Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Zarvan]

Forwarded by a Turkish friend:

“"Pakistan is a tough customer," he said. We went to Himalayal for high altitude tests, we went to the deserts to test the helicopter in hot conditions at 52C. ATAK has been tested for four years. This is a kind diploma if you are selling a helicopter to Pakistan, then all countries will be interested, "he said.

Visual Information highlighted TAI's focus on the Atak II model in the future.”

TAI Marketing manager said this.

After Pakistan, Morocco, Thailand and Bangladesh are also interested in ATAK.

 

[AKINCI]

Atak Engine Waits for November

C4Defence reveals how Turkish Aerospace Industries (TUSAS) will work on getting export license for T-129 Atak helicopter engines will be exported to Pakistan. Pakistan has recently inked a deal with TUSAS to acquire 30 T-129 Atak Helicopter.

The IP rights of the helicopter engine are in the hands of LHTEC, a joint venture between the US firm Honeywell and the UK firm Rolls-Royce.

C4Defence has learned that prior applying for an official permission there were other steps to be passed. The "adviser opinion" process has been successfully completed. The "Advice Opinion" has been made available. This means US Government may bring the sale of such goods in agenda during official discussions. It means they can say they like the product. Such phrases indicate that US is aware of negotiations and supports it.

For a commercial product, it is necessary to obtain export licenses from the US Trade Secretary, for military ones from Pentagon. Engine that Turkey needs to sell to Pakistan requires Pentagon’s export licence. According to the negotiations between Turkey and Pakistan, the decision should be taken until November

http://en.c4defence.com/Agenda/atak-engine-waits-for-november/6819/1

 

[Armchair]

View attachment 487442 A genuine compliment or exaggeration to sell more?
Big words
@Bilal Khan 777 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Armchair @khanasifm @fatman17 @Windjammer

I think there is definitely an element of truth as attack helicopters have consistently had problems being combat effective at altitude (tall mountains). Apaches have had serious problems in Afghanistan and in Kosovo. Attack helicopters were first designed for Vietnam as escorts for heli-borne forces. This was part of a philosophy being pursued of an air cavalry, or a new form of maneuver warfare. Later, it became a way for US Army to continue to have an organic air component, as they were banned from fixed wing CAS.

Most countries that purchase attack helicopters do so in a vacuum lacking this historical narrative and they want to see were they can use it. Countries with hot and high conditions will look at Pakistan's purchase as this will be a stamp of approval, given the competitive selection.

 

[SQ8]

Forwarded by a Turkish friend:

“"Pakistan is a tough customer," he said. We went to Himalayal for high altitude tests, we went to the deserts to test the helicopter in hot conditions at 52C. ATAK has been tested for four years. This is a kind diploma if you are selling a helicopter to Pakistan, then all countries will be interested, "he said.

Visual Information highlighted TAI's focus on the Atak II model in the future.”

TAI Marketing manager said this.

After Pakistan, Morocco, Thailand and Bangladesh are also interested in ATAK.

Its already posted here two weeks back. Also coming in flightglobal as part of their interview.

 

[Windjammer]

The T-129 being put through it's paces in Pakistan.

 

[shawn52]

WE Have Everything to face our enemies

 

[Beast]

With Turkey and US r/s worsen until the stage of no repair. How will it affect T-129 sales? Sure we know American will deny export of LH-500 engine for T-129 attack helo. I do heard the news of turkey successfully tested a domestic turboshaft but the timeline to real operation production will not be ready soon.

 

[YeBeWarned]

With Turkey and US r/s worsen until the stage of no repair. How will it affect T-129 sales? Sure we know American will deny export of LH-500 engine for T-129 attack helo. I do heard the news of turkey successfully tested a domestic turboshaft but the timeline to real operation production will not be ready soon.

It won't get effected , as long as Turkey-US relations goes to the point of no return .. plus i think Turkey and Pakistan both have discussed this issue before hand signing the deal of 1.5 B$ for 30 choppers , so i think so far we are good and Deliveries will be starting on time .. can't say about AH-Z1

 

[Chimgathar]

Well the Italian Agusta A129 Mangusta uses Rolls-Royce Gem 2-1004D turboshaft engines, cant these be used for T-129s?

 

[GriffinsRule]

Well the Italian Agusta A129 Mangusta uses Rolls-Royce Gem 2-1004D turboshaft engines, cant these be used for T-129s?

No, they are underpowered engines

 

[BHarwana]

The T-129 order will be completed in 5 years. With 1 helicopter completed every 2 months.

 

[Chimgathar]

1 helo per 2 months seems too good to be true for TAI, its a complex gunship helo requires system plus weapons testing prior delivery

 

[Gryphon]

Excerpt from:

T129 ATAK Helicopters and ADA Class Corvettes Sale to Pakistan
by İbrahim SÜNNETÇİ

According to an Election Manifesto of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party), which was announced on May 24, 2018, Ankara and Islamabad have signed a deal for the sale of 30 T129 ATAK helicopters to Pakistan. The confirmation of the anticipated sale was revealed at the Defence, Aerospace and Space Section of the AK Party’s election manifesto, which was released ahead of the June 24, Presidential and General Election. The election manifesto states that, “a very short while ago a contract for the sale of 30 T129 ATAK helicopters was signed with Pakistan”.

