Pakistan can take Laddakh in few days: Samson

[Jungibaaz]

Why do you feel you have to chastise your own countrymen to create a false equivalence between Hindu right and patriotic/religious Pakistanis?

Chastising certain aspects is both warranted and necessary, imo to balance out chest thumping and overly optimistic, or rather foolhardy rhetoric.

As for the equivalence, I made no moral equivalence between us here and Modi’s semi-fascistic government. I didn’t elaborate on what I was saying, but I thought it’d be obvious that I was comparing the strategic outcomes of the two extremes here. I was also just saying that I’m glad that the less informed among us are not in the driving seat in Pakistan. Otherwise we’d be making suffering the repercussions as India is. And make no mistake, Modi’s ‘ghus ke marenge’ rhetoric, and our capturing Ladakh rhetoric are both fuelled by the same hubris, and are both varying degrees of disastrous ideas.

 

[Liquidmetal]

Dramas and news shows dekho. ertugrul urdu me dekho. Sub kuch teek ho jayega.

Good advice, but Pak TV is abysmal, sorry it is unwatchable - news, dramas, even sports, the long winded adverts, the low quality productions, the poor sound quality, the uneducated/untrained reporters, the dramas that have no action, producers and directors forget that TV is an action medium not a photograph, just slow talking. Ertugrul Urdu is not bad though I hate dubbed movies/dramas, but can watch but too many episodes, sorry I am moaning too much apologies.

 

[MilSpec]

He is a retd Brigadier, he had been among the planners in PA. He knows what he is talking about. Listen to him carefully. He didn't boosted. He laid down some cold hard facts.

Anyone with little knowledge, research knows that Pakistan had taken Kargil from India. General Musharaf plans were excellent. He had take very strategic area from Kashmir, which would have resulted in the freedom for all the Kashmir. But traitor Nawaz couldn't take political pressure applied by India through President Clinton.

As he said, PAF wasn't used at all. Nawaz wanted to withdraw the army from Kargil, which eventually happened, while Indians were using their air power against Pakistanis soldiers on height.
Nawaz is firmly responsible for the death of Pakistani soldiers in Kargil. Otherwise Indians were killed in great numbers by Pakistani snipers from the height. If we had used PAF the story would have been completely different and we could have liberated whole of Kashmir by now.
Nawaz continued his treacherous behaviour until the end.
Have you failed to notice since Nawaz gone, the atmosphere and dynamics have completely changed for India!!

Why you think this is happening now!!

Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999.

What lie?
Maybe in 1965 war yes but is that a lie that from day 1 of Pakistan's independence Nehru dreamed of Pakistan collapse. Is that a lie?
That crooked eyed bitch Indra Ghandi was helping mukti bahnie movement before 1971. Is that a lie.
Lie is what you live thinking that a Hindu Brahman will tolerate you if you exist peacefully with them. Its impossible and you know no better than Muhammad ali Jinnah. He saw Hindu leaders and took a decision for independent country.
Is that a lie that it was Jinnah who ordered Pak Army to march into Kashmir and General Gracy disobeyed the COMMAND. IS THAT A LIE?
1965, 71, Kargil and many more are consequences and will happen until Kashmir is resolved. Your resolve have given up along with your age. Don't take that right away from present youth with your demoralizing statements and half history. Regards

 

[MilSpec]

What lie?
Maybe in 1965 war yes but is that a lie that from day 1 of Pakistan's independence Nehru dreamed of Pakistan collapse. Is that a lie?
That crooked eyed bitch Indra Ghandi was helping mukti bahnie movement before 1971. Is that a lie.
Lie is what you live thinking that a Hindu Brahman will tolerate you if you exist peacefully with them. Its impossible and you know no better than Muhammad ali Jinnah. He saw Hindu leaders and took a decision for independent country.
Is that a lie that it was Jinnah who ordered Pak Army to march into Kashmir and General Gracy disobeyed the COMMAND. IS THAT A LIE?
1965, 71, Kargil and many more are consequences and will happen until Kashmir is resolved. Your resolve have given up along with your age. Don't take that right away from present youth with your demoralizing statements and half history. Regards

What an outburst.

Maybe read it again:
Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Chastising certain aspects is both warranted and necessary, imo to balance out chest thumping and overly optimistic, or rather foolhardy rhetoric.

As for the equivalence, I made no moral equivalence between us here and Modi’s semi-fascistic government. I didn’t elaborate on what I was saying, but I thought it’d be obvious that I was comparing the strategic outcomes of the two extremes here. I was also just saying that I’m glad that the less informed among us are not in the driving seat in Pakistan. Otherwise we’d be making suffering the repercussions as India is. And make no mistake, Modi’s ‘ghus ke marenge’ rhetoric, and our capturing Ladakh rhetoric are both fuelled by the same hubris, and are both varying degrees of disastrous ideas.

Now that you explain it, you comments seem much more sensible.

Just remember that Indians have an agenda to divide Pakistanis against each other. They will jump up and down like monkeys. They don't realize that Pakistanis have diverse opinions and views, and at the end of the day, we are all united for the best for our country.

