Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[MastanKhan]

 

[polanski]

With Turkey and US r/s worsen until the stage of no repair. How will it affect T-129 sales? Sure we know American will deny export of LH-500 engine for T-129 attack helo. I do heard the news of turkey successfully tested a domestic turboshaft but the timeline to real operation production will not be ready soon.

Currently, the Congress passed no legislation which stops OEM companies supplying engines or spares to Turkey.

Turkey has a vast Industrial cooperation with the US. Besides the engine can be outsourced from the UK, the US and Italy if Pakistan wants. The same type of engine is used in many helicopters in the west.
This deal is more important to Turkey than just the helicopter.

 

[-------]

Currently, the Congress passed no legislation which stops OEM companies supplying engines or spares to Turkey.

Turkey has a vast Industrial cooperation with the US. Besides the engine can be outsourced from the UK, the US and Italy if Pakistan wants. The same type of engine is used in many helicopters in the west.
This deal is more important to Turkey than just the helicopter.

I'd also like to point out that T-129 uses a civilian export engine, so it's even more so difficult for the US to block engines on a single type.

 

[polanski]

FYI
Pratt & Whitney and GE supply marine propulsion and aircraft engines to Russia and China.
Harbin, Comac and Sukhoi use American engines for commercial aircraft and helicopters.
Dual purpose Technology and commercial off the shelf Technology are readily available to everyone in the planet.
Turkey, Italy, France and Sweden started to use COTS and dual purpose Technology to avoid ITAR regulation.
People please calm down, there is zero impact on the deal as off now.

 

[LKJ86]

FYI
Pratt & Whitney and GE supply marine propulsion and aircraft engines to Russia and China.
Harbin, Comac and Sukhoi use American engines for commercial aircraft and helicopters.
Dual purpose Technology and commercial off the shelf Technology are readily available to everyone in the planet.

They are all for civil use.

 

[monitor]

They are all for civil use.

What's the main deference between civilian and military version engine ?

 

[LKJ86]

What's the main deference between civilian and military version engine ?

It is not about the difference between them, but about the permission.

 

[polanski]

What's the main deference between civilian and military version engine ?

It depends which one you are considering. For T-129, its commercially available engine with few tweaks to accommodate engine on the Helo.
As off now, Helicopters and drones are out of CAATSA regulations. Fighter Jet and missiles are more regulated except the Arab can get their hands on almost anything for obvious reason $$$. Fighter Jet and Helicopter engines are less regulated.

The NATO, Australia, Middle East, Pakistan and India acquired Helicopter without any objection.
I have enough reason to believe that T-129 is on the track to be exported.
America only block export of any products, civil or military if its directly compete with American products. Every country does the same thing. China would do same thing if its compete with Chinese products.

The most cases the US checks pros and cons, later approve for export. Pakistan's recent democratic transition and peaceful handover over of power deserve huge credit. The US take into account everything then approve weapons export. T-129 is good to go, as off Tuesday 4th September 2018.

 

[denel]

I do believe Rooivalk should be evaluated. Given you already have experience with Puma platform; this will serve as a 2 prong TOT feasibility - Both on the oryx platform as a medium lift helo as well as gunship.

 

[YeBeWarned]

As part of endurance tests the T129 P6 carried out three high temperature flight tests at Pano Aqil with an average temperature of 50C, and in Pano Agal climbed to 14,000ft altitude in Hindikush. T129 P6 also performed long-range flight during sand storm from Quetta to Multan, which is base to FOB 2 hours and 40 minutes without refuelling. According to Pakistani media no other current attack helicopter has managed these tests so the T129 is the best that the Pakistan Army has seen. On March 23, 2018 a formation of three T129 ATAK Helicopters from the Turkish Land Forces took part during a military parade held in Islamabad, Pakistan.

@cabatli_53 @T-123456 @Sinan @Hakikat ve Hikmet guys the bold part should make you proud

 

[denel]

As part of endurance tests the T129 P6 carried out three high temperature flight tests at Pano Aqil with an average temperature of 50C, and in Pano Agal climbed to 14,000ft altitude in Hindikush. T129 P6 also performed long-range flight during sand storm from Quetta to Multan, which is base to FOB 2 hours and 40 minutes without refuelling. According to Pakistani media no other current attack helicopter has managed these tests so the T129 is the best that the Pakistan Army has seen. On March 23, 2018 a formation of three T129 ATAK Helicopters from the Turkish Land Forces took part during a military parade held in Islamabad, Pakistan.

@cabatli_53 @T-123456 @Sinan @Hakikat ve Hikmet guys the bold part should make you proud

Noted, but Rooivalk has been extensively tested through kalahari sand storms and heat/cold of the drakensburg and has a hot/high configuration with longer range and slightly larger payload. Rooivalk was not part of your testing and it is a narrow statement that the press is making. Note that Rooivalk was originally being touted as a gunship for TAF in the early 90's but US put hurdles upon hurdles on TAF and prevented the sale to Turkey.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Noted, but Rooivalk has been extensively tested through kalahari sand storms and heat/cold of the drakensburg and has a hot/high configuration with longer range and slightly larger payload. Rooivalk was not part of your testing and it is a narrow statement that the press is making. Note that Rooivalk was originally being touted as a gunship for TAF in the early 90's but US put hurdles upon hurdles on TAF and prevented the sale to Turkey.

among those they evaluated if T-129 perform the best than i think we should give credit where it due ..

 

[denel]

among those they evaluated if T-129 perform the best than i think we should give credit where it due ..

It is ok, I am saying from the limited selection they had, this is their conclusion but they way they have put it as though it is the only one in the world that meets this requirement which is incorrect. That is all I am trying to state here. My team did the telemetric engineering work on the performance for the rooivalk which is why i am highlighting this; that there are others which can match or better what was written.

 

[Readerdefence]

It is ok, I am saying from the limited selection they had, this is their conclusion but they way they have put it as though it is the only one in the world that meets this requirement which is incorrect. That is all I am trying to state here. My team did the telemetric engineering work on the performance for the rooivalk which is why i am highlighting this; that there are others which can match or better what was written.

Hi Denel it might be limited selection as you said due to Pakistan’s financial hiccups or some other reasons may be Rooivalk are not interested to give Pakistan desired technology transfer and credit line which I’m sure Turkey is happy to extend
I might be wrong mate but if you want to put up Rooivalk in the line then there are more capable
Items in the market only problem with Pakistan at the moment is Dosh
Your input will be appreciated
Thank you

 

[polanski]

I believe T-129 is the best selection for Pakistan Army. T-129 is European standard attack helicopter.
T-129 has better radar and targeting Systems than anything China and Russia have. Plus add the weapon package.

If Pakistan has to go for another helicopter than that would be Eurocopter Tiger. This is a costly exercise.

Bear in mind, Turkish Defense Industry is European standard but cost effective. Thanks to the US, Germany, UK and Italy for transferring Technology to Turkey.