Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[Viper0011.]

So what makes you come to 1.5 to 2 jets per plane figure? Please illustrate the enemy country and the fighters involved you believe will get bundled by a block 15 turned into block 42 F-16s. Which brand new you believe will come second in an engagement with RJAF's F-16s? I am willing to know the justification if it is anything other than super duper pilots/men behind machine theory.

The mighty IAF is what I was referring to. Between a mix of Jaguars, Migs of different kinds, Mirages and then SU-30's....you'll get 1.5 to 2 jets average. Remember, they are playing defense and you'll be the offensive force. It's not a matter of size and how many bombs you can take with you, it's JUST a matter of AMRAAM's and BVR's being fired and dog fights, either one of them is an advantage to PAF in this case due to proximity to the border. Each one of these F-16's on a defensive sortie will have 4-6 AMRAAM's before going to a dog fight. PAF's always been known to be a good fighting force, specifically close-in fights and these jets are ADF versions....
Your incoming package sure will have interceptors, but the strike package will take a hit. I can't argue here all night without you understanding the defense - offense strategy. But I let you think about it.

 

[PhoneyMember]

A war is never one on one. Its not that single PAF F16 or thunder will face single IAF mig or sukhoi.Pakistan has more AEW&C per square mile and per jet fighter than India. intact India at present has only one AEW&C more than Pakistan.For that reason we can forget Indian planes have better radars as PAF has networked AEW&C with ground based air defense and fighter jets.

 

[That Guy]

Moot Point.

Factually Negated - By Stating you have JOHN RAMBO of Combat Aviation!!

1 SQN=3/4SQN FOE when F16 blk52 faces Mig 21 Typ 15/MIRAGE 3/ Mig 23BM/SAAB 37 VIGGEN & F-7

Not really, considering the history of the F-16 and it's use in actual combat. So far, the F-16 has outperformed ever opponent it's faced in the air.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

how so please.

Look around, For momentary gains we even r going to sacrifice our long term gains. Not just by F16 case but from selling arms to Syrian Rebels too for just a few millions and our all that hardwork of past 10 years to save our Nation from extremism is in danger.

 

[Donatello]

Block 15 is not going to take in GE engines as its bay is only fitted for PW-F-100. The engine remains the same.
The EW pods are the ITT ALQ-211 which are better than the ALQ-131
Please read
Exelis - AIDEWS

Radar is to be changed to APG-68 V(9).. again read before going on a jingositic posting tirade.

statement
1) jingoistic speculative bullshit
2) Not even speculation.. pure bull SHIT.

Replace speculative with 'Usual Indian'

 

[BATMAN]

PAF's always been known to be a good fighting force, specifically close-in fights and these jets are ADF versions....

before some one blame you of being jingoistic, i like to point to the un-succesful infiltration of IAF during Zardari era, where their mirrage-2000 was locked by Pakisatni interceptor.
That also brought an end of IAF's public plan of bombing 5000 targets, in Pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

This deal and the support for it by our senior team in this forum shows how much short sighted we as a Nation are.

Hi,

There are immediate goals and then there are long term goals. The immediate goals are to have something with the capability of a bvr to counter the strength of the su 30 In a reasonable number on the go. The f16 does that without missing the beat.

The delay in the procurement of the Rafale has given pak some breathing room.

The goals are not set in stone. They change and they need to change in accordance to the change taking place otherwise in the surroundings.

The goals also change with the induction of a new air chief. The previous might be more prejudiced towards the u s---the current chief may have different thoughts.

Larger numbers of f16,s will take care of the short to mid term goals as well---at least for 10 years.

Reader must understand that you have to survive thru your short term and mid term crisis at first before any other goals to be achieved.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Hi,

There are immediate goals and then there are long term goals. The immediate goals are to have something with the capability of a bvr to counter the strength of the su 30 In a reasonable number on the go. The f16 does that without missing the beat.

The delay in the procurement of the Rafale has given pak some breathing room.

The goals are not set in stone. They change and they need to change in accordance to the change taking place otherwise in the surroundings.