You should see Joe and others struggle when Turks, Iranians, Afghans, Arabs, Chinese, and BDs take the side of Pakistanis on these forums. It is quite entertaining

Good advice, but Pak TV is abysmal, sorry it is unwatchable - news, dramas, even sports, the long winded adverts, the low quality productions, the poor sound quality, the uneducated/untrained reporters, the dramas that have no action, producers and directors forget that TV is an action medium not a photograph, just slow talking. Ertugrul Urdu is not bad though I hate dubbed movies/dramas, but can watch but too many episodes, sorry I am moaning too much apologies.

I grew up listening to lectures of Dr. Israr Ahmad. It improved my Urdu greatly, and parents didn't allow us to speak English in the home. It was only Urdu and Punjabi. Ofcourse PTV dramas were always on in the background as well.

If you hate modern Pakistani dramas, you can find some more Islamic or Fauji dramas.

These days I watch Orya Maqbool Jan and Dr. Shahid Masood mainly for news.

If you know Arabic, Urdu is a much easier language to learn to read and write.

I am sure you have many resources in the UK.

Ertugrul Urdu is not bad though I hate dubbed movies/dramas, but can watch but too many episodes, sorry I am moaning too much apologies.

Ertugrul is a historical epic in cinema/media in the vein of 10 commandments, Dr. Zhivago, Lawrence of Arabia, Ar Risalah (The Message,) and Omar Al Mokhtar: Asad us Sahara (Lion of the Desert.)

It is a monumental achievement for Islamic and Turkish media particularly. Every person should watch it. Even if people don't ascribe to the Islamic ideology of its producers, it ahould be appreciated for its artistic endeavor at least.

The Urdu dub of Ertugrul is especially good. It is accurate to the Turkish (with many of the same words/concepts) and gives much respect to the Urdu of Pakistan. It is riddled with Sufi imagery unique to Pakistani and Turkish culture. The language used is a very elevated form of Urdu which would be difficult for Non-Pakistanis to understand.

What lie?
Maybe in 1965 war yes but is that a lie that from day 1 of Pakistan's independence Nehru dreamed of Pakistan collapse. Is that a lie?
That crooked eyed bitch Indra Ghandi was helping mukti bahnie movement before 1971. Is that a lie.
Lie is what you live thinking that a Hindu Brahman will tolerate you if you exist peacefully with them. Its impossible and you know no better than Muhammad ali Jinnah. He saw Hindu leaders and took a decision for independent country.
Is that a lie that it was Jinnah who ordered Pak Army to march into Kashmir and General Gracy disobeyed the COMMAND. IS THAT A LIE?
1965, 71, Kargil and many more are consequences and will happen until Kashmir is resolved. Your resolve have given up along with your age. Don't take that right away from present youth with your demoralizing statements and half history. Regards

Great post. We Pakistanis will keep on the offensive until Kashmir is freed.

Indians are living in a dream if they believe either Pakistan or China will back down. Now we are galvanized, expect more humiliations for Indians.

 

[Imad.Khan]

I will tag you when the time comes. Dont worry about the details.

We will see how you feel when I do.

There is nothing an outsider can say that will hurt me more than my own countrymen telling me to leave Pakistan and move to Afghanistan and you have been a witness to that.

 

[Thorough Pro]

First, he picks a fight with me, when I challenged him, as usual, he goes on a tangent beating about the bush trying show-off his self assumed "superior" English skills and then sends me a direct message.
What a dishonest coward...........
Who made him a "professional"? or is that "Indian Professional" as we know them?

He is very cautious these days. Whenever his country is humiliated, first absent for a few days then tries to pick fights on small threads.



He is a dangerous one. He cannot fight alone, but need Nilgiri and others to fight. He has two personalities, beware.

No pity for Indians, they deserve more Doklams and 27 Febs.

as I said before, you think too highly of yourself. you have no substance, you rely on lies, falsehood, and propaganda and when challenged you just runaway blabbering irrelevant rants trying to impress others with your assumed mastery of language.

the boot is not on the other foot, it's my boot up your stinky arse, so high up that you are choking on its laces, you think you can fucking pressurize me, I wipe my *** with characters like you

No, no, I think it is a case of the boot being on the other foot. I think I have borne down too hard on them and regret it. It is better to leave them alone if they feel upset. I don't feel picked on at all; not when I have myriads of friends of all nationalities. Truly.

But thank you for your consideration. I truly appreciate it.

Our empire is fine, worry about your that is crashing down

Much appreciated. I hope to travel by bus or train, and avoid the perils of flying Air India; always a terrifying prospect.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan
@Thorough Pro

Gentlemen, calm down. Go back to your empire-building; these empires will vanish once you press the off-button on your system, and are harmless. I shall not trouble you, not online!

Reported?

Do I give a ****? NO!
Now choke on some cow dung you stinky arse

Reported your thread for gadey murdey ukhadney ke liye.

