Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[fatman17]

This deal and the support for it by our senior team in this forum shows how much short sighted we as a Nation are.

how so please.

 

[Developereo]

What is more suitable . A plane which is already in service with PAF with all the ground infra plus the skills which are being developed by pilots over years of extensive training and pratice .

OR

A new plane which PAF have no knowledge have not infra on ground , with pilots having no expertise in flying that plane.

Expertise are not developed in a day or 2 . It take years of continuous exercise and practice to develop skills and tactics .

wont it be more sensible to buy a plane on which you have experience than buy a plane of which you know nothing.

IF we are planning to get J-10s anyway at some point, would it not make more sense to start developing the necessary capabilities and expertise right now?

This seems to be a period of relative calm in the India-Pakistan relationship although, of course, one can never predict the future.

To grow, one must come out of the comfort zone..

 

[Inception-06]

Hey guys can someone make a List how man F-16 we will have and which version and how many we have now ? It woul be very nice and helpfull !

 

[Donatello]

IF we are planning to get J-10s anyway at some point, would it not make more sense to start developing the necessary capabilities and expertise right now?

This seems to be a period of relative calm in the India-Pakistan relationship although, of course, one can never predict the future.

To grow, one must come out of the comfort zone..

Sir jee, no funds for another program. JF-17 is keeping PAC and PAF busy. PAF is inducting and integrating more F-16s (BVR capable) and JF-17s along with their networking via ZDK-03 and Erieye. That's a massive undertaking. I don't think PAF has dealt with sudden infusion of such technology in the past.

 

[HRK]

But I heard they are not wearing any top

Oye disco molvi ....

 

[Zarvan]

Oye disco molvi ....

In another word Mard Bacha stay on topic guys

 

[araz]

Don't let others work you up. We know what this procurement means to PAF, what punch it adds. Some of us are privy to privileged information that cannot be divulged. Suffice to say there is some sort of thought process behind this deal.

I have been here for almost two years and look at my post count. I read and read and read and then I smile on some opinions and laugh on others. Others have a right to their opinion but again, don't let them work you up.

"Stay Cool n u'll Rule"

I think this is very selfish of you. To sit on the sidelines and not venture an opinion is not a very healthy attitude. If knowledge is there and it can be shared it should be shared. If it cant be shared then you have no business on a public forum .So either SHARE OR STAY OUT!! It is hypocritical to say you have previleged information and then keep it from people. How do we even know whether you are not just boasting..
REGARDS#
Araz

Thank you bro. I appreciate it. Someone cared to remember my brutally honest posts on here



Thank you. I wasn't worked up although the post might suggest that. I don't appreciate it when people get out of facts and introduce their personal biases and agendas in a factual discussion. Everyone has a right to their opinion. But opinion and propaganda are two different things

Does anyone know when the current MLU program ends? It's been pushed out to the next year but what's the completion date?

Aurangzeb
We may not have said it but you were missed. We dont mind a bit of introspection. Man it is good for one to not be on cloud 9 all the time and remain firmly grounded.
Araz

 

[rohailmalhi]

IF we are planning to get J-10s anyway at some point, would it not make more sense to start developing the necessary capabilities and expertise right now?

This seems to be a period of relative calm in the India-Pakistan relationship although, of course, one can never predict the future.

To grow, one must come out of the comfort zone..

IF we are planning to buy them then sure , but PAF is not going to buy them (from their current purchase they have shown that).

and from PAF perspective I think its wondrful decision not to go for a new platform that does not offer much . (Keeping in mind JF-17 & F-16s) .I see it as wise & excellent decision by PAF.

I will be better if we can get our hands on more F-16s in coming years. Benefits would be no divided attention , more focused on JF-17 program and extra money can be used on pilot training and other upgrades of JF-17.

 

[araz]

We r still wasting our money on this crap then buying J10s on soft lone from China.

Umair .
Your question has been answered and the logic of buying older F16s has been discussed to death. If you still want to maintain that they are junk give us a cogent reason and then we can talk. J10B will not give you anything more that the F16s cannot provide now and the JFT cannot provide with upgrade.

Bightman - Where is the Congress Approval to Upgrade your Weapon ?

The original request has been approvedby the congress. We dont need to go to the congress for every nut and bolt that we buy.. Feel free to keep your tongue in your cheek.
Araz

This deal and the support for it by our senior team in this forum shows how much short sighted we as a Nation are.

