Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Arsalan]

anyway more relavant to topic,
what if these rich states invest in system equally potent but made by brother islamic countries,
what if they go for Pakistani Al-Khalid tanks instead of Abmrams,
they must go for T-129 instead of cobras and apaches,

there are may other options as well covering APC, Ships (specially ones with low displacement like missile boats, patrol boats, corvettes)

this will not only bring good name to these equipmen and thus pave wayfor more buyers but it would further strengthen muslim arms inductry and thus we can have more to invest in RnD istead of giving $$ to LM to do the same!

regards!

 

[Jigs]

a real harsh reality but true!!

well for our knowledge, Saudia aArabi have become largest arms importers in thepast years overcomiming everyone else.
the have bought the highest number of arms (value wise), giving business worth billions of dollars to US and west. this is the same money there companies use to develop more and more leathal weapons to be testde in Iraq and Afghanistan.

with dfence spending of billions of dollars, the saudis have not been able to keep Israel at bay, infact they are not even raising voice againt the agression of Israel killing innocent paletineans

Industry is the only way to go. It cuts you dependence on foreign suppliers and that results in you having more say in affairs. If you have no chips to bargain with then no one takes you seriously. SA spending billions on modified U.S. arms for the shake of having a credible defense to Israel only makes them sink even more. Both Turkey and Pakistan understands this when it comes to arms procurement. People don't remember this but even Turkey was arms embargoed by the U.S. during the Cyprus conflict.The ultimate way to control a country is to cripple their arms procurement while they are under possible threat.

 

[Jigs]

anyway more relavant to topic,
what if these rich states invest in system equally potent but made by brother islamic countries,
what if they go for Pakistani Al-Khalid tanks instead of Abmrams,
they must go for T-129 instead of cobras and apaches,

there are may other options as well covering APC, Ships (specially ones with low displacement like missile boats, patrol boats, corvettes)

this will not only bring good name to these equipmen and thus pave wayfor more buyers but it would further strengthen muslim arms inductry and thus we can have more to invest in RnD istead of giving $$ to LM to do the same!

regards!

I think the reason why pakistan is going for U.S. arms is because of the current window of opportunity since Pakistanis assistance is fundamental to the WOT which results in U.S. aid provided to them in return for WOT cooperation. Once the U.S. finishes up the war with Afghanistan things will go back to normal. I also believe though that Pakistan should move quickly into the Turkish defense market. As much as buying arms from the U.S. through aid is good it does not provide anything for the future when it comes to self efficiency.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I think the reason why pakistan is going for U.S. arms is because of the current window of opportunity since Pakistanis assistance is fundamental to the WOT which results in U.S. aid provided to them in return for WOT cooperation. Once the U.S. finishes up the war with Afghanistan things will go back to normal. I also believe though that Pakistan should move quickly into the Turkish defense market. As much as buying arms from the U.S. through aid is good it does not provide anything for the future when it comes to self efficiency.

Agreed, but one of the reason we go for US weapons is their quality and combat effectiveness. We have a superior enemy, and we can counter it with quality and good training.

Plus, if you look at past few years, we are now less dependent on US for some extreme machines, which we can't have from somewhere else.

F-16s are gonna be of US, some new radars, helicopters etc etc.

For other small and big things, we are now looking at own sources as well as other sources, and Turks are one of them.

Erieyes from Sweden, ZDK-03 from China, MBTs made in Pakistan with Chinese and Ukrainian assistance, JF-17s, FC-20s, communication equipment from Turks, EW equipment from different sources, interest in T-129s, UAVs from different sources, weapons from SA etc etc are all major steps showing that Pakistan is less and less going for US equipment.

And hope in future, we go for joint ventures with the Turks, as they are gonna be one hell of a force in future and their weapons systems would itself be one of a class. Through joint ventures we can sell to other countries too and make our own defense forces quiet capable.

 

[Agent X]

Mr. Dreamer, I did not post it to make you saw everything about this news. It is the link of magazine that related news issued in Turkish...

If expecting for a source link is dreaming then being dreamer is a PDF rule anyway i can't understand what's the point of posting magazine homepage link when it say nothing about any deal with India. why aren't posting a link which say India asked for t 129. post the link or accept you was trolling.