The goals also change with the induction of a new air chief. The previous might be more prejudiced towards the u s---the current chief may have different thoughts.

Larger numbers of f16,s will take care of the short to mid term goals as well---at least for 10 years.

Reader must understand that you have to survive thru your short term and mid term crisis at first before any other goals to be achieved.

just for 10 years lets see what 10 years really matter. If we were going for J10 who is seeing a constant upgrades it may have served us for a good span of 30 years then this 1979's aircraft. Who is not in production nor is in further updates anymore. Even the tiny israelis r replacing them and we r still siting on some momentary advantages which may last for only 10 years or so.

Even Indians will have in 10 years their 5th gen fighters and we still be again back to square one. thanks to our short shortsightedness and colonial inferiority complex.

 

[Zarvan]

before some one blame you of being jingoistic, i like to point to the un-succesful infiltration of IAF during Zardari era, where their mirrage-2000 was locked by Pakisatni interceptor.
That also brought an end of IAF's public plan of bombing 5000 targets, in Pakistan.

When that happened and and what do you mean by locked by Pakistani interceptor

 

[Sinnerman108]

Hi,

There are immediate goals and then there are long term goals. The immediate goals are to have something with the capability of a bvr to counter the strength of the su 30 In a reasonable number on the go. The f16 does that without missing the beat.

The delay in the procurement of the Rafale has given pak some breathing room.

The goals are not set in stone. They change and they need to change in accordance to the change taking place otherwise in the surroundings.

The goals also change with the induction of a new air chief. The previous might be more prejudiced towards the u s---the current chief may have different thoughts.

Larger numbers of f16,s will take care of the short to mid term goals as well---at least for 10 years.

Reader must understand that you have to survive thru your short term and mid term crisis at first before any other goals to be achieved.

I wish you are wrong on the air chief part.

How can millions of dollars in investment and defense of country be predicated on a "person" !!??

 

[MastanKhan]

just for 10 years lets see what 10 years really matter. If we were going for J10 who is seeing a constant upgrades it may have served us for a good span of 30 years then this 1979's aircraft. Who is not in production nor is in further updates anymore. Even the tiny israelis r replacing them and we r still siting on some momentary advantages which may last for only 10 years or so.

Even Indians will have in 10 years their 5th gen fighters and we still be again back to square one. thanks to our short shortsightedness and colonial inferiority complex.

Mr Nawaz,

You simply don,t get it. J10 is not available to us. It does not have an engine that can fly it for Pakistan. It does not have weapons systems & weapons package better than the f16 blk 52. & mlu,s. Even after 5 years from now the j10 would be inferior to our blk 52's.

The engine on the j is for Chinese usage and not for paf. Once the engine becomes available it will take another 5 to 10 years for it to mature. There are a myriads of issues with the j10' at this time. It is extremely suitable for the Chinese Air Force because they got nothing else other than a few j11.

Pak f16 blk 52's are more advanced than anything that the Chinese have so far and for years to come.

 

[Gryphon]

Pakistan looking to buy Jordanian F-16s

Farhan Bokhari, Islamabad - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
24 February 2014

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is "close to concluding a deal" for the purchase of up to 13 Lockheed Martin F-16 fighter aircraft currently flown by the Royal Jordanian Air Force, a senior Pakistani government official has told IHS Jane's .

Pakistan is looking to buy up to 13 Lockheed Martin F-16 fighter aircraft currently flown by the Royal Jordanian Air Force. (TAI).

The official said the PAF has also made inquiries with at least two other countries to buy F-16s although he declined to name them.

PAF officials have previously told IHS Jane's they were keen to increase the size of Pakistan's F-16 fleet, which currently comprises 18 F-16C/D Block 50/52 versions and between 45 and 50 F-16A/B models purchased in the 1980s.

"The discussions with Jordan are at an advanced stage. We are looking at 12 F-16As and one F-16B Block 15 version," said the Pakistani official. "I hope a deal will come together soon and the aircraft could land in Pakistan in the next few months," he added.

