Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Ahmet Pasha]

TUSAS is making a turkish turbo-shaft engine for helos.
Letting French in would be like letting NATO sabotage the whole deal.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post, so in the spirit of clarity and having meaningful discussion, I will explain it in better words. I didn't imply that what you said was "horse-shit," rather the information source is dubious, unreliable and excuse my french ... full of shit. The BBC is a master at churning out twisted and deceptive misinformation. They have a history to prove their sparkling accolades for deceiving the world.

Britain had no power at the time to unilaterally nuke Argentina. For starters, America wouldn't have allowed it. As bruised as their egos might get, that is a fact and there is no arguing it. Also, france wouldn't give it's missile codings based on some threat britain makes at Argentina. The story doesn't fit, has no basis to add up and is yet another ridiculous web of lies if in fact the BBC or British PM said so.

We as Muslims, Pakistanis really ought to start looking at information through the lense of reality. Britain ain't a saint, never was, never will be. It's history is a testament to this fact. Believing their stories is an insult to our intelligence. Please be more critical of the information. France had no dog in this fight, nor did it have any benefit to gain from saving the Argentinians from being nuked. They aren't as benevolent as the British story portrays the french to be. For eight years 1946-1954, the french attempted to recover it's colonization of Vietnam. Colonialists are all the same, period.

The claim by brits that their PM threatened to nuke Argentina is bullshit. Only two superpowers existed at the time, United States and Soviet Union. No other country had the balls to unilaterally nuke another country besides USA & USSR.



Does Turkey own any western or domestic engine design bureau or engine manufacturing plants where they build the whole engine on their own? As far as I recall, the LHTEC T8004A engines are joint development export variant engine, which includes american Honeywell, british Rolls-Royce and some italian firm. The $1.5 billion deal for 30 T129 helos is in jeopardy, as turks face american wrath for buying S-400s and fight against american backed Syrian Kurds. Pakistan may also be targeted in the turk-american spate, since Pakistan has not been listening american's request of doing more against Haqqani Group. Last news I heard was the poles and french were offering to fill the engine void created by american pull out.

 

[Nasr]

TUSAS is making a turkish turbo-shaft engine for helos.
Letting French in would be like letting NATO sabotage the whole deal.

The news report stated that the french and the poles have offered their engines. It doesn't mean that this is the course of action Pakistan would take. As for TUSAS making their own turbo shaft engines. If TUSAS was already proficient at making turbo shaft engines, why were they not included in the deal with Pakistan. Also, it would take several years before Turkey git anything close to resembjngs

 

[araz]

Support us The Guardian - Menu Thatcher 'threatened to nuke Argentina' Jon Henley in Paris @jonhenley Mon 21 Nov 2005 20.18 ESTFirst published on Mon 21 Nov 2005 20.18 EST Margaret Thatcher forced François Mitterrand to give her the codes to disable Argentina's deadly French-made missiles during the Falklands war by threatening to launch a nuclear warhead against Buenos Aires, according to a book. Rendez-vous - the psychoanalysis of François Mitterrand, by Ali Magoudi, who met the late French president up to twice a week in secrecy at his Paris practice from 1982 to 1984, also reveals that Mr Mitterrand believed he would get his "revenge" by building a tunnel under the Channel which would forever destroy Britain's island status. The book, to be published on Friday, is one of several on France's first Socialist president to mark the 10th anniversary of his death on January 8 1996. Despite a now tarnished reputation, he remains a source of fascination for the French in general and the left in particular. Rendez-vous provides revealing insights into the man's mysterious character, complicated past, paranoia and power complex, but nothing as titillating as his remarks on the former British prime minister. "Excuse me. I had a difference to settle with the Iron Lady. That Thatcher, what an impossible woman!" the president said as he arrived, more than 45 minutes late, on May 7 1982. "With her four nuclear submarines in the south Atlantic, she's threatening to unleash an atomic weapon against Argentina if I don't provide her with the secret codes that will make the missiles we sold the Argentinians deaf and blind." He reminded Mr Magoudi that on May 4 an Exocet missile had struck HMS Sheffield. "To make matters worse, it was fired from a Super-Etendard jet," he said. "All the matériel was French!" In words that the psychoanalyst has sworn to the publisher, Meren Sell, are genuine, the president continued: "She's livid. She blames me personally for this new Trafalgar ... I was obliged to give in. She's got them now, the codes." Mr Mitterrand - who once described Mrs Thatcher as "the eyes of Caligula and the mouth of Marilyn Monroe" - went on: "One cannot win against the insular syndrome of an unbridled Englishwoman. Provoke a nuclear war for a few islands inhabited by three sheep as hairy as they are freezing! But it's a good job I gave way. Otherwise, I assure you, the Lady's metallic finger would have hit the button." France, he insisted, would have the last word. "I'll build a tunnel under the Channel. I'll succeed where Napoleon III failed. And do you know why she'll accept my tunnel? I'll flatter her shopkeeper's spirit. I'll tell her it won't cost the Crown a penny." Topics World news France Politics past Argentina Europe Share on LinkedInShare on PinterestShare on WhatsAppShare on Messenger View on theguardian.com About usContact usComplaints & correctionsSecure DropWork for usPrivacy policyCookie policyTerms & conditionsHelpAll topicsAll writersDigital newspaper archiveFacebookTwitterAdvertise with usGuardian LabsSearch jobs Support The Guardian ContributeSubscribe Back to top © 2019 Guardian News and Media Limited or its affiliated companies. All rights reserved.



