Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Ahmet Pasha]

Mi28??
Heavier badder Apache like ATAK??

In general lightweight attack helicopters will rely on their self-protection suites, which include flare dispensers and in some cases DIRCM. However, you're not going to get as much innate protection in a 5-ton helicopter like ATAK (or India's LUH) compared to a heavyweight like the Apache.

To me, it seems the PAA wants to use the ATAKs in high-altitude combat environments (a major part of the testing was in relation to that), while get a heavier attack helicopter for anti-armour ops. In terms of the latter, it would've gotten the AH-1Z, but CSF/FMF cuts shut that door, so an alternative is needed.

Personally, I'd try reviving the Rooivalk (i.e. Rooivalk Mk2). It's a rugged design meant to take on conventional and assymmetric threats alike. The airframe is just fine (based on the Puma), but you can swap out the engine for some newer platform, like the Safran Aneto (ITAR-free), and upgrade the electronics and weapons.

Best of all, South Africa was literally offering whoever co-funds the Mk2's development ToT, and I reckon we get the kind that allows us to fully maintain and repair our aircraft, and add new ones at-will.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Mi28??
Heavier badder Apache like ATAK??

Russia = CAATSA. Mi-28NE = Sanctions.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

In general lightweight attack helicopters will rely on their self-protection suites, which include flare dispensers and in some cases DIRCM. However, you're not going to get as much innate protection in a 5-ton helicopter like ATAK (or India's LUH) compared to a heavyweight like the Apache.

To me, it seems the PAA wants to use the ATAKs in high-altitude combat environments (a major part of the testing was in relation to that), while get a heavier attack helicopter for anti-armour ops. In terms of the latter, it would've gotten the AH-1Z, but CSF/FMF cuts shut that door, so an alternative is needed.

Personally, I'd try reviving the Rooivalk (i.e. Rooivalk Mk2). It's a rugged design meant to take on conventional and assymmetric threats alike. The airframe is just fine (based on the Puma), but you can swap out the engine for some newer platform, like the Safran Aneto (ITAR-free), and upgrade the electronics and weapons.

Best of all, South Africa was literally offering whoever co-funds the Mk2's development ToT, and I reckon we get the kind that allows us to fully maintain and repair our aircraft, and add new ones at-will.

We are willing to spend 1.5 billion to buy helicopters but cant put 500 million into a domestic project.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

We are willing to spend 1.5 billion to buy helicopters but cant put 500 million into a domestic project.

To be fair the $1.5b covers the upfront procurement and support cost for some years. It's a cost we would've paid on top of the R&D of a domestic route.

That said, the Army has an opportunity with this controversy to emulate Project Azm. Perhaps settle on a 9-10 ton platform that can support both a transport and attack helicopter, like the ATAK-2/10-ton General Transport Helicopter, or AW149/AW249, or Rooivalk Mk2/Caracal, or even AH-1Z/UH-1Y. Basically, pick an ITAR free project and get its ToT.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Second you guys big time. PAC or Army can make money to cover the development cost as well.

We are willing to spend 1.5 billion to buy helicopters but cant put 500 million into a domestic project.

To be fair the $1.5b covers the upfront procurement and support cost for some years. It's a cost we would've paid on top of the R&D of a domestic route.

That said, the Army has an opportunity with this controversy to emulate Project Azm. Perhaps settle on a 9-10 ton platform that can support both a transport and attack helicopter, like the ATAK-2/10-ton General Transport Helicopter, or AW149/AW249, or Rooivalk Mk2/Caracal, or even AH-1Z/UH-1Y. Basically, pick an ITAR free project and get its ToT.

 

[Hassan Guy]

DEMİR explained that the export permission from the USA for the engines of ATAK helicopters to be exported to Pakistan is continuing and said, “Bureaucratic procedures are continuing. We can't say there's a deliberate delay right now.

https://www.savunmasanayist.com/pakistan-atak-programinda-son-durum-ne/

See, I don't hold a degree in predicting the future of Pakistan's defence acquisitions so I can't make any assumptions.

But I will.

Yes, there is a deliberate delay on the part of the US. Yes there in fact is.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

See, I don't hold a degree in predicting the future of Pakistan's defence acquisitions so I can't make any assumptions.

But I will.

Yes, there is a deliberate delay on the part of the US. Yes there in fact is.

Imagine it was for something random as refusing to pay for the AH-1Zs with national funds... and then it gets real petty where we buy 1 or 2 of them, and then one of them mysteriously crashes/vanishes.

 

[python-000]

Yes, true. Even if Americans block the engine, Turkish engine will be ready in 2 years... and when you think, it would be better to have Turkish engine rather than american, in long run... it would be much more, sanctionproof.

InshAllah my brother...

 

[Yasser76]

To be fair the $1.5b covers the upfront procurement and support cost for some years. It's a cost we would've paid on top of the R&D of a domestic route.

That said, the Army has an opportunity with this controversy to emulate Project Azm. Perhaps settle on a 9-10 ton platform that can support both a transport and attack helicopter, like the ATAK-2/10-ton General Transport Helicopter, or AW149/AW249, or Rooivalk Mk2/Caracal, or even AH-1Z/UH-1Y. Basically, pick an ITAR free project and get its ToT.

Issue is Pak Army attack requirement simply will not justify such a big outlay. Spending billions to make a world class attack chopper and buy just 50 odd?

Better to licence build existing design

 

[nomi007]

Russia = CAATSA. Mi-28NE = Sanctions.

CAATSA or Sanctions also hit Nato Supply
which we can

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Issue is Pak Army attack requirement simply will not justify such a big outlay. Spending billions to make a world class attack chopper and buy just 50 odd?

Better to licence build existing design

I agree. One option is just partnering with Turkey on its programs (esp. engines), or get an existing design on offer with ToT, like Rooivalk.

 

[denel]

I agree. One option is just partnering with Turkey on its programs (esp. engines), or get an existing design on offer with ToT, like Rooivalk.

Agreed and since the platforms of Rooivalk and Oryx helos are the same; upgaded Oryx can also be leveraged to kick start local medium lift capability

 

[time pass]

Putar many other options still present
russain & European engines
Caasta will hit Turkey not us
we are buying these helos by our own many not by usa aid
so we can directly buy American engines

Chacha .....Hold your horses & don't try jump in front of the gun

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Issue is Pak Army attack requirement simply will not justify such a big outlay. Spending billions to make a world class attack chopper and buy just 50 odd?

Better to licence build existing design

30 T-129s for 1.5 billion.i

 

[Great Janjua]

Transfer of technology plus we get information off future updates like T629

30 T-129s for 1.5 billion.i[emoji38]