It is not a question of shortsightedness. It is a combination of resource constraint and lack of options. As I said The J10B does not offer us that much more than the 16s now and the JFT in future. there are problems in integrating a newer platform as against buying a platform which has infrastructure established.
Araz

Hey guys can someone make a List how man F-16 we will have and which version and how many we have now ? It woul be very nice and helpfull !

at the moment18 Block 52s (12C+6D). Rest are Block 15s(31) and 15 OCUs(14). These 13-16 are OCUs as well.
Araz

 

[Lil Mathew]

GAWWWDDDDD! Propaganda. Are you guys EVER happy? Whether it be the US, or China or Pakistan or anyone else. You guys JUST want to create flaws in everything? How about them Mig-21 BISONS (BISON = Bad Integration Shi-t ONly ) as pilots from other air forces call them????? Why don't you go change ALL Mig-21's and then come back and make the above comment. It seems that poor living standards in India are stopping you from replacing 1 to 1 jets? (Same silly argument that you made above?, you can see it ruins the whole effect of the argument by adding personal flavors).

Remember, USAF - ANG have other requirements and use for these planes than the rest of the world. Their flight time is less too like 3000 hours. After which, the jets are parked as they become second hand and are written off. BUT, these machines are well worthy to other countries. Like our local flight schools here still fly WWII era planes for training. Will you say that those planes can't fly as they are old???

These jets are AMRAAM capable and are the ADF version that was created to support BVR operations for interception (has the tech to support previous BVR options like the Sparrow and Phoenix and other long range older missiles) and the AMRAAMs fit RIGHT in. So whether you think these are a good or not a good buy.......for a force that has less than 100 top line BVR jets, it adds 13 more BVR capable interceptors. That is 10% increase OVERNIGHT (if the BVR-able jets were 130 in PAF's inventory). THAT is a HUGE addition and in a matter of days, not year, with immediate pilot availability also and support infrastructure ready.
Imagine how many jets they can take down before going down themselves. THAT should be your focus. Not how good or bad the deal feels to your stomach!

The main criterias for a buy are-
1. Requirement -Both now and FUTURE.. Here j10 is the winner when we look forward..
2. Availability- aircraft, spares, upgrades,services.. Here best option is j10.. Bcos china is a better ally and room for future upgrades against already matured f16..
3. Money available- capital cost, your above points like pilot availability and support infrastructure etc..
4. Durability, quality, new techs- j10 is better than these 30 yr old f16 ADFs..
So the point 3 that is 'money' is favourable here (including your points).. What that means? The PAF forced to accept these types of planes in 2014 because of bad economic conditions..
Your points about Mig 21s are not relevant as we are replacing them with new advanced rafales.. Our planes mirage, mig, sukhoi all are upgrading with latest available upgrades..
Do you have any other point than money bro..

1. 1979 planes which are almost active in 30 years..
2. These planes are extensively used by two air forces..
3. Third handing over that also from a second class air force (RJAF - itself alwayz buys second hand).. I think only Romania (very small air force) done thats b4 from portugal (ex USAF planes).. But that air crafts are better than this..

 

[Donatello]

The main criterias for a buy are-
1. Requirement -Both now and FUTURE.. Here j10 is the winner when we look forward..
2. Availability- aircraft, spares, upgrades,services.. Here best option is j10.. Bcos china is a better ally and room for future upgrades against already matured f16..
3. Money available- capital cost, your above points like pilot availability and support infrastructure etc..
4. Durability, quality, new techs- j10 is better than these 30 yr old f16 ADFs..
So the point 3 that is 'money' is favourable here (including your points).. What that means? The PAF forced to accept these types of planes in 2014 because of bad economic conditions..
Your points about Mig 21s are not relevant as we are replacing them with new advanced rafales.. Our planes mirage, mig, sukhoi all are upgrading with latest available upgrades..
Do you have any other point than money bro..

1. 1979 planes which are almost active in 30 years..
2. These planes are extensively used by two air forces..
3. Third handing over that also from a second class air force (RJAF - itself alwayz buys second hand).. I think only Romania (very small air force) done thats b4 from portugal (ex USAF planes).. But that air crafts are better than this..

If you put as much effort in your LCA as you did in writing this post, gosh, god knows where IAF would be.

Please don't troll. Go through the thread. This is not a F-16 vs J-10 thread. It is for PAF acquisition of Jordanian F-16s.