After around two months on July 13, 2018 both the SSB (as of July 10th, 2018 the name of Undersecretariat for Defence Industries [SSM] was changed to the Presidency of Defence Industries [SSB]) and Turkish Aerospace (Turkish Aerospace Industries [TAI] was rebranded as Turkish Aerospace [TA] on July 11, 2018) have issued statements to confirm the T129 sale to Pakistan.

The SSB announced that Turkey and Pakistan have finalized a deal for Pakistan’s purchase of 30 T129 Advanced Attack and Tactical Reconnaissance Helicopters (ATAK). “Contract negotiations on T129 ATAK helicopters between Turkish Aerospace (TA) and the Pakistani Ministry of Defence Production were finalized,” the Presidency said in a statement. “This is one of the biggest single defence export deals for Turkish Industry”, the statement said without specifying the value of the contract. However, according to sources the value of the contract is around US$1.5 Billion. The Turkish Government has been working to allocate US$1.5 Billion in credit to Pakistan to finance this deal. According to TA’s statement under the contract the Pakistan Army will receive 30 T129 ATAK Helicopters and a comprehensive package of support measures, to include logistics, munitions, spare parts, ground support equipment and training. Turkish Aerospace will start Pakistan Army’s T129Bs deliveries in next three to four months and complete them by the end of 2022. Under the Pakistan Army T129 ATAK Helicopter Project, TA has also offered Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) parts manufacturing work for the T129 helicopters.

Sources revealed to DEFENCE TURKEY that the Pakistan Army’s T129 ATAK Helicopters will have similar configuration with Turkish Army’s T129Bs and the first batch of 10 helicopters would be delivered in T129B Phase I configuration and the remaining 20 helicopters in T129B Phase II configuration. At the final phase of the program first batch 10 helicopters will be upgraded to Phase II configuration. The major differences between Phase I and Phase II are at the FLIR payload and at EW Self-Protection Suit. At Phase II T129Bs contrary to AselFLIR-300T EO/IR Targeting System new generation CATS (Common Aperture Targeting System) Reconnaissance, Surveillance and Targeting System will be deployed. Although it is lighter and smaller than the second generation AselFLIR-300T used in T129A/B Helicopters and Heron and ANKA Unmanned Air Vehicles, it stands out with its superior features. The CATS, which weighs 60kgs is lighter than the AselFLIR-300T weighing 120kgs. While the T129As and T129B Phase I helicopters are equipped with only AN/ALQ-144 IRCM, ÖzIşık CMDS and MWS-TU Missile Warning System (MWS) sensors the Phase II T129Bs will also feature Radar Warning Receiver (RWR), Radio Frequency Jammer (RFJ), Laser Warning Receiver (LWR) and 9681 V/UHF Radio sets.

On July 5, Aselsan received a US$254.725,195 Million contract from Turkish Aerospace (TA). Deliveries under the contract will take place during 2018-2022. This order probably has been given under the Pakistan Army T129 ATAK Helicopter Project.

Turkish Aerospace (TA) is the Prime Contractor of the T129 ATAK Program, covering the manufacture and delivery of 9 T129As, 50 T129Bs (29 in Phase I and 21 in Phase II configurations) to the Turkish Land Forces and 27 T129Bs to the Turkish Ministry of Interior (18 T129Bs to the Turkish Gendarmerie General Command and 9 T129Bs to the Turkish Police) under license from the Italian-British AgustaWestland (rebranded as Leonardo Helicopters in 2016). TA manufactures and delivers two T129s per month. As of July 2018, TA has completed the delivery of 36 T129A/Bs (9A and 27Bs) to the Turkish Land Forces and 3 T129Bs to the Gendarmerie General Command.

The TA/Leonardo Helicopters T129 is a twin-engine, tandem seat, multi-role, all-weather attack helicopter based on the Agusta A129C Mangusta International platform. According to SSB figures each T129 ATAK Attack & Tactical Reconnaissance Helicopter costs around US$40 Million.

The T129B ATAK Helicopters sale to Pakistan would mark a significant breakthrough for the Turkish Defence & Aerospace Industry and would be the largest ever defence system export in a single project achieved to date by a Turkish defence company. This record was held by Otokar with a sale worth US$661 Million for the RABDAN 8x8 Amphibious Armoured Combat Vehicle to the UAE.

As per the Pakistan Army Aviation Command’s official request one of T129 prototypes [tail number P6] performed high altitude and high temperature flight/endurance tests during May 20-31, 2016 in Pakistan and confirmed that the helicopter fully meets Army requirements. As part of endurance tests the T129 P6 carried out three high temperature flight tests at Pano Aqil with an average temperature of 50C, and in Pano Agal climbed to 14,000ft altitude in Hindikush. T129 P6 also performed long-range flight during sand storm from Quetta to Multan, which is base to FOB 2 hours and 40 minutes without refuelling. According to Pakistani media no other current attack helicopter has managed these tests so the T129 is the best that the Pakistan Army has seen. On March 23, 2018 a formation of three T129 ATAK Helicopters from the Turkish Land Forces took part during a military parade held in Islamabad, Pakistan.

 

[khanasifm]

What parts are pac share or it’s still tbd?? Are part share for all orders including Turkish and foreign or just for 30 for paa ?

 

[monitor]

Unless Turkey solve the engine issue by delivering indigenous engine for T-129 it could be troublesome for it's customers. We also had interest in T-129 but now Russian options are considered as later have commonality with mi-117 and no issues of parts./engine.