Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Readerdefence]

Then lets go back to our best buddy

Hi well said sir looks like at the moment that’s the best option and as per jf17 feed back up gradations they must have done with Z10 also
Thank you

 

[mingle]

Sir it means that if production is started so one or another way the engine issue is resolved.

All copies will be delivered 2021-22 as per Ahmed ibrahim tipu twitter which is quite authentic in news

 

[Affanakad0t.]

All copies will be delivered 2021-22 as per Ahmed ibrahim tipu twitter which is quite authentic in news

https://twitter.com/x/status/1184176400238108672

 

[blinder]

See:
https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/co...-team-of-experts-for-the-t625-helicopter-3546

According to this informative article, the TS1400 engine is first being developed for the T625 Gökbey helicopter and can be adapted for the T-129. But, it will be introduced to T625 first, first flight foreseen 2021 and introduced into T625 production in the 2024-25 timeframe...

So, any T-129 Atak delivered before that would still have to be equipped with the LHTEC CTS800 engines, pending US approval of the export license; or am I missing something?

The alternative mentioned in above article, is to go French with SAFRAN Ardiden 1A or Arrano 1A engines. That is a bit awkward as that design lost out to LHTEC to power the T-129 in the first place. Also, this will require testing and integration too, let alone a commercial/contracting phase beforehand.

Do not get me wrong, I am not trying to second-guess Ahmad Ibrahim, just getting the options sorted out

 

[Areesh]

All copies will be delivered 2021-22 as per Ahmed ibrahim tipu twitter which is quite authentic in news

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @HRK @Signalian

How is this possible without USA approval?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1184176400238108672

 

[HRK]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @HRK @Signalian

How is this possible without USA approval?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1184176400238108672

Everything is not clear but my understanding is Turkey is nit stopping the manufacturing of airframe as they might still be hopeful to get the approval for reexport to Pakistan, or there is a possibility that Pakistan might have get the approval for T-129 separately

So whatever the case is we at least have the confirmation about the production of T-129 airframe and BTW Tipu is not the source of this news but some Turkish publication and some of this ur Turkish friends have reported it here first

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Everything is not clear but my understanding is Turkey is nit stopping the manufacturing of airframe as they might still be hopeful to get the approval for reexport to Pakistan, or there is a possibility that Pakistan might have get the approval for T-129 separately

So whatever the case is we at least have the confirmation about the production of T-129 airframe and BTW Tipu is not the source of this news but some Turkish publication and some of this ur Turkish friends have reported it here first

There are currently 3 alternative options on the table.

1. Pakistan buys the CTS800 separately from the US or UK, and then fits them into the T129 at PAC
2. Wait to integrate and test the T129 with a Safran turboshaft engine
3. Wait for the TEI TS1400 turboshaft engine

But IMO... I'd rather keep waiting and actually get in on the ATAK-2. Co-fund the program so that we get co-production (for all units), and induct those in numbers over the long-term.

Not too thrilled about the T129 or Z-10 as they're on the lighter side, and the fact that India could field 100+ similar types (HAL LCH).

I'd rather disrupt the balance and aim for 100+ heavies, if at the cost of a slower and longer-term induction rate. The good thing about the ATAK-2 is that it'll likely use the same engine and dynamic components as Turkey's 10-ton general purpose helicopter. So we can have both an attack helicopter and new mainstay transport helicopter for the next 50 years.

What the PAF is doing is IMO the right approach; shelve off-the-shelf purchases and focus on Project Azm.

Sure, waiting isn't great for forum junkies like us, but to be brutally frank, we're not fighting a war anytime soon and our gov't/mil leadership will duck away from one unless it is thrust upon them by forces out of their control (see the current Kashmir situation).

And if we're going to sit idle, then let's at least invest in programs with far more long-term payoff and deterrence value.

 

[Hexciter]

Sanction would prevent the engines to be used in Turkish helicopter.

Who is asking about your op that no one cares in this forum?

 

[GriffinsRule]

There are currently 3 alternative options on the table.

1. Pakistan buys the CTS800 separately from the US or UK, and then fits them into the T129 at PAC
2. Wait to integrate and test the T129 with a Safran turboshaft engine
3. Wait for the TEI TS1400 turboshaft engine

But IMO... I'd rather keep waiting and actually get in on the ATAK-2. Co-fund the program so that we get co-production (for all units), and induct those in numbers over the long-term.

Not too thrilled about the T129 or Z-10 as they're on the lighter side, and the fact that India could field 100+ similar types (HAL LCH).

I'd rather disrupt the balance and aim for 100+ heavies, if at the cost of a slower and longer-term induction rate. The good thing about the ATAK-2 is that it'll likely use the same engine and dynamic components as Turkey's 10-ton general purpose helicopter. So we can have both an attack helicopter and new mainstay transport helicopter for the next 50 years.

What the PAF is doing is IMO the right approach; shelve off-the-shelf purchases and focus on Project Azm.

Sure, waiting isn't great for forum junkies like us, but to be brutally frank, we're not fighting a war anytime soon and our gov't/mil leadership will duck away from one unless it is thrust upon them by forces out of their control (see the current Kashmir situation).

And if we're going to sit idle, then let's at least invest in programs with far more long-term payoff and deterrence value.

I'd rather have PA being able to field a larger quantity of smaller attack helos then fewer larger ones. T-129 fits that bill very well, similar to our Cobras in service. We need to upgrade those airframes as well as avionics and weapons to make them more potent.

 

[mingle]

I'd rather have PA being able to field a larger quantity of smaller attack helos then fewer larger ones. T-129 fits that bill very well, similar to our Cobras in service. We need to upgrade those airframes as well as avionics and weapons to make them more potent.

US and Turkey are friends again and sanctions are lifted So we will get our Helis.

 

[Dreamer.]

Were there any sanctions when US refused permission for those engines? Stop dreaming of US weapons at every small bit of news that isn't negative.

 

[mingle]

Were there any sanctions when US refused permission for those engines? Stop dreaming of US weapons at every small bit of news that isn't negative.

US has no issue to sell us weapons only issue is payments. Pak can import T129 engines directly from US and install on Heli in Pak.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I'd rather have PA being able to field a larger quantity of smaller attack helos then fewer larger ones. T-129 fits that bill very well, similar to our Cobras in service. We need to upgrade those airframes as well as avionics and weapons to make them more potent.

I was thinking a large number of large ones actually, albeit at the cost of spreading the induction period to a much longer period of time (10-15 years). If we do continue with the T129, I'd allocate them to the areas in need of high-altitude support (create an integrated force using T129s, Fennecs, and a suitable transport helicopter). But for desert and plains, go heavy.

 

[Tipu7]

I interacted with few Turkish officials during Defence Port Turkey Expo. The information I received was,

1: There is no blockade of engines from United States

2: Pakistan has reportedly updated its requirements about T129 twice to thrice in past year, causing the delay.

3: Pakistan T129 are in production line, however, if PA continued to keep updating its requirements then deliveries might delay as far as 2023.

4: Pakistan is overhauling Cobras as stop gap measure.

5: T129 defeated Z10 in rigorous trials in Pakistan.

 

[xbat]

i was wondering what is thrice update? what did you guys want? a spaceship?