- PRTP GWD

 

[Ultima Thule]

And PAF was not even aware of Kargil operation in the first place.

PAF lacks BVR at the time of Kargil war but you had that's why PAF did limited air cover for our troop at Kargil

 

[peagle]

First, he picks a fight with me, when I challenged him, as usual, he goes on a tangent beating about the bush trying show-off his self assumed "superior" English skills and then sends me a direct message.
What a dishonest coward...........
Who made him a "professional"? or is that "Indian Professional" as we know them?


View attachment 643121



as I said before, you think too highly of yourself. you have no substance, you rely on lies, falsehood, and propaganda and when challenged you just runaway blabbering irrelevant rants trying to impress others with your assumed mastery of language.

the boot is not on the other foot, it's my boot up your stinky arse, so high up that you are choking on its laces, you think you can fucking pressurize me, I wipe my *** with characters like you




Our empire is fine, worry about your that is crashing down



Reported?

Do I give a ****? NO!
Now choke on some cow dung you stinky arse

Joe Shearer <<
I found him to be an empty shell, and very much agree with your observations. Definitely a two-headed snake.
I've found it is not worth showing mercy to Indians, because their hate for you is too deep-rooted, and most do not want peace.

 

[Thorough Pro]

@Joe Shearer

Do you live in this India?

or this?

Because they were winning, right, genius?



Because he was sent out to cover for the military defeat and try to get a compromise, to try and get the Indians from completing the military demolition.

You can wriggle and turn as much as you like, you remain on the hook.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

There is nothing an outsider can say that will hurt me more than my own countrymen telling me to leave Pakistan and move to Afghanistan and you have been a witness to that.

You have an open enemy next door and people from this country who are so brainwashed into hating Pakistanis for generations that they cannot help but comment on and abuse any Pakistani they run across on social media. These people go around telling whites and others how bad Pakistanis are. I cannot tell you how many White Americans I had to correct about their misplaced notions of Pakistan because some Indian friend brainwashed them against Pakistanis, even when neither had known a Pakistani personally. Afterwards they end up respecting us when they find out the reality and being upset Indians convinced them against us.

On this forum, even I have been told to go back to Afghanistan by a few racist members, even though I am Punjabi myself. However those members are marginal at best and do not enjoy protection of Mods nor titles.

 

[SQ8]

Let's consider one thing. We have an adversary 3x our size. As such this is not a case of Pakistan having a ton of options and all the advantages available to her. The fact that we have employed all tools at our disposal to keep the issue of Kashmir alive should be given credit. It is an unresolved issue that Pakistan isn't allowing to be brushed under the rug by the regional hegemony.

This perspective is important. All these slogans like "the nation has perfected the art of snatching strategic defeat from the jaws of tactical victories." mean very little when you are the under-dog fighting for an even smaller under-dog. Give the military as much budget as the adversary and then you could rightfully make the above claim.

I disagree as this sounds like a excuse for mediocrity rather than figuring that even with the underdog status one would expect better decisions and performance - be it in 47, 65, 71 and so on.

And this isn’t just my opinion but of veterans of military and bureaucracy alike.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

The point of view is known as reality. I am not saying that we should not fight india but i am saying we r not ready to fight india.

If u want to fight build war reserves.

I agree that war is not an option we have no plan to attack india but we knew whats coming to Kashmir how volunerable Pak become if Kashmir issue stays in limbo.. what option do we have they are not talking by creating fake a attacks on their parliment,on people or anywhere we stop supporting kashmiries which we sudnt we sud support anyone who wants to get out of indian union like how they did by creating and helping mukhtibahni they were not in position to fight after 62 65 wars but they keep coming and utilize we sudnt sit and crying that oh we are not readymayter fact we have been preparing for this feom begnning..
But war is last option atleast we sud keep them on their tows thays what they did from last 20 years atleast.

 

[SQ8]

Self flaggelate hi tou hum nahi karte. Chest thump karte hain bas.

You want to move forces to Kashmir? Good. I want that too.

Ab aao asal logistical baaton pe. Maula Jatt ki movie se baahir ajao. Do we even have a second port besides Karachi to bypass a naval blockade from India? Have we secured our western borders fully, because India will definitely use its proxies from Afghanistan to divert our army? Abay bhai pehle apna ghar control mein lao, economy strong karo, phir offensive pe jaana ka sochna. Warna 1971 waala scene hoga.

There is a lot more involved in that since we keep forgetting the universal lesson of “we are one nation”. So if the military is the bane of Pakistani existence per some then they too are born of the same soil and until they hit kakul are usually sourced from similar schooling.

While there was a lot of self patting in the recent ISPR drama of wafas, there was truth in that the origin is always mixed for both military and other classes. What you choose to do with it is a mix of your background, environmental compulsions and fate.

The first two are affected by the society around you and only a collective of society can change it. If a child went into a Madressa and came out a terrorist, then it was the fault of the state not providing him an alternative and not ensuring he take it.

Whoever controlled the state at the time let it happen, and those who let those in control carry out their will are as complacent as anyone else.