Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[GriffinsRule]

APS won't work against top attack munitions as they have a very limited field of view and the cost vs benefit does not suit us when you have to field it on thousands of tanks

 

[CriticalThought]

I agree with all except for the armour part ... Armoured is required to hold the ground and to stop enemy advance ... Except for the required air cover armour is key offense and defence equipments. Without armour in the front MLRS and other equipments are difficult to defend.

Furthermore remember where drone could be an excellent CAS system but its not a defensive equipment. With limited fire power and comparatively higher per hour cost using them to hold ground is unrealistic.

Armor are still important in any battlefield ...

It's an interesting discussion which would unfortunately take us off on a tangent. But there is a thread idea for you in it. 'The efficacy of armor on modern battlefields'. You create the thread, I'll respond.

 

[kursed]

While air dominance can be established, since it’s a time dependent phenomenon - much like on 27th. Whereby a strike corps dash can be ensured, while wrecking havoc at the enemy from the top.

I just don’t see how this strike corps will hold on to any victory or land - given both side’s access to mass scale MRLS, precision guided weaponry and surface to surface missiles capable of landing anti armor / personnel munition from hundreds of miles away.

It’s an interesting paradigm. In our case, the adversary would have to damage our war fighting capacity at theater level in order to hold on to any territory. I don’t see how that would happen, either. It's pretty much a stalemate.

 

[Armchair]

Yes Pakistan has thousands of ATGM's, which can take out their T-72's, and impact the T-90's. But they are not coming in by themselves, and the IA will be deploy tens of thousands infantry with them, including snipers who will aim to hit ATGM teams. The lessons of the Yon Kippur war are taught to every competent military.
You also have to remember that tanks can close the distance very quickly, so repeat salvos of ATGM's will not be as effective, and superior ground numbers will be on top of you.
Cluster bombs from the PAF? Well they have more than enough on their plate with the IAF, and we have no independent air wing defending the navy, so that's two major concerns for them.
It's a fact that we all have to contend with i.e. that due to the large land border we share with India, we need a great deal of tanks to blunt their amoured push.

This is why a dedicated PA Aviation with CAS would be most useful.

 

[Armchair]

As Pak moves towards importing a hi tech, heavy weight MBT like the VT4, perhaps local industry could focus on a different concept, rather than replicating vt4 type mbts locally.

Imagine a 2 man tank, driver and commander, armed with a 40mm autocannon, 8x atgms. Each having an hmd to cue weapons. Would be a perfect complement to the vt4.

They would be able to take out with the auto cannon everything below an MBT and use the atgms to take care of the mbts.

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

Yes Pakistan has thousands of ATGM's, which can take out their T-72's, and impact the T-90's. But they are not coming in by themselves, and the IA will be deploy tens of thousands infantry with them, including snipers who will aim to hit ATGM teams. The lessons of the Yon Kippur war are taught to every competent military.
You also have to remember that tanks can close the distance very quickly, so repeat salvos of ATGM's will not be as effective, and superior ground numbers will be on top of you.
Cluster bombs from the PAF? Well they have more than enough on their plate with the IAF, and we have no independent air wing defending the navy, so that's two major concerns for them.
It's a fact that we all have to contend with i.e. that due to the large land border we share with India, we need a great deal of tanks to blunt their amoured push.

ATGM teams won't be intimidated by snipers since they can't hit at the ranges of above 1km. ATGM teams will prove their metal in any war. Tank is a very potent weapon but ATGM can surely terrorize them and that too from 5-8 km away. Tanks will be massacred without Active protection systems as you are watching them getting killed in azerbaijan-armenia war. Just see the results of wars since 2006 israel-lebanon war. Tanks lost almost every competition against ATGMs. Now please don't say they did not know how to use tanks with infantry and Pakistan is the only country which knows how to use tanks and infantry. ATGM will kill the tank unless APS starts stopping it reliably.

 

[araz]

Thank you for the mention @Bratva. There were a lot of users here who typical of the local mentality negate you, wear you down in endless discussions as to prove that they know more than the other and pull him down, including think tanks and professionals which is saddening actually. There fore I'll request the mods again to redefine the criteria of this forum regarding the allotment of titles of Think Tanks, Professionals, and scrutinise again in order to improve the credibility. I think there was a Chinese member here constantly being negated by a think tank about the news of VT-4s being delivered for Pakistan such behaviours shouldn't be the acceptable norm here and must be taken to task. Eventually when the Tanks have been delivered All tom dick and harry Think tank, professional etc has jumped on the band wagon *I told/knew/now know more/ first syndrome*. Rules must be amended and scrutiny must be rigid and unforgiving. I believe it wasn't me but The Beast(Some Chinese member-I couldn't scroll the April chat) who brought the news first. Thanks to him the real discussion started while our local desis were constantly negating him.
Now coming over the real deal:
VT-4s are alive and kicking.
Apologies for the colour scheme I couldn't look at the pictures more clearly.
As far as Zulus are concerned:
Negotiations under way for a way forward. Rest can't tell much. I had mentioned about 2 landing but that needs to be corrected-Those 2 birds were something else. Not Zulus.
As far as the realisation of Armed Forces DevPlan 2030 goes: Lots of Goodies on the way. I can spill the beans with no liabilities, but then you'll complain of wastage of Bandwith. But eventually you'll be seeing that stuff in operational roles and be surprised just like VT-4s surprised you all.
Have a great day all.

please visit the TTC section for Professionals Pak eyes only and put the matter up and you will be responded to. At the moment this is all we can say.
Kind regards

 

[OgaBoga]

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Congratulations to Pakistan on acquiring the most powerful and dominant MBT in the region. May it be the first of many such acquisitions.