You know If you are talking about a willing from Indian side about a strategic system to purchase againt brother Pakistan, It is an obligation for Turkey to inform Pakistani brothers about How Turkey have to act. Otherwise, The PM or minister who wants to export such critical systems to India without issuing any conditions against a brother state is assessed by Turkish nation like digging own grave

Lol that sounds like fear more then brotherhood nevermind india was never interested in t 129 so you don't need to inform them about anything.

T-129 is being developed by ATAK team which TAI, Aselsan and Agusta Westland included into this team. India can not offer anything to this program different than fund. About lethality of Helo, Do not worry about it, Roketsan always performs great job about AT and Anti-personnel missiles...

Ya ya whatever, i said all that just to tell you how stupid your post was when you said i am not happy coz i want tot of t 129 for India......... first prove India showed interest in t 129 then we will discuss tot. your post was nothing but baseless allegation.

Sorry but All those your dreams have nothing to do with the actual point of this thread and not make any sense. I hope DRDO will catch great export success but Neither your success in World, nor development of Akash missiles do not affect any of achievements of Turkish defence industry. I do not know Italian effect over sales but I am just talking about How Turkish side will act, When India wants to deal with Turkey about T-129 Atak. You know It is time tasted.

maaaaaaan i was just telling you the powers who will choose one between pakistan or few billion dollar contract they would be authorities of ur defence industry and your government you won't play any role in their decision you can only guess what they will choose can't say anything for sure can u?

We are taking about likely cooperations about T-129 Atak between Pakistan and Turkey in this thread and As I have told thousands of times that A Turkish defence magazine called MSI issued a news like "India is interested in T-129 ATAK" . That's a reason why We have treated it. After introduced it in this thrad, We made some mind exercises over it. It is you jumped into thread with all those nonsense sentences but Do not worry, There is not any deal in sight.

Go read my previous posts i have more then enough reasons for "jump" in the thread. you were talking about cooperation between turkey and pakistan that's ok but why you were making fun of India? "India bashing Turks" is that a new kind of weapon that Pakistan will get with t 129? no defence magazine published any news regarding India interested in your helicopters it's all your fantasies.

Yes It says something about Indian willing for T-129 Atak...

so post me link of article instead of homepage or you think i know turkish and i will search it out myself right?

Anybody did not bother us but Some facts should have been known by everybody in threads. Even If It is about agreement worth billion $, Turkey CAN NOT export such critical and strategical systems to countries like Armenia, Iran, India against brother countries, Turks have connected with deep historical ties to the countries We call like BROTHER in terms of blood or religious factors.

i have no idea why you pulling this so called "muslim brotherhood" in each and every single post of ur. isn't Iran muslim? yes they are infect they are true muslim in comparison with you. btw don't you have some serious defence deals with Israel who's the biggest enemy of islam according to your religious leaders?

 

[Kompromat]

Tiamikhan please watchout for where my thread is headed to.

 

[cabatli_53]

If expecting for a source link is dreaming then being dreamer is a PDF rule anyway i can't understand what's the point of posting magazine homepage link when it say nothing about any deal with India. why aren't posting a link which say India asked for t 129. post the link or accept you was trolling.

(1)Base of all those sentences are about the source of related sentence.

Lol that sounds like fear more then brotherhood nevermind india was never interested in t 129 so you don't need to inform them about anything.

Yes I need to inform If the subject is about T-129 Atak and potential costumers...

Ya ya whatever, i said all that just to tell you how stupid your post was when you said i am not happy coz i want tot of t 129 for India......... first prove India showed interest in t 129 then we will discuss tot. your post was nothing but baseless allegation.

(2)Base of all those sentences are about the source of related sentence.

maaaaaaan i was just telling you the powers who will choose one between pakistan or few billion dollar contract they would be authorities of ur defence industry and your government you won't play any role in their decision you can only guess what they will choose can't say anything for sure can u?

I am talking about move limits of Turkey tested with time many times. You and I are not same, When it comes to assessments related with Turkiye. You can just look to the events from economic side but I estimate everything about politic, brotherhood, strategic, historical and international relationships of my country. I know the nature, value judgments, religious importance, fidelity factors of my nation and politics very well so Do not mix your analises with mine when the subject become the Turkey and our moves on international arena...

Go read my previous posts i have more then enough reasons for "jump" in the thread. you were talking about cooperation between turkey and pakistan that's ok but why you were making fun of India? "India bashing Turks" is that a new kind of weapon that Pakistan will get with t 129? no defence magazine published any news regarding India interested in your helicopters it's all your fantasies.

