab that courts would sentence him like it was in the case of NS. Despite all efforts the best your party could bring against him was tosha khana reference which we all know is a very weak case

Even if he gets sentenced for something then my opinion would still be the same. IK should stay and face all the consequences in Pakistan

NS ran away lying. But very soon things would change again and hopefully our state won't let him run that time

 

[Mirzali Khan]

It takes two generations at least to change the mind-set of a people, & even then it is not complete.

I’m going to assume that I am much younger than you and everyone in this forum (generally)

On tik tok they make open comparisons to Pakistan and Israel and call Pakistan “kaffir country” based on “lines made by kaffirs” and these are actual accounts making these statements it’s not some anonymous potential Indian accounts.

With that being said we should just apply pressure to get them to behave. The idea of confederation should frankly be flushed down the toilet, the differences are too great.

 

[Areesh]

I’m going to assume that I am much younger than you and everyone in this forum (generally)

On tik tok they make open comparisons to Pakistan and Israel and call Pakistan “kaffir country” based on “lines made by kaffirs” and these are actual accounts making these statements it’s not some anonymous potential Indian accounts.

With that being said we should just apply pressure to get them to behave. The idea of confederation should frankly be flushed down the toilet, the differences are too great.

The thing that destroyed Afghanistan is its own jahalat. Afghans own jahalat became the undoing of Afghanistan

They are simply Jahil. The tik tok video example you gave shows their jahalat

Pakistan chose the lesser evil in Taliban since their no good choices for Pakistan when it comes to Afghans

 

[Sayfullah]

The expansion in Army during early Bhutto years was based on credible intelligence (a copy of Afghan war plan, actually) and a strategy was evolved to enable Pakistan to fight a two-front war. Afghanistan had a chance in 1965, but did nothing. Again ditto in 1971.

Afghans tried multiple times to invade Pakistan but were defeated. A few years before 65 war, afghans did bajaur campaign and were defeated by tribals of Pakistan.
65 and 71 war I don’t think they could attack us because whole Muslim world was in support of Pakistan and usa was also supporting us even if it sanctioned us, it was in their interests we stay alive and don’t face 2 front war. Also Chinese pressure as well.

So Afghanistan attacking us during 65 and 71 with no chance of success but making half the world and whole Muslim world against them wasn’t in their interest. They preferred to use Pashtunistan proxies against us until we played dirty like them and Bhutto started funding and training anti communist groups in Afghanistan.

 

[Chak Bamu]

First Imran Khan is not financially corrupt like Mian sahab that courts would sentence him like it was in the case of NS. Despite all efforts the best your party could bring against him was tosha khana reference which we all know is a very weak case

Even if he gets sentenced for something then my opinion would still be the same. IK should stay and face all the consequences in Pakistan

NS ran away lying. But very soon things would change again and hopefully our state won't let him run that time

Baba, stop dragging politics into every thread.

I merely stated the dynamics of decision making that led to this juncture, pointing out that politicians are better decisionmakers because generals have a security-centered mind-set. This does not call for a tangent to derail the discussion. I am not going to be tempted into any more tangents. Enough of this.

 

[Sayfullah]

I am merely saying that we'd be better able to engage a democratic Afghanistan.

Afghanistan needs to recognize Durand line as border first. Afghans consider Durand line what we consider loc. Also considering our tribal areas still aren’t that secure and on the border many tribes are split, if a stable and capable Afghanistan supports Pashtunistan movement we’ll have some serious challenges to face.

 

[Chacha_Facebooka]

The thing that destroyed Afghanistan is its own jahalat. Afghans own jahalat became the undoing of Afghanistan

They are simply Jahil. The tik tok video example you gave shows their jahalat

Pakistan chose the lesser evil in Taliban since their no good choices for Pakistan when it comes to Afghans

Taliban will never be able to govern effectively as they exist today. They are too decentralized and devolved--every group does their own thing. They are designed for guerilla war, not running a country.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Afghans tried multiple times to invade Pakistan but were defeated. A few years before 65 war, afghans did bajaur campaign and were defeated by tribals of Pakistan.
65 and 71 war I don’t think they could attack us because whole Muslim world was in support of Pakistan and usa was also supporting us even if it sanctioned us, it was in their interests we stay alive and don’t face 2 front war. Also Chinese pressure as well.

So Afghanistan attacking us during 65 and 71 with no chance of survival but making half the world and whole Muslim world against them wasn’t in their interest. They preferred to use Pashtunistan proxies against us until we played dirty like them and Bhutto started funding and training anti communist groups in Afghanistan.

Thanks for saying this. In 1965, they conveyed a message to Pakistan to not worry about the Western border.

I think things changed after 1971, & hence their war plan for bifurcation of Pakistan with border at Indus with INDIA. Pakistan did well in not only obtaining a copy of it, but changing strategy accordingly.

I don't think war weary Afghans would consider it as a worthwhile pursuit. Pakistan can wreak havoc & they know it well. This thread is just about this fact. See how IEA is pussy-footing now? They understand their weakness viz-a-viz Pakistan & it shall always be so, IA.

Afghanistan needs to recognize Durand line as border first. Afghans consider Durand line what we consider loc. Also considering our tribal areas still aren’t that secure and on the border many tribes are split, if a stable and capable Afghanistan supports Pashtunistan movement we’ll have some serious challenges to face.

Pashtunistan is a closed chapter now. Lusting after it would break Afghanistan itself.

 

[Sayfullah]

The best interests for Pakistan would be a decentralized stable Afghanistan. A decentralized one with every province having autonomy and can deal with us independently. It would be a win win because Afghanistan is stable while we can have influence on border provinces to ensure we never face a two front war.

 

[Chak Bamu]

On tik tok they make open comparisons to Pakistan and Israel and call Pakistan “kaffir country” based on “lines made by kaffirs” and these are actual accounts making these statements it’s not some anonymous potential Indian accounts.

They are just venting. They know that they can do nothing. Let them stay proud & poor. They deserve being so.

Many in Pakistan used to talk about a future confederation with Afghanistan. This idea was always resisted by generally the more educated & more liberal. I was in its favor too, once upon a time. I do realize that it is a mere pipe dream. But in future, if climate change does not kill us, we may engage with a democratic Afghanistan. Threat from India shall not easily go away.

 

[Sayfullah]

Pashtunistan is a closed chapter now. Lusting after it would break Afghanistan itself.

The Pashtunistan chapter might be closed but the law o bar chapter is very much open. This is fuelled by the ethnic parties we have like ptm.

I don't think war weary Afghans would consider it as a worthwhile pursuit. Pakistan can wreak havoc & they know it well. This thread is just about this fact. See how IEA is pussy-footing now? They understand their weakness viz-a-viz Pakistan & it shall always be so, IA.

That’s right now but imagine a stable Afghanistan. Imagine the 300k strong previous afghan army was the army of a stable Afghanistan and imagine they had a airforce even 2 squadrons of capable jets.
It would be a serious headache because we would have to raise many new troops and would have to focus on afghan threat. We could be in the thinking they would never attack but we would never be sure especially since they don’t recognize Durand line.
Also Iran is on path to getting nukes soon. Even tho we don’t have issues with Iran, it still puts us in a tough situation because we have 3 nuclear states surrounding us and a stable Afghanistan would be the final nail in the coffin. All it takes is a regime change in stable Afghanistan ti make a pro pak gov, anti pak. All it takes is india to flush Iran with investments to create issues with us.