To all the nay sayers this is a 2005 article from the Guardian. You can believe it or not. Iam done here. I just dont have the time to argue this so take it or leave it.
A

 

[Nasr]

To all the nay sayers this is a 2005 article from the Guardian. You can believe it or not. Iam done here. I just dont have the time to argue this so take it or leave it.
A

Thank you for posting the article, it is appreciated. Hope you got what I was trying to impart to you. Best regards dear friend.

 

[araz]

Thank you for posting the article, it is appreciated. Hope you got what I was trying to impart to you. Best regards dear friend.

Kind regards indeed dear friend. It is nice to ve able to argue sensibly without being called a traitor or accused of spreading horse shit ( I dont hold anything against anyone and the remark is tongue in cheek rather than an angry one) Anyways lets move on.
A

 

[Gryphon]

IDEAS 2018 Private - Turkish Aerospace Industry Prepares for ATAK Delivery

February 12, 2019

The news in the IDEAS 2018 Special File in the 171th issue of MSI is shared on the magazine's website:


In July, following the signing of an agreement covering 30 T129 ATAK helicopters with Pakistan, the main focus of Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) on IDEAS was ATAK helicopter. TUSAŞ Corporate Marketing and Communications President Tamer Özmen evaluated the process of selling ATAK helicopters to Pakistan, the process is progressing as it should be. We made application for the systems subject to export permit in the helicopter. Of course, Turkish-American and Pakistan-American relations are important. We do not foresee a situation that will prevent the release. Pakistan, Turkey with their own money, want to use it as a platform that is very active in the fight against terrorism.

Deputy Defense Minister Muhsin Dere, Pakistan Land Forces Chief of Staff Nadeem Raza and TAI Corporate Marketing and Communication Chairman Tamer Ozmen.

This platform if they are not from Turkey, the United States is not an alternative. Pakistan already has other model attack helicopters. Therefore, Pakistan will not have the ability to launch attack helicopters for the first time. Such a reason for export permit cannot be put forward. Our expectation is to obtain export permits in the first months of 2019. There is no concern in Pakistan.

T129 ATAK

TAI also talks with Pakistan for ANKA unmanned aerial vehicles. Regarding ANKA, Özmen said both the Navy and the Air Force are interested. ANKA, an operational system and do the task successfully in Turkey, where it is being carefully monitored. "he said.

Özmen stated that they work actively in the region: We are working intensively in this geography. We have expectations for 2019. We're not coming here with any negative news. Of course, it may take some time for the talks to be reflected in the contracts. When there is a platform sale, you are actually starting a relationship that will last 20 to 40 years with the logistic dimension. It is very important that both ATAK and ANKA are used by Turkish Armed Forces. ATAK was tested in Pakistan under very difficult conditions and successfully passed these tests. The world knows it. This helicopter was tested in places where no one dared to take his helicopter. Thus, ATAK showed that it is an unrivaled product for everyone. If we start ATAK's delivery to Pakistan in 2019, it will contribute to our efforts in the region.

Turkish Aviation and Space Industry's IDEAS 2018 team, together with officials from the Turkish delegation.


Translated from:
IDEAS 2018 Özel – Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii, ATAK Teslimatı için Hazırlanıyor | milscint.com

 

[IceCold]

When are we going to get them? Any chance these will be here on 23rd March?

