Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Kharian_Beast]

Cabatli mate in your opinion and vast knowledge regarding attack helicopters and specifically T-129, is this platform superior to the Eurocopter Tiger? I imagine that this platform will put up heavy competition for ATAK probably even in Pakistani context. The Tiger comes in multiple variants, will T-129 also have different variants?

Thanks in advance.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Can't wait to see these beautiful birds serving Pakistan Army to increase our defences against terrorist and city wide security

 

[Kansu]

Cabatli, This is only p-1. and there will be 3 phases more, so three prototypes more. and so far we could see only p-1. and they say we will receive the first fully operative t-129 in 2013. this date looks a little bit difficult for me. You know, it is design is not a new helo, but with its sub-systems it is a new helicopter. and every new thing has problems. even if we receive the 1. one in 2013, i dont think that it will be pressed to service before 2015.
i think our cobra fleet will keep flying until 2020, i dont know the average engine number per helo for our cobras but as far as i know it is not enough anymore and soon we will live some serious problems with them. especially about spare parts... What do you think?
i hope this 2013 date is true. but i guess we wont be able to fly them fully operational before 2015. and please think about the number of the helo we will manufacture. do you think that our cobra fleet will be able to overcome this long heavy duty.


And there is one more thing, you know cobras we have are perfect for HH- high and hot conditions. but we dont know anything about t-129 endurance and stability limits for our geography. will it be really successful? i have some doubts about it.

And finally, for what purpose do we need these helos? to meet the greek leo 2a6gr model panzers? or to provide support to our commando? to chase and destroy low asimetric threats?

if our intention is to use these helos against terrorist groups, i think they are completely useless. we dont need such complex and expensive systems. thats why my brothers from pakistan shouldnt confuse the aim of the t-129. i think these helos are tank busters of our army.

Best regards
Kansu

 

[Nutuk]

Cabatli mate in your opinion and vast knowledge regarding attack helicopters and specifically T-129, is this platform superior to the Eurocopter Tiger? I imagine that this platform will put up heavy competition for ATAK probably even in Pakistani context. The Tiger comes in multiple variants, will T-129 also have different variants?

Thanks in advance.

If I am allowed to answer before Cabatli. Calling helicopters superior to eachother is sometimes misleading, it all depends on the configuration what the user wants. For instance chosing a basic configuration to reduce costs will give a less capable version than one with full options. The Tiger helicopter has different variants because Germany and France have chosen for their own versions.

It also depends on where you put the priorities, for us it was important to have full control over our attack helicopter, to be able to integrate our own missiles, our own electronics, our own radars. This way we have unique capabilities which we couldn't even get by purchasing Apache longbow blk 3.

So to recap, if Pakistan says we only need a helicopter to get Taliban you only need a basic configuration, even second hand super Cobra's would be more than sufficients (no need to spent lots of money). If the target is to have an attack helicopter of high capability to engage India for instance, you need something better.

 

[cabatli_53]

Cabatli, This is only p-1. and there will be 3 phases more, so three prototypes more. and so far we could see only p-1. and they say we will receive the first fully operative t-129 in 2013. this date looks a little bit difficult for me. You know, it is design is not a new helo, but with its sub-systems it is a new helicopter. and every new thing has problems. even if we receive the 1. one in 2013, i dont think that it will be pressed to service before 2015.

Yes Bro... That's true...It is the first prototype P-1 to perform trials of T-129 transmission systems and powerfull Engines at high snowy mountains.. Atak team will test the electro-optics and weapon payloads with new produced 2nd Prototype...

This is roadway...

i think our cobra fleet will keep flying until 2020, i dont know the average engine number per helo for our cobras but as far as i know it is not enough anymore and soon we will live some serious problems with them. especially about spare parts... What do you think?
i hope this 2013 date is true. but i guess we wont be able to fly them fully operational before 2015. and please think about the number of the helo we will manufacture. do you think that our cobra fleet will be able to overcome this long heavy duty.

Bro, Even If the SSM has described the initial T-129 requirements of Turkish army like 91, You are going to see that This requirements will be increased up to 130-140 T-129 Helo When We started modernizating out AH-1S/P's with T-129 Atak's... We know that The serial modernization of T-129 will be started until 2013 and Until this date, SSM will try to order 10-12 Whisky Cobra helicopters as a stop-gap solution but AH-1P's are obsolete and low capable helos to fight with asymetric warfare threats in S. East geoghraphy of Turkey...

And there is one more thing, you know cobras we have are perfect for HH- high and hot conditions. but we dont know anything about t-129 endurance and stability limits for our geography. will it be really successful? i have some doubts about it.