 

[Viper0011.]

Let me answer in order:
1: Requirements: Are you coming up with PAF's requirements? They have them and that's why these birds were bought. Unless you can speak on behalf of PAF's air chief?
2: How is J-10 the best option for support, spares and availability? The aircraft has NOT been inducted, no support facility exists. While F-16's have a ton of spare and facilities already working (are you smoking stuff that you shouldn't be on bro???)
3: Money available: Well.....if they paid for it, the money was available. Will you sell me your car without getting paid for it?
4: Durability: J-10 hasn't even been tested in combat. How is it better than a machine that has seen intense combat for past 4+ decades against almost all kinds of enemies.....?
The PAF would always LOVE to have more F-16's. There wasn't any forcing of those. They would have them around 110 but they are slowly moving due to less funding. But there is no shoving down their throat or forceful acceptance. This is where you guys from India leave facts and get in the world of lala land and play the propaganda!
My point against Mig-21 isn't invalid. It sure is, when you get rid of the flying coffins all the way, come make comments about others. And trust me, upgrading a deathbed with LCD TV and a music system ......still makes it a deathbed. The upgrades done to so many older Mig-21's.....your own pilots still call them the flying coffins.

The rest of the comment about second class air force and used plane is just your own personal bias. These will take down on average 1.5 to 2 jets per plane. That's 20-26 enemy jets on the line worth a few billion (some brand new and upgraded too). That's what I am talking about. The rest of your comment is just a haze in the maze

The main criterias for a buy are-
1. Requirement -Both now and FUTURE.. Here j10 is the winner when we look forward..
2. Availability- aircraft, spares, upgrades,services.. Here best option is j10.. Bcos china is a better ally and room for future upgrades against already matured f16..
3. Money available- capital cost, your above points like pilot availability and support infrastructure etc..
4. Durability, quality, new techs- j10 is better than these 30 yr old f16 ADFs..
So the point 3 that is 'money' is favourable here (including your points).. What that means? The PAF forced to accept these types of planes in 2014 because of bad economic conditions..
Your points about Mig 21s are not relevant as we are replacing them with new advanced rafales.. Our planes mirage, mig, sukhoi all are upgrading with latest available upgrades..
Do you have any other point than money bro..

1. 1979 planes which are almost active in 30 years..
2. These planes are extensively used by two air forces..
3. Third handing over that also from a second class air force (RJAF - itself alwayz buys second hand).. I think only Romania (very small air force) done thats b4 from portugal (ex USAF planes).. But that air crafts are better than this..

 

[Lil Mathew]

If you put as much effort in your LCA as you did in writing this post, gosh, god knows where IAF would be.

Please don't troll. Go through the thread. This is not a F-16 vs J-10 thread. It is for PAF acquisition of Jordanian F-16s.

ha ha.. Our LCAs are already awesome sir..
We are not trolling.. We are discussing .. Na?? If we only post about acquisition, it will end up in 2-3 news sources with vague information.. We have to develop it, na??.. Details of aircrafts.. It's abilities as well as limitations.. About deal.. It's positives negetive.. Other possible options.. Its adv and disadvantages..
Also we add some debating mood, it will be interesting,na?? .. Defence or discussion forum =(fun+info)..

 

[SQ8]

ha ha.. Our LCAs are already awesome sir..
We are not trolling.. We are discussing .. Na?? If we only post about acquisition, it will end up in 2-3 news sources with vague information.. We have to develop it, na??.. Details of aircrafts.. It's abilities as well as limitations.. About deal.. It's positives negetive.. Other possible options.. Its adv and disadvantages..
Also we add some debating mood, it will be interesting,na?? .. Defence or discussion forum =(fun+info)..

In all of this please try not to be repetitve in arguments.
Eventually one gets irritated by the "Sky is blue" "Sky is black" discussions when no side agrees to it.
Agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Lil Mathew]

In all of this please try not to be repetitve in arguments.
Eventually one gets irritated by the "Sky is blue" "Sky is black" discussions when no side agrees to it.
Agree to disagree and move on.

But if you check closely more than 95% percentage posts are repeating same things (good move, bvr, total 76,mlu,capable as blk52) .. A voice against it is so irritating?? A good post with valuable points can easily shut my mouth (there are points) .. Bt everybody repeating and repeating same points (cost,infra etc).. So I continued.. So i'm disagreing and moving on..