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Great News indeed.
2019 might see some examples to be delivered.

 

[Gryphon]

The contract towards the sale of 30 T129B ATAK Light Attack and Tactical Reconnaissance Helicopters to Pakistan Land Forces was signed on 16 May 2018, yet it did not enter into effect as of 25 September 2018 and (T+0) was not launched. As the validity period of the contract will be ending in November 2018, the stipulations required for the effect of the contract should be fulfilled until that date. According to the information we received, Pakistan made the down-payment in compliance with the contract and the Program Management Revision (PMR) meeting was decided to be held within October. Official application to the U.S. Government regarding the export license of the LHTEC CTS800-4A turboshaft engine utilized on the helicopter was made, the process was completed in the Foreign Affairs Commission and the request was submitted to the U.S. Department of Defence. The approval process was still underway as of 25 September. Turkish Aerospace previously received the Original License Document from the U.S. Government for the sale/export of the T129B to Pakistan. In line with the information we received, regarding the Project, which is expected to cost US$1.5 Billion, Pakistan will be making the payment of the credit granted by Turkey, from its own budget and in installments on a schedule extending 10 years. Even though negative feedback is not expected from the U.S. Government regarding the export license of the CTS800-4A turboshaft engine, negotiations with the company Turbomeca, part of the French Safran Group, are being conducted on alternative engine options as an alternative solution. Previously, within the scope of the tender that was opened in order to fulfill the engine requests of the Turkish Multi Role Helicopter (T625) (civil and military versions) Turbomeca competed with the Arrano (TM800) solution with 100% ‘ITAR Free’ characteristics and with 1.100shp to 1.300shp power capacity, yet in the tender finalized in April 2015 the winner was LHTEC Company with the CTS800-4AT engine.

Excerpt from:

Seen and Heard at the ADEX 2018 Exhibition | defenceturkey.com
by İbrahim SÜNNETÇİ




The Pakistan Army’s T129 ATAK Helicopters will have a similar configuration with that of the Turkish Army’s T129Bs and the first batch of 10 helicopters would be delivered in T129B Phase-I configuration and the remaining 20 helicopters in T129B Phase-II configuration. At the final phase of the program the first batch of 10 helicopters will be upgraded to Phase-II configuration.


The fuselage production of T129 Mk-I ATAK Multirole Combat Helicopters for the first export customer Pakistan started in the second half of 2018. If the problems in the agreement regarding the export license of the engines can be solved, pilot training is expected to start within 2019 with the first two T129B1 Helicopters to be completed and the helicopters will be delivered to Pakistan in 2020.

Excerpt from:

T129 ATAK Multirole Combat Helicopter and MilDaR Fire Control Radar | defenceturkey.com
by İbrahim SÜNNETÇİ

 

[mingle]

According to Ahmed tipu Pak Army Aviation is looking 30 more ATAK Heli after these 30 so we looking total numbers 60.

 

[syed_yusuf]

According to Ahmed tipu Pak Army Aviation is looking 30 more ATAK Heli after these 30 so we looking total numbers 60.

why don't Pakistan assemble them in the country

 

[mingle]

why don't Pakistan assemble them in the country

Not sure but I read on twitter means we going big with turks . I also read today on Ahmed twitter US offered Pak scout Helis MD530G let's see 2.5 million brand new I thing 25 to 30 of them can compliment cobras

 

[The Accountant]

why don't Pakistan assemble them in the country

I think they will be assembled in Pakistan with repair and maintenance facility in pakistan

 

[Gryphon]

Not sure but I read on twitter means we going big with turks . I also read today on Ahmed twitter US offered Pak scout Helis MD530G let's see 2.5 million brand new I thing 25 to 30 of them can compliment cobras

Pakistan Army has selected the Fennec as its armed recon / light attack helicopter. When more examples arrive, ageing JetRangers used by Cobra squadrons for scout role will be retired.

MD 530 was offered to PA several years ago when procurement of the first batch of 10 Fennec's ran into trouble and the OEM considered selling these to Philippines.



Btw, there are rumours Bell is looking for a buyer for 12 AH-1Z's built for Pakistan and the USMC has shown willingness to induct these into its inventory.

 

[Mir Shahzain]

@Zara Ali @Quwa What are main features which differs Type A & Type B