I do not have any doubt about T-129 and performance at high and hot mountainy areas because It is designed and modified in accordance with the requirements of Turkish army. If you check the mission altitude specifications of T-129 targeted, You are going to see that Not Only AH-1W but also Eurocopter Tiger can not cope with T-129 Atak, When the matter become high and hot mountainy areas...

And finally, for what purpose do we need these helos? to meet the greek leo 2a6gr model panzers? or to provide support to our commando? to chase and destroy low asimetric threats?

Bro, Officials described the missions of T-129 like;
ROLES
• Armed Reconnaissance
• Precision Strike
• Armed Escort
• Fire Support
• Attack
• Suppression of Enemy Air Defence
• Deep Strike
• Security

I mean It is a multi-role attack helicopter... Not only a Tank Killer, But also a good assymetric r@t hunter...

 

[Kansu]

Thanks for the answer Cabatli. but there is one more thing puzzling my mind. A while ago when we asked USA to sell us their used Cobras, they refused us. And this happened when Bush was in charge. They told us that they(marines) needed these helos and they wont be able to give any of them. A few months ago i saw a news, according to the news Turkey and USA reached an agreement for the transfer of the Cobras to Turkey which were still in service.
But i didnt take it serious. You know some defence analysts like Lale sarıibrahimoğlu even wrote that we were buying Mi-28 as stopgap solution. So i dont take there Cobra news' serious since for a long time. Will we really get those helos from USA Marines?

if not, if they will give us used ones like they did in previous years, whats wrong with our own helos?
you know when we took those helos from USA, they gave us reserve helos and the modernisation project was like ressurection of the dead. (for AH-1P's)

Best regards
Kansu

 

[cabatli_53]

Bro,

Even If We order second-hand USA Marine 10-12 AH-1W, There will be 28-30 AH-1S/P obsolete Cobra helicopters in our inventory. When The time comes, Army needs to replace them with new generation T-129's because Even every reportages, Army officials told their complaints about performances of Cobra's in S. East Turkey..

BTW, 10-12 AH-1W needs has been described as a stop-gap solution until T-129's will be operational in Turkish army until 2013-14... You know After Turkish army has performed Gunes Operation against N. Irak to destroy PKK terorist, Only 7 Modern AH-1W Attak helicopter remained in the inventory of Turkish army. This amount is so less for a country which has a population about 72 million and have a threat like PKK so Army needs more AH-1W's. I mean It is not about AH-1P/S replacement and T-129 program...

Regards...

 

[cabatli_53]

T-129 Electronic Warfare Systems

• Countermeasure Dispensing System (CMDS),
• Missile Warning System (MWS),
• Laser Warning Receiver (LWR),
• RF Jammer (RFJ),
• Radar Warning Receiver (RWR),
• Suite Central Processing System (SCPS),
• IR Countermeasures (IRCM).

 

[Kansu]

Kendi lisanımızda yazmayınca böyle şeyler oluyor Hocam. Aslında yukarda used yerine reserve yazmalıydım. bundan kaynaklanan bir sorun oldu. Emeğiniz ve ilginiz için teşekkür ederim Sayın Cabatli.
kendinize iyi bakın.
Kansu


just a small conversation about the my misusing some of the the words. thats all mates

 

[TOPGUN]

How high are the chances for Pak army to get this bird?

 

[Kansu]

How high are the chances for Pak army to get this bird?

i guess it depends on budget. except this, T-129 belongs to Turkey with its everything. if Turkey and Pakistan makes an agreement, pakistan surely may have it. i have no doubt for that.

 

[Kompromat]

i guess it depends on budget. except this, T-129 belongs to Turkey with its everything. if Turkey and Pakistan makes an agreement, pakistan surely may have it. i have no doubt for that.

If ATAK comes Pakistan's way then i must say it is going to be a Killing machine against Terrorists and Indian Armour .

 

[Parashuram1]

Congrats to Turkish members here as this is a very proud development for you all. There is oflate a lot of development in attack helicopter industry all over (Eur)Asia. Let me recap them all one by one and if I am wrong, I would be glad for someone to correct me:

1) Turkey: T-129 ATAK (can be called Eurasia)
2) China: CAIC WZ-10
3) India: HAL LCH

Asia is these days is giving tough competition to European manufacturers of arms and I won't be surprised to see Turkish, Chinese and Indian manufacturers ultimately be the new set of contenders in the near future.

Once again, Congrats to all Turkish people.

 

[Jigs]

If ATAK comes Pakistan's way then i must say it is going to be a Killing machine against Terrorists and Indian Armour .

I wonder if they do choose the T129 which configuration they would go for the TUC-1 or TUC-2.

 

[Kompromat]

I wonder if they do choose the T129 which configuration they would go for the TUC-1 or TUC-2.

Kindly Explain Both
Thanks