(3)Base of all those sentences are about the source of related sentence.

so post me link of article instead of homepage or you think i know turkish and i will search it out myself right?

(4)Base of all those sentences are about the source of related sentence.

i have no idea why you pulling this so called "muslim brotherhood" in each and every single post of ur. isn't Iran muslim? yes they are infect they are true muslim in comparison with you. btw don't you have some serious defence deals with Israel who's the biggest enemy of islam according to your religious leaders?

Because, While Turkey as a secular state is estabishing good mutual strategic relations with some countries, Being a Muslim remains at the forefront of everything(economy, defence industry...etc) and We call such countries like brothers. Except Some Muslim countries, Despite They are not Muslim, We call them like brother cause of some historical reasons as well. It is S. Korea. They are also our blood brothers. Rest can be a good trade partners, good friends, strategic allies...etc but Brotherhood is a littile bit different in our terminology and You can not test it with some economical figures. It is something like You will never get (maybe) so Do not try to describe it with economical point of views...

Source as a response to (1-2-3-4) I hope You know Turkish...

 

[muse]

what if these rich states invest in system equally potent but made by brother islamic countries, what if they go for Pakistani Al-Khalid tanks instead of Abmrams, they must go for T-129 instead of cobras and apaches,

there are may other options as well covering APC, Ships (specially ones with low displacement like missile boats, patrol boats, corvettes)

Why would the Gulf countries do this? Gulf countries need weapons against other Muslims?? Yes, if they belong to the US interests, then yes -

Look the purpose of these weapons is not for use against Israel, but against Iran and/or other Muslim neighbors

Would Pakistan want to sell weapons to one brother Muslim country to use against another brother Muslim country? Would Pakistanis accept that Al-Khalid or JFT is used against other Muslims??

 

[Arsalan]

Why would the Gulf countries do this? Gulf countries need weapons against other Muslims?? Yes, if they belong to the US interests, then yes -

Look the purpose of these weapons is not for use against Israel, but against Iran and/or other Muslim neighbors

Would Pakistan want to sell weapons to one brother Muslim country to use against another brother Muslim country? Would Pakistanis accept that Al-Khalid or JFT is used against other Muslims??

so do you think that is a point that can be left alone, unaddressed??

we cannot sit back and relax saying that well well, actually no Muslim state is going to buy our weapon as they need it for another Muslim state and we wont let this happen?

i think it is the time where we better wake up. the growing aggression of west againt islam, either i be inshape of full scale wars in Afghanistan or Iraq, in terms of ambushes in Pakistan or propaganda of terrorism or emotional warfare of there popes and churches, everyting is poiting to a crusade.
thats what was quoted by bush when they attacked Afghanistan,
if hey want it to be a crusade so let it be, we beter prepare ourself!



regards!

 

[muse]

Arsalan

Give the issue some thought - we do not wish to build weapons and to market weapons just for the sake of building and marketing weapons -- we build and market them with a particular view, a particular vision of what we think promotes a better world.

If as you suggest and with which I fully concur, that the West is not satisfied with the blood it has shed in Muslim majority countries and will directly and through proxies seek to shed much much more blood in Muslim majority countries - and to be fair, neither are those who seek to weaponize, to use religion as a political ideology within Muslim majority countries -- How then should thinking Pakistanis seek to fashion policy?

Well, certainly you will agree that the very first thing Pakistan must do is to tackle the notion that religion can be weaponized by radical political groups - simultaneously, the countries (you know which countries those are - Saudi and Iran) must be engaged politically and publicly to stop using the notion of sects as justification for war.

It's only after the creation of this general understanding, only after creating this public understanding and agreement, that Pakistani policy can fashion a common front which is bolstered by Pakistani arms industry among others.

Our main effort must be political, to create a common understanding, on then can Pakistani arms have a legitimate role to play in foreign policy to create legitimacy.

 

[Arsalan]

Arsalan

Give the issue some thought - we do not wish to build weapons and to market weapons just for the sake of building and marketing weapons -- we build and market them with a particular view, a particular vision of what we think promotes a better world.

If as you suggest and with which I fully concur, that the West is not satisfied with the blood it has shed in Muslim majority countries and will directly and through proxies seek to shed much much more blood in Muslim majority countries - and to be fair, neither are those who seek to weaponize, to use religion as a political ideology within Muslim majority countries -- How then should thinking Pakistanis seek to fashion policy?

