Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[Dr. Strangelove]

i havent visited this thread in a week
can someone tell me these 13 f 16s are bvr capable or not

 

[SQ8]

But if you check closely more than 95% percentage posts are repeating same things (good move, bvr, total 76,mlu,capable as blk52) .. A voice against it is so irritating?? A good post with valuable points can easily shut my mouth (there are points) .. Bt everybody repeating and repeating same points (cost,infra etc).. So I continued.. So i'm disagreing and moving on..

Well, you havent been able to prove your points either... and you arent the only ones with those points...others are too. And they are irritating as well. The problem is with people not bothering to read a few pages ago. They usually end up stating what is already being said.
You will also find the counterpoint to your ideas in there as well. If you read through.

 

[PoKeMon]

The rest of the comment about second class air force and used plane is just your own personal bias. These will take down on average 1.5 to 2 jets per plane. That's 20-26 enemy jets on the line worth a few billion (some brand new and upgraded too). That's what I am talking about. The rest of your comment is just a haze in the maze

So what makes you come to 1.5 to 2 jets per plane figure? Please illustrate the enemy country and the fighters involved you believe will get bundled by a block 15 turned into block 42 F-16s. Which brand new you believe will come second in an engagement with RJAF's F-16s? I am willing to know the justification if it is anything other than super duper pilots/men behind machine theory.

 

[PoKeMon]

Bachay nu mircha lag gaiyan nai. Anyhow, my reply to your comments is provided below in red.

So you are privy to lot but you will not share (who knows the truth).

You are too intelligent but will not make an intellectual comment.

You know things which are best to be left with you.

Then you come and read the post from "ignorant" ones in likes of @araz and laugh/smile clandestinely and have a ridiculing grim on your face.

So sir, let us know the very purpose of your existence on this platform? To mock and laugh away and keep telling you know what one should not know?

 

[araz]

So what makes you come to 1.5 to 2 jets per plane figure? Please illustrate the enemy country and the fighters involved you believe will get bundled by a block 15 turned into block 42 F-16s. Which brand new you believe will come second in an engagement with RJAF's F-16s? I am willing to know the justification if it is anything other than super duper pilots/men behind machine theory.

Oh bhai.
In very simple words we can only afford this , we were offered this, we liked it and bought it. You dont like it fine just move on. There can only be that many arguments for and against a purchase. They have been discussed. These F16will never fit in your strategic line of thought because your priorities are different to ours. This is why you will go for Rafale MKIs and perhaps in future if the deal is right then a Fifth generation fighter. We will always be reactive in our purchases even if we dont have any issues with finances. Affordability is the name of the game for us . At this point in time this is a word your nation does not know. Incidently you are also upgrading your M2ks and MKIs so it is alright to go down the line of what suits you. These second hand bl.15aOCUs are what suits us.
If you want we can look at the rationale behind these purchases but it seems you are just here to argue.

 

[That Guy]

Sir F-16 BLOCK 52 is far better than Sukhoi sir and if we are able to upgrade these Jets close to 52 the kind of training our guys have they would create havoc but we need to improve our economy and try to get J-10 C because that is a deadly machine

Which Sukhoi? If you're talking about Su-30, I don't know about that. They've never fought each other, but considering their specs, Su-30 does have it's advantages.

Let`s hit the Nail on Head, Gentleman....

- PAF has 19.5 Fighter Sqns.
- F16 Comprise 3 Sqn. - 2Sqn Block 15 A/B and 1 Sqn Bock 52
- F16 Jordan are yet again, Block 15 A/B
- Yanks are they Selling you - AIM -9/AIM-7/AIM-120 C-7
- Purchage of 13 Block 15s will lead to 4th Sqn

2 F16 A/BSqns -
-Turkish Upgrade - will not lead to change to APG 68 (V- 5/ V-4) Radar
-Will the Engines for Block 15 be changed to F110-GE-129
-Will the EW pods be changed to ALQ-131 Block II
If none of above Core systems will be changed as part of Turkish Upgrade then My Friend your last Statemet was a "Pure Tounge in Cheek Comment". 4 Sqns wont make a Difference.

Statement -
1) MIG21 Bison with GCR and Phalacon Support is Quite a Formidable system.
2) My Israeli Brats have also wispered some codes in my ear. In return for some favours...

Statement - My FOE is China, W.A.C & S.W.A.C is ample to Manage Paf

Even a single squad can make a difference. The US has proven this over and over again.

Having said that, we know next to nothing about the new purchase, or if they'll be upgraded, so we'll have to wait until next month. So no, my statement wasn't tongue in cheek.

 

[BATMAN]

considering their specs, Su-30 does have it's advantages.

I don't see its advantages, other than your friend of friend logic.

 

[That Guy]

I don't see its advantages, other than your friend of friend logic.

I'm not going to spell it out for you, there is plenty of info on the forums, just look for it yourself.

Or are you once again going to ignore everything I say and stick to your narrative?

 

[BATMAN]

I'm not going to spell it out for you, there is plenty of info on the forums, just look for it yourself.

Or are you once again going to ignore everything I say and stick to your narrative?

If you can't support your claim than don't even mention it... there's plenty of info. that the BVR of SU-30 (glorified SU-27) have poor seeker and its hit rate is very poor.
RCS of SU-27/30 is the perhaps twice of JF-17, but you are free to see it as an advantage.
SU-30 is only good for bombing missions and carrying load and fuel, but without smart and efficient wepons, this quality go down to zero.
Turn around time of SU-30 is so more than twice of JF-17, translating for PAF as more a/c in air.
JF-17 can have major overhaul at forward airbases, and double engine SU-30 need to send its parts to Russia for service.
Practically, we have seen how F-16 pilots were 'drilling brain out' of SU-30 with its guns.
I also know you like to glorify the Israeli avionics, but its RCS takes every thing away.

 

[That Guy]

If you can't support your claim than don't even mention it... there's plenty of info. that the BVR of SU-30 (glorified SU-27) have poor seeker and its hit rate is very poor.
RCS of SU-27/30 is the perhaps twice of JF-17, but you are free to see it as an advantage.
SU-30 is only good for bombing missions and carrying load and fuel, but without smart and efficient wepons, this quality go down to zero.
Turn around time of SU-30 is so more than twice of JF-17, translating for PAF as more a/c in air.
JF-17 can have major overhaul at forward airbases, and double engine SU-30 need to send its parts to Russia for service.
Practically, we have seen how F-16 pilots were 'drilling brain out' of SU-30 with its guns.
I also know you like to glorify the Israeli avionics, but its RCS takes every thing away.

When have I glorified Israeli avionics? Not only are your posting misinformation, but you're outright lying about me.

Like I said before, the information is already publicly available, I'm not going to waste time explaining in extreme detail why you're wrong when you've proven to me in the past that you don't listen to anything I say and stick with your flawed narrative.

 

[SQ8]

Let`s hit the Nail on Head, Gentleman....

- PAF has 19.5 Fighter Sqns.
- F16 Comprise 3 Sqn. - 2Sqn Block 15 A/B and 1 Sqn Bock 52
- F16 Jordan are yet again, Block 15 A/B
- Yanks are they Selling you - AIM -9/AIM-7/AIM-120 C-7
- Purchage of 13 Block 15s will lead to 4th Sqn

2 F16 A/BSqns -
-Turkish Upgrade - will not lead to change to APG 68 (V- 5/ V-4) Radar
-Will the Engines for Block 15 be changed to F110-GE-129
-Will the EW pods be changed to ALQ-131 Block II
If none of above Core systems will be changed as part of Turkish Upgrade then My Friend your last Statemet was a "Pure Tounge in Cheek Comment". 4 Sqns wont make a Difference.

Statement -
1) MIG21 Bison with GCR and Phalacon Support is Quite a Formidable system.
2) My Israeli Brats have also wispered some codes in my ear. In return for some favours...

Statement - My FOE is China, W.A.C & S.W.A.C is ample to Manage Paf

Block 15 is not going to take in GE engines as its bay is only fitted for PW-F-100. The engine remains the same.
The EW pods are the ITT ALQ-211 which are better than the ALQ-131
Please read
Exelis - AIDEWS

Radar is to be changed to APG-68 V(9).. again read before going on a jingositic posting tirade.

statement
1) jingoistic speculative bullshit
2) Not even speculation.. pure bull SHIT.

 

[BATMAN]

When have I glorified Israeli avionics? Not only are your posting misinformation, but you're outright lying about me.

Like I said before, the information is already publicly available, I'm not going to waste time explaining in extreme detail why you're wrong when you've proven to me in the past that you don't listen to anything I say and stick with your flawed narrative.

You are glorifying SU-30, in your posts regularly, without any supportive material, it is natural to get intercepted once a while.
When IAF chief himself, has declared it 'khokha' without Israili avionoics, than i was thinking, what else are you going to mention worthwhile?
So, do not over act, while beign an official. Every day you bunch, lie about me.
Again, it is you who have ignored, the truth i wrote about your SU-30 and i learned this info., only over internet, which you probably overlooked.
USAF pilot describes IAF Su-30MKI performance at Red Flag-08 - The DEW Line
Do you have any thing more authentic and credible?

 

[That Guy]

You are glorifying SU-30, in your posts regularly, without any supportive material, it is natural to get intercepted once a while.
When IAF chief himself, has declared it 'khokha' without Israili avionoics, than i was thinking, what else are you going to mention worthwhile?
So, do not over act, while beign an official. Every day you guys lie about me.
Again, it is you who have ignored, the truth i wrote about your SU-30 and i learned this info., only over internet, which you probably overlooked.
USAF pilot describes IAF Su-30MKI performance at Red Flag-08 - The DEW Line
Do you have any thing more authentic and credible?

You said I was glorifying Israeli avionics, now you're saying I'm glorifying Su-30. Really, where are you getting this from? I don't understand how your mind works, are you seriously using strawman arguments to prove your point?

Again, this info is all available on the forums, a simple google search will prove it. A thread was started 4 years ago debating this very thing...

Pakistan's New F-16 Block 52 vs SU 30 MKI.

There is more info on other sites...

Sukhoi 30MKI versus F-15 and F-16 - F-16 versus XYZ

Again, I'm not going to explain shit to you, when you can look for info on this common knowledge yourself. Would you ask someone to prove to you that air exists? No, it's common knowledge.

This is my last reply to you. Don't bother me again.

-That Guy

 

[BATMAN]

You said I was glorifying Israeli avionics, now you're saying I'm glorifying Su-30. Really, where are you getting this from? I don't understand how your mind works, are you seriously using strawman arguments to prove your point?

Again, this info is all available on the forums, a simple google search will prove it. A thread was started 4 years ago debating this very thing...

Pakistan's New F-16 Block 52 vs SU 30 MKI.

There is more info on other sites...

Sukhoi 30MKI versus F-15 and F-16 - F-16 versus XYZ

Again, I'm not going to explain shit to you, when you can look for info on this common knowledge yourself. Would you ask someone to prove to you that air exists? No, it's common knowledge.

This is my last reply to you. Don't bother me again.

-That Guy

Get over the bigdeal... i further explained what i meant when i wrote 'you like to'

your links have no value, those are discussions on speculative specs. again of Israeli avionics, and even between those discussion, every one had ot accpet that SU-30 would be shot down by F-16 in both BVR and WVR battels. Actually, in redflag it was proven beyond doubt.
Now, if SU-30 was so superior than IAF chief should have not termed it 'khokha' and seeked other suppliers to counter, what they call the game changer.
SU-30 at max is a bomb truck and go search internet, what went behind its design philosophy of making it as such.

 

[PhoneyMember]

IF we are planning to get J-10s anyway at some point, would it not make more sense to start developing the necessary capabilities and expertise right now?

This seems to be a period of relative calm in the India-Pakistan relationship although, of course, one can never predict the future.

To grow, one must come out of the comfort zone..

J-10 program is tied to Indin mmrca and Chinese ability to produce enough WS-10 engines.
M