A senior Western diplomat in Islamabad said Jordan may have agreed to sell the aircraft after being persuaded by the United States and possibly Saudi Arabia.

"Recently there has been speculation that the US and Saudi Arabia - for different reasons - are keen to boost Pakistan's potential given the coming events," he said in reference to increasing signs that the PAF could be deployed against Taliban targets in the semi-autonomous tribal areas along the Afghan border ahead of a Pakistan Army ground offensive. The United States has urged Pakistan's civil and military authorities to undertake this mission for years.

At the same time, recently reported that Saudi Arabia is seeking troops from Pakistan to boost its defences, especially along its southern border with Yemen. However, Riyadh's request has prompted speculation that Pakistan is being drawn into supporting Saudi Arabia in the event of the Syrian civil war spilling over into the kingdom.

COMMENT
The PAF's long-term fast jet procurements involve the purchase of up to 250 JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft produced jointly by China's Chengdu Aerospace Corporation and the PAF-run Pakistan Aeronautical Complex at Kamra, north of Islamabad.

However, Pakistani defence officials are keen to continue operating the F-16s as the backbone of the PAF, while also retaining the possibility of purchasing more US fighter aircraft if the country can afford them.

(374 words)

Pakistan looking to buy Jordanian F-16s - IHS Jane's 360

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Mr Nawaz,

You simply don,t get it. J10 is not available to us. It does not have an engine that can fly it for Pakistan. It does not have weapons systems & weapons package better than the f16 blk 52. & mlu,s. Even after 5 years from now the j10 would be inferior to our blk 52's.

The engine on the j is for Chinese usage and not for paf. Once the engine becomes available it will take another 5 to 10 years for it to mature. There are a myriads of issues with the j10' at this time. It is extremely suitable for the Chinese Air Force because they got nothing else other than a few j11.

Pak f16 blk 52's are more advanced than anything that the Chinese have so far and for years to come.

Sir i agree with superiority of bl 52 right now. But the point is for how long? According to u atleast 5-10 years or i say lets consider it 20 years.

But the point is if there is no war in lets say 20 years or 10 from now and by then the indians induct their 5th gen fighters and take advantage of the situation and attack us then what answer we will have?

The obsolete bl52s? yes obsolete dont kid yrself as 10 years from now and with constant evolving modern warfare and threat perception of Pakistan they will be today's f7pgs in paf.

My worry is not Rafael nor is their mirage 2000 updates nor is their su30 update because as i know these r just their version of stop gap measures. Their real claws will be 5th gen fighters abt whom we literally know nothing in the sense that we can take it out in a war time scenario.

If we really were to go for short term goals and medium term goal which i will designate as stop gap solutions then i will surely recomment a Chinese fighter it may not be j10 it could be j11 or whatever in 4.5 gen category. As these fighters will come with the critical TOT ie with knowledge transfer. And if we have the necessary know how we can always independent modify it in PAC which will be more economic and we will have all the freedom in the world to integrate it with any weapon we like( im taking a clue from JFt project).

Now thats something no f16 can do for us.

Let me pose a question Even if we go against America and start building an F16 from stretch as we r operating them since 83 so can we realistically make it? or even make a platform like this? No because we even dont have access to its radar too let alone making a aircraft like this by reverse engineering it or copying it. Its critical systems r sealed off like avionic, radars etc.

And now see what can we do with J10 or J11? We can even copy engineer it (if we want) as we will get TOT . Which will eventually benefit our local industry and existing a/c projects. And if u see it in long term then it can benefit our future projects as well if we r to make a 5th gen fighter in future if economy get back on track. Because frankly i dont really trust the chinese enough as they will go what suits them and if tomorrow they sign a deal with indians not to support us anymore where will we go? they r already on such track and it is raising some eyes in NDU and in think Tank sections related to Defense and International Relations.

Lets put Pakistan first then anything else.

 

[EyanKhan]

didn't we buy them already

 

[45'22']

didn't we buy them already

looks like the deal is still on