Well, certainly you will agree that the very first thing Pakistan must do is to tackle the notion that religion can be weaponized by radical political groups - simultaneously, the countries (you know which countries those are - Saudi and Iran) must be engaged politically and publicly to stop using the notion of sects as justification for war.

It's only after the creation of this general understanding, only after creating this public understanding and agreement, that Pakistani policy can fashion a common front which is bolstered by Pakistani arms industry among others.

Our main effort must be political, to create a common understanding, on then can Pakistani arms have a legitimate role to play in foreign policy to create legitimacy.

sir this is all what we as Pakistanis need to do, the point i was addressing was the cold attitude of the arab and majority of other rich muslim nations.

however, now before black blood shoots me, lets head back to topic...

regards!

 

[Agent X]

I don't think so there is anything i am gonna get from this argument i am asking you for a source of your claim and you are not only avoiding my demand but trying to divert the topic to Muslim brotherhood, cultural links, blood relations and all that which is not at all related to this thread and now this new drama. you have given me a link sourced to your personal account on photobucket. even a 5 year old can make these images there is nothing special just a helicopter with plain text that too in turkish that prove nothing do anyone know how we can use a jpeg image in google translator?

No offense but i already got my answer that you don't have anything to show on your claim i don't wanna waste my time on this thread anymore i think you got your lesson and i hope from next time you won't mention India anywhere until you don't have anything solid to back up your post.

Take care.

 

[cabatli_53]

I don't think so there is anything i am gonna get from this argument i am asking you for a source of your claim and you are not only avoiding my demand but trying to divert the topic to Muslim brotherhood, cultural links, blood relations and all that which is not at all related to this thread and now this new drama. you have given me a link sourced to your personal account on photobucket. even a 5 year old can make these images there is nothing special just a helicopter with plain text that too in turkish that prove nothing do anyone know how we can use a jpeg image in google translator?

Sorry but All those are your problems. It does not interest me If you think Whether a 5 years old child can prepare such an image or You can not translate a jpeg pictures or not. During all discussion, I have already emphasized that there is a Turkish Magazine which issued/reported that India is interested in T-129 Atak helicopters. It is you put your dirty noses into this thread with lots of BS's without knowing anything about subject and accused me with spreading imagination news about India to cry down...bla bla

No offense but i already got my answer that you don't have anything to show on your claim i don't wanna waste my time on this thread anymore i think you got your lesson and i hope from next time you won't mention India anywhere until you don't have anything solid to back up your post.

Take care.

No offense but I think You got What you deserved in this thread. All your dirty discussion with full of pain is based on representing the source of it and I have just posted the page image of related magazine... As an advice, Next time, Before puting your nose into the subjects You do not have any idea about, Try to ask kindly something related informations about subjects instead of attacking on threads with all those nonsense and so called victory announcements.

You have 2 selection to realise the condition you falled in this thread. Try to learn Turkish to get it or If you have time enough, type the alphabets of the Turkish sentences to google translate to learn something related with this thread... Otherwise, Do not waste the times of members with all those nonsense claims...

 

[cabatli_53]

Just Enjoy with a professional magazine page that is prepared by a "5 years old child"...

Sorry but You can not save your day with such an easy discussion style and so called victory announcements, After used such a dirty mouth related with this thread.

End of this story !!!

Turkish Lesson-1 for you;

Hindistan: India
Müşteri Adayı: Likely Costumer
İş Paketi: Work Shares
Talep Etmek: Demand

 

[SEAL]

I don't think so there is anything i am gonna get from this argument i am asking you for a source of your claim and you are not only avoiding my demand but trying to divert the topic to Muslim brotherhood, cultural links, blood relations and all that which is not at all related to this thread and now this new drama. you have given me a link sourced to your personal account on photobucket. even a 5 year old can make these images there is nothing special just a helicopter with plain text that too in turkish that prove nothing do anyone know how we can use a jpeg image in google translator?

No offense but i already got my answer that you don't have anything to show on your claim i don't wanna waste my time on this thread anymore i think you got your lesson and i hope from next time you won't mention India anywhere until you don't have anything solid to back up your post.

Take care.

Actually its your fault you are used to unreliable, poor Indian media and toilet papers,Turkish defence magz are much more reliable.
Cabatli contribution for PDF is well known, if you don't believe him thn g2h.