 

[waz]

ATGM teams won't be intimidated by snipers since they can't hit at the ranges of above 1km. ATGM teams will prove their metal in any war. Tank is a very potent weapon but ATGM can surely terrorize them and that too from 5-8 km away. Tanks will be massacred without Active protection systems as you are watching them getting killed in azerbaijan-armenia war. Just see the results of wars since 2006 israel-lebanon war. Tanks lost almost every competition against ATGMs. Now please don't say they did not know how to use tanks with infantry and Pakistan is the only country which knows how to use tanks and infantry. ATGM will kill the tank unless APS starts stopping it reliably.

ATGM teams will be in danger as they're not going to engage from maximum range, rather come in. In the fog of war it's very difficult to keep track of such operators. You might say but Pakistan's infantry can deal with them, but that is not the case as it would give away ATGM placed teams, who massively rely on cover and surprise to be effective.
ATGM can terrorise tanks, but we're talking about the PAK/INDO theatre here, and many will come with point ATP systems.
With the 2006 Lebanon conflict, Hizbollah had no other option i.e. they don't have the funds for tanks. The terrain suited them i.e. well fortified urban positions, clear field of view, so hence near perfect environment for ATGMS's. Also remember Hizbollah allowed the Israelis to come in and hit them on their land, knowing full well the Israelis were not willing to engage in saturation for the sake of land they have no intention of occupying. That's NOT the case with the Indian army, which will occupy land, use FOB's, and reinforce positions as launching areas for deeper pushes with their superior numbers.
Leaving a region to be just defended by ATGM teams and drones is as good as a shot in the dark. There's simply too much that can go wrong.
The army is investing greatly in such measures, but they'll only be used as an addition, another tool to stem an Indian onslaught, and never the go to measure.
Tanks are the spearhead that will smash IA formations on the border, and that's why you see so much investment in them.

 

[waz]

I feel that the role of air borne drones has not been given the importance that it should receive. It would be far cheaper to manufacture and operate large numbers of CAS type drones equipped with an indigenous Hellfire type missile. I guess one of the objectives of Azm is exactly that. And if that comes to pass, I feel the requirements of PA with regards to armor could change over the coming years.

Another overlooked equipment is IFVs equipped with missiles. They have the dual benefits of bringing both firepower and infantry to the battlefield.

And finally, there are MLRS for really big firepower. What is the use of a large amount of armor when these alternatives are available?

These are all great PLUS's, along with powerful armoured formations.

 

[Figaro]

ATGM teams will be in danger as they're not going to engage from maximum range, rather come in. In the fog of war it's very difficult to keep track of such operators. You might say but Pakistan's infantry can deal with them, but that is not the case as it would give away ATGM placed teams, who massively rely on cover and surprise to be effective.
ATGM can terrorise tanks, but we're talking about the PAK/INDO theatre here, and many will come with point ATP systems.
With the 2006 Lebanon conflict, Hizbollah had no other option i.e. they don't have the funds for tanks. The terrain suited them i.e. well fortified urban positions, clear field of view, so hence near perfect environment for ATGMS's. Also remember Hizbollah allowed the Israelis to come in and hit them on their land, knowing full well the Israelis were not willing to engage in saturation for the sake of land they have no intention of occupying. That's NOT the case with the Indian army, which will occupy land, use FOB's, and reinforce positions as launching areas for deeper pushes with their superior numbers.
Leaving a region to be just defended by ATGM teams and drones is as good as a shot in the dark. There's simply too much that can go wrong.
The army is investing greatly in such measures, but they'll only be used as an addition, another tool to stem an Indian onslaught, and never the go to measure.
Tanks are the spearhead that will smash IA formations on the border, and that's why you see so much investment in them.

The problem is that there is no fundamental barrier like the Himalayas mountain range to separate Pakistan and India. A big chunk of the border is just flat desert terrain, which is ideal for maneuver warfare. Pakistan will have to try its best to match India on the ground because breakthroughs are achieved on the ground ... the war in the air will more than likely brawl into a war of attrition in which no side has a significant advantage over the other. Even in the Persian Gulf War, the US still fought a couple of massive tank battles against the Iraqis even though they had been pummeled by complete US air superiority for a month ...

 

[waz]

The problem is that there is no fundamental barrier like the Himalayas mountain range to separate Pakistan and India. A big chunk of the border is just flat desert terrain, which is ideal for maneuver warfare. Pakistan will have to try its best to match India on the ground because breakthroughs are achieved on the ground ... the war in the air will more than likely brawl into a war of attrition in which no side has a significant advantage over the other. Even in the Persian Gulf War, the US still fought a couple of massive tank battles against the Iraqis even though they had been pummeled by complete US air superiority for a month ...

That's right it's literally perfect tank country, you couldn't ask for more, unlike Kashmir.

This is what we face;

Yes it's also bluster, but these forces won't be stopped without tanks.

 

[GriffinsRule]

What is the intent or purpose of these vertical addons to the upper hull? Slots for era plates perhaps to be added as needed?

 

[Ghost 125]

What is the intent or purpose of these vertical addons to the upper hull? Slots for era plates perhaps